Almost painless PAL to M2TS conversion

[billw6560]

I've been finding of late that many of the classic movies I love are not available in the states in Blu-Ray (NTSC) or even DVD at any price. As such, I've been acquiring several from Europe and down under to round out my library. In some rare cases, a few have come from places like Germany at 23.976 fps, so no abnormal conversion is necessary, other than ripping it as a region free file. However, most are in PAL, which does require some timing conversion from its original PAL 25 fps to NTSC 23.976 fps.

Some may suggest to use a one stop shop to do the full video and audio conversion in one stroke, but I've painfully found that these programs generally don't work well, and/or are extremely slow (many hours). Following these simple steps, the conversion portion can be done very quickly in less than 20 minutes.

You'll need three programs. First, rip the Blu-Ray (or DVD) using your normal methods to make it region free. Use a program such as DVDFab, etc. I personally have all my physical Blu-Ray's ripped to my media server at about 6 Mbps, and the resultant copy (~6GB) is more than acceptable, even on a 61" HDTV. That's my preference that works for me, and also makes file management easy. Use what conversion settings and methods you prefer. You will also need tsMuxerGUI and TAudio Converter. Note that these instructions assume that you'll be starting with with M2TS (Blu-Ray) or VOB (DVD) files, and that the embedded audio streams are multi-channel DTS/AC3, or other 1/2 channel formats. I'd suggest outputting to an AC3 stream for compatibility.

Note: If you are converting a DVD, you must first rip it as a single full movie VOB file, then convert it to M2TS using tsMuxerGUI to correct file timing.

A movie in PAL has a frame rate of 25 fps, to match European TV standards. The ripped video is playable on NTSC TV's, but it will playback about 4% faster than normal. The easiest way to convert the PAL video's framerate is to do it in two steps.

1) Using tsMuxerGUI, Demux the video stream first (be sure that ONLY the H.264 video stream checkbox is checked). Note that the H.264 video file has a framerate of 25 fps.



Click on the Change fps: box to 24000/1001 (23.976 fps). Click on the Start demuxing button. This should take < 1 minute. Using tsMuxerGUI for the framerate conversion is the simplest and very fast way. There's no re-encoding. It just changes the frame timing synchronization. Done!

2) Unfortunately, tsMuxerGUI won't do the same to the audio file. Demux the audio file (in this case, it's an AC3 type) (< 30 seconds).

Using TAudio Converter, load up the AC3 file. Fortunately, TAudio Converter is one of the few audio converters that supports multi-channel DTS/AC3 streams for inputs and outputs/converts to AC3, retaining the full multi-channel encoding.

3) Once loaded, the example original PAL audio file shows a time of 1:56, but in actuality, it should be about 2:01. As shown below, to change the timing, click on the Filters button, and the Audio Effects/Filters options box will appear. You need to reduce the "speed" of the audio file by setting the Speed (%): to 95.904 (23.976 fps / 25 fps). In this dialog, you can also set the volume, and if necessary, set the clipping guard ON. Press Start to begin the speed conversion.



Note that you may have to tweak some of the Presets: settings to suit your individual needs. The conversion takes about 2 minutes.

4) Finally, using tsMuxerGUI, add the re-timed H.264 video file, and the converted (AC3) audio file. Select the output file type, such as M2TS. Click on the Start muxing button, and viola, you have a fully converted PAL to NTSC movie.

Again, I've used this method many times for both Blu-Ray's and DVD's, and in most cases, it works as described without additional video or audio conversion steps. I hope this works for you.

Bill

[LigH.de]

The title of your topic is quite nonsensical. PAL is an analogue video broadcasting standard, while M2TS as a digital container format is not at all related to it. The topic you are describing here with again another approach of so many already existing, is the usual inversion of the famous "PAL speedup", and it is not even the technically most advanced approach.

[newpball]

.... it is not even the technically most advanced approach.

Pray tell, what is technically more advanced?

[manono]

That may be a little bit harsh, LigH.de, in my opinion. It's not the way you or I would do it, but I think others may find the guide useful. What caught my eye was this statement:

I personally have all my physical Blu-Ray's ripped to my media server at about 6 Mbps...

Of course, one doesn't 'rip' to 6 Mbps but at whatever the source bitrate was. Apparently he's converting, perhaps using the inferior DVDFab. Since the guide is about slowing Blu-Rays to film speed (why are films on Blu-Ray even being issued at 25fps?) that's not a real criticism and, again, others might find the guide quite useful.

[LigH.de]

First of all, ask yourself: Do you really need any norm conversions in an era when TV sets can easily adapt to all of them?

But if you really intend to reverse a previously applied "PAL Speedup" to get back to the original speed, then use tools which can handle fractions as exact as possible (only 3 decimals are possibly still slightly off after 2 hours of playing time), and which will work with 2-pass normalization instead of arbitrary amplification and clip-fixing. There is a range of known-good tools, from BeSweet over eac3to to BeHappy and related AviSynth based converters like MeGUI.

The "amusing" part here is that people have to buy from the "second hand" market of Europe, whereas Europe used to have to wait for releases until America had their share of profit in earlier decades.

[billw6560]

The title of your topic is quite nonsensical. PAL is an analogue video broadcasting standard, while M2TS as a digital container format is not at all related to it. The topic you are describing here with again another approach of so many already existing, is the usual inversion of the famous "PAL speedup", and it is not even the technically most advanced approach.

With all due respect, when someone offers others help in areas that are seemingly complicated, I just offered one alternative. Obviously, you have your own methods, and you're free to use whatever means necessary to achieve whatever file conversion methods you choose. However, what applies to you, doesn't apply to everyone. Now some feedback:

1) My post was intended to offer one option, not THE one and only option for a simple "PAL" to "NTSC" file conversion.

2) I noted "PAL" merely as a "term" to denote the European standard framerate at 25 fps. Most people recognize that PAL media is not playable in most US video players, and as such, must be converted for proper playback. Digital video media in Europe can be called many things. I just chose "PAL" to denote that, as compared to the US "NTSC" standards.

3) I'm sorry you didn't read between the lines. My title references to PAL and M2TS was a typo, and should have said "PAL to NTSC".

4) As I said up front, the initial "ripping" and conversion bitrate is to suit MY needs to store and playback media streaming from my media server. I have a very large library of movies, which I starting over 30 years ago, and have progressively updated my library since then. Because of that, I choose to convert most of my digital library to a file size and bitrate that's suitable for streaming to my PS3 and WD Live. If I want to watch a full blown Blu-Ray, I'll pull out the physical disk and play it then. I just made mention to this step and my methods as information that may be useful to others. DVDFab, while not the best or only "ripper" does what I need, and does it well for MY purposes, namely to either convert a Blu-Ray (M2TS) to a suitable bitrate, or to create a single DVD (VOB) file.

But if you really intend to reverse a previously applied "PAL Speedup" to get back to the original speed, then use tools which can handle fractions as exact as possible (only 3 decimals are possibly still slightly off after 2 hours of playing time), and which will work with 2-pass normalization instead of arbitrary amplification and clip-fixing.

There is a range of known-good tools, from BeSweet over eac3to to BeHappy and related AviSynth based converters like MeGUI.

5) Wow, simple math says that 24000/1001 = 23.97602398 fps / 25 fps = 95.9040959%. If you can really detect 0.0001% (95.9041%) than so be it. The frame rate difference between video and audio that I described as 95.904% is more than adequate and accurate enough. I've converted may "PAL" videos and have found NO discernible lead-lag in video to audio timing.

6) The audio tools you mentioned may be good, but I made mention of TAudio Converter, as it's simple to use, and adequate for the task at hand.

7) Finally, there's always a debate regarding the type of "container" for digital video media. You mentioned MeGUI, which I've used in the past, but I find it slow, and most importantly, only outputs in MKV format, which is incompatible in many video players and smart TV's. For my library, I've standardized on the M2TS format, as it is the MOST compatible of all video formats (Blu-Ray's are only mastered in M2TS format). Again, this is MY choice, as I also acknowledge that others may play/stream movies on their PC's or Mac's, so the container type is of their choosing. I could go on about all the other types I use, but that's not for this discussion.

In closing, I'm sorry you find that dissing someone for trying to help others is useful fodder to disseminate in this wonderful forum. I'm all for discussion or debate, but negativity isn't productive. We're discussing a hobby, not some global conflict.

Cheers!

[LigH.de]

My bad. I am sorry for replying in a bad mood, so it sounded like "dissing" rather than pointing out improvable technical aspects. Blame is on me.

I already wondered about 3), that was the reason why I suspected little technical knowledge...

2) surprises me a bit, modern HD TV sets should be able to adapt to most common frame rates. But it is indeed possible that devices sold in Europe are more versatile than some sold in America. I remember that only European DVD players will support MPEG2 audio, which was not even common here.

5) is your point. Rounding is indeed quite exact to 3 digits in this case.

7) is not completely true, MeGUI can multiplex to a variety of containers; different devices support different formats, MKV is already quite common, MP4 too ... but (M2)TS is the closest to DVB, therefore some devices may prefer it easily.

Just 6) I would challenge. Amplifying with an arbitrary factor + clip fixing will objectively have a worse quality than normalizing = calculating the maximum amplification factor which will just even avoid clipping. I hope you can find such a feature in TAC, would be a pity if it didn't offer that.

Finally, the pure need to reverse a PAL speedup is surprising to me. Most material was first produced in America, so it started already with 24 fps Film, slightly tuned to 24/1.001 fps "NTSC Film". Are such classics not available there anymore, so they must be re-imported from Europe, where they have been speed-up?

[billw6560]

OK LigH.de, when I wrote my tutorial, it was 2 AM in the morning before I finished it, so there were some typos in there, so I understand the "mood". Thanks.

I'm quite aware of European TV standards, where I've traveled extensively in Western Europe on both business and pleasure. Before digital TV's came around, PAL analog TV's were to my eyes a little hard to get used to, with the 25/50Hz refresh rate. I could certainly notice the flicker. You were also fortunate to have a pseudo widescreen format, EDTV long before we ever saw it here in the States, but you were also plagued with multiple TV standards, usually dictated by country. Yes, we're a little slower to adopt new standards, but you also have to admit that whatever the government approves, has to apply to all 300 million of us, not to mention the financial impact these kind of changes cost.

As for movies in general, I've found an interesting dilemma in how movies and released and distributed between the US and everywhere else markets, mostly having to do with licensing. The list is short, but there have been many titles that were released in Europe in Blu-Ray, but not in the US. One recent example is the movie Hellfighters with John Wayne. I can get it in DVD here, but it's not available in BD. I got a PAL copy out of Sweden of all places, hence the need for conversion. I'd buy an NTSC version here, but the studios just are not open to these BD releases of mostly classic films. In some cases, even movies like The Great Imposter with Tony Curtis is not available in the US in any digital format (other than old VHS tapes). I got a DVD out of GB, and it too needed conversion. The price one pays for entertainment. I'm also certain that there are many titles available here that are not available in Europe. I'm convinced that much of these issues are not just the studios, but also the estates of some of the stars in these movies, not wanting to release these titles for whatever reasons (i.e, money, rights, etc.).

Releasing these classic titles in BD in the US, especially when a studio is not directly involved, is a real BIG deal. A recent BD release of the original Journey to the Center of the Earth was issued by an independent "studio" under license. It was apparently a 4K remaster, but many of these "special" titles are sold in very limited numbers (usually 3,000 copies). I think you can look it up on Amazon, and find that it's selling for about $100 USD, which is outrageous to me. I actually found a normal BD release of this 2 years ago out of Australia. It's looks pretty good, especially compared to the terribly mastered DVD, and that BD only cost me $20.

As for TV's, I actually have a 42" widescreen Hitachi plasma (HD?) TV (as a 2nd TV) designed for world wide use. It's supports all worldwide analog standards, but no digital ones. I had to get a WD Live video player and a digital broadcast TV converter to make it useful. What's odd about this one, is that it's native resolution is 1200x1200 pixels! However, if you look closely, the "pixel's" are rectangular by about a 2:1 ratio. The TV does the multi-system conversions, and interpolates the required image to fit the 16:9 physical size of the screen. Although it "supports" 1080i, it's too fuzzy, but it does look good at 720p (almost native anyway).

Video players in Europe are also somewhat readily available to support multiple video formats, again because of the nature of the various European standards. However in the US, they are hard to come by, probably less than 1% support standards other than NTSC (60Hz), and most of those are special order imports. Fortunately (or unfortunately) we use a single standard in the US, of course, in the digital TV world now, just about anything is possible.

As for PAL conversion, it's real interesting that the Swedish BD of Hellfighters states in print on the BD back cover a run time of 1 Hour 55 Minutes. Untouched, this is the playing time reported by VLC. The movie played, but the sound was obviously higher pitched. But in actuality, the correct (released) run time is 2 hours, 2 minutes (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=off&q=Hellfighters+run+time). When I did my conversion, the 24 fps file was in fact ~2:02. I don't know about NTSC to PAL (24>25fps) conversions, but my guess is that the framerate of these original 24 fps movies have to be converted up to 25 fps to make them compatible with playback on analog PAL TV's (video players running through an RF converter, etc.).

In the case of Hellfighters, where the BD was released in Europe, apparently unmodified, other than to change the digital frame rate to 25 fps, does this actually playback at "normal" speed, even though the stated run time is faster? I have no direct knowledge of how NTSC to PAL converted media plays back on a PAL system. I suppose, it does by displaying the video image 4% slower due to the slower frame rate (50 Hz vs 60 Hz).

Also a little side note about MKV. It's nice open sourced container, but it's just not that compatible. Yes, most current generation smart TV's and some BD players support it, but not all. What doesn't, requires transcoding to play it back. My Sony PS3 doesn't support it. I use the PS3 for my primary DLNA player for streaming movies from my media sever. Transcoding is ugly, and takes a lot of bandwidth and a fast media server to handle it. I've tried and fought with it for years, but as I previously said, I just gave up and standardized on M2TS for the majority of my library. I sometimes convert to AVI (using Xillisoft Ultimate Converter), which I use primarily when I have to resize a movie or if I need to add hard embedded subtitles. While we're on the subject, I also use VidCoder and Handbreak when the need arises for special circumstances, but these too only support MKV and MP4 (MP4 isn't very useful though, because it's an old 16 bit format, and if the file gets over 4GB in file size, it not compatible on many systems).

One final note about volume and clipping. I just noted it in my "example" because the mono track on Hellfighters was very low in volume. As a matter of course, if a soundtrack needs some quality editing, I have many pro audio tools available to me, such as Sound Forge (BTW, when I'm not working my "day" job as an automotive electronics test engineer, I'm also a recording engineer in my spare time). In this very specific case, the adjustments I did for this low bitrate mono soundtrack in TAudio worked acceptably.

Mit besten Grüßen,
Bill

[manono]

In the case of Hellfighters, where the BD was released in Europe, apparently unmodified, other than to change the digital frame rate to 25 fps, does this actually playback at "normal" speed, even though the stated run time is faster?

The usual method of converting from film to PAL is by speeding up both the video and audio by a little over 4%. So, yes, it really does play faster and the audio is often a semi-tone higher throwing any music off-pitch. There are other ways of making the conversion but this is the method most commonly used.

Transcoding is ugly, and takes a lot of bandwidth and a fast media server to handle it.

With Plex installed on my computer, a PS3 plays back MKVs smoothly and well. It gets transcoded. I don't know for sure if Plex will help you in your particular situation, but there are lots here that use it and like it. I like it a lot.

[billw6560]

With Plex installed on my computer, a PS3 plays back MKVs smoothly and well. It gets transcoded. I don't know for sure if Plex will help you in your particular situation, but there are lots here that use it and like it. I like it a lot.

Thanks for the tip on Plex. I've tried many different media servers, like Tversity, but I've standardized on two, Mezzmo (purchased) and PS3 Media Server (free). Both work quite well with the PS3, however, any media server that stream's to the PS3 (and probably the PS4) must transcode an MKV type because it's not natively supported by the PS3. The PS3 supports most AVCHD and mpeg formats, but not MKV. I use the PS3 on my main HDTV, a Samsung 61" DLP. I previously mentioned the WD Live media player that's connected to my 42" Hitachi, but that box does support MKV, so no transcoding is necessary there. I'll look at Plex, just to see what it does and how well it works with the PS3, as neither Mezzmo or PS3MS are perfect.