Stuttering after editing the video

[djavh]

Hello, I imagine, that my question will certainly sound silly to professionals, but I can't figure out a solution myself. So, I made some animations with ToonBoom Studio 5. I animated at 12 FPS. The video exported from TB studio is smooth and everything looks great, but every time when I edit it with a video editing software and save the movie to my computer, you can clearly see micro stuttering every half a second or so. (you can see it in this video: http://youtu.be/VIQgKTRmTnQ ). I tried to edit with Pinnacle Studio 16 and CyberLink Power Director11, but the end result is the same. I imagine the problem is the different FPS in videos, since the video exported from ToonBoom is in 12FPS, and editing programs save the movie in 25 FPS. I tried several options in editing programs (saved the movie in 24, 25, 60 FPS), but the stutter is still there. I read a lot of stuff searching for an answer to this, and i found out, that choosing 60 FPS should prevent the problem for some reason, but it does not. The stutter looks the same every time, doesn't matter what options I chose. So, is there any way to make an animation at 12FPS, and get the smooth looking movie after editing it? None of the editing software that I own have the option to export video at 12 FPS. Or maybe the problem is not because of different FPS?
Thank you

[smrpix]

You're the only one that can see it, and as the animator, it is no doubt driving you crazy. Yes it really is there. The issue is most likely the 12fps to 25fps conversion. Can you output as true 24fps? (Not 23.97, not 24->25) That should clear it up.

But folks are looking at the story and the drawings -- not an extra 3rd frame every 1/2 sec.

[jagabo]

I can see it. The problem is the conversion from 12 fps to 25 fps. Each frame is repeated twice to make 24 fps. Except every 12th frame (once a second) which is repeated 3 times to make 25 fps. What you need to do is increase the base frame rate from 12 to 12.5 fps so that each frame is repeated 2 times to make 25 fps. Of course, you'll need to speed up the audio too.

The problem may be further exacerbated by playing on a monitor with 60 Hz refresh.

[smrpix]

If ToonBoom Studio exports a flash .swf file, it can be wrapped in a .mov container and uploaded to YouTube at 12fps. Don't know if that will affect your audio sync.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXYKi_cmPtM&feature=youtu.be

(This was created in Flash -- thanks to CAF Redtail Squadron for the stolen airplane.)

[jagabo]

If ToonBoom Studio exports a flash .swf file, it can be wrapped in a .mov container and uploaded to YouTube at 12fps.

But won't youtube convert it to 25 or 30 fps? Resulting in exactly the same problem.

[djavh]

OK, so please tell me, how do you wrap it in a .mov container? The stuttering on youtube would be not a big problem, the main thing for me is to have a smooth video in my computer.

[smrpix]

If ToonBoom Studio exports a flash .swf file, it can be wrapped in a .mov container and uploaded to YouTube at 12fps.

But won't youtube convert it to 25 or 30 fps? Resulting in exactly the same problem.

The video I posted re-downloads as 12, surprised me too.

[smrpix]

OK, so please tell me, how do you wrap it in a .mov container? The stuttering on youtube would be not a big problem, the main thing for me is to have a smooth video in my computer.

From their website:
1. In Storyboard select Menu > File > Export to Movie.
2. Select QuickTime Movie (*.mov) and select Options.

.mov is a common container for .swf so even though I've never used toonboom it makes sense it's an option.

[jagabo]

I tried to edit with Pinnacle Studio 16 and CyberLink Power Director11, but the end result is the same.

Can't you set them to a 12 fps project?

[djavh]

OK, so please tell me, how do you wrap it in a .mov container? The stuttering on youtube would be not a big problem, the main thing for me is to have a smooth video in my computer.

From their website:
1. In Storyboard select Menu > File > Export to Movie.
2. Select QuickTime Movie (*.mov) and select Options.

.mov is a common container for .swf so even though I've never used toonboom it makes sense it's an option.

Oh, I misunderstood. Yeah, I did that. Exported the video in almost every format possible, but the end result is the same. The video I posted was exported as quick time movie. The exported file is fine. Everything goes to crap after editing and saving it as a movie in Pinnacle studio. This really bothers me, because a lot of animators from youtube animate their videos in 12, 15 or 18 FPS. But their videos are smooth. I asked some of them the same question, just waiting for an answer now.

[djavh]

I tried to edit with Pinnacle Studio 16 and CyberLink Power Director11, but the end result is the same.

Can't you set them to a 12 fps project?

Well as long as I now, there is no such option in there. You can choose between 24 and 60. And the stutter is there no matter which one I choose.

[jagabo]

If Studio and Power Director won't all you to specify a 12 fps project you'll have to find something else that does.

[djavh]

If Studio and Power Director won't all you to specify a 12 fps project you'll have to find something else that does.

Well, yes. Maybe you have some suggestions?

[smrpix]

Vegas Movie Studio and Premiere Pro can do it. You'll have to manually modify the project settings, I bet Pinnacle can too, but I don't have a copy to try.

[budwzr]

This is one of the little nuances that separates the chaff from the wheat in budget NLE's.

If there's no upgrade path, like Vegas, you end up losing your investment. But it's understandable because a lot of people "don't know, what they don't know".

Animations are typically done at the bare minimum framerate because the cels had to be drawn by hand in the early years. And that was labor intensive. So it was a cost cutting measure.

Nowadays, there's no good reason to not just use smoother framerates, unless you want to recreate the nostalgic look of cartoons.

When you render to double the framerate, you've got to halve the playback speed. It's called undercranking. So you need an NLE that supports that.

[jagabo]

I bet Pinnacle can too

I agree. Keep in mind that some codecs don't support "odd" frame rates. MPEG 2 for example can't encode at 12 fps. So don't use a DVD template.