PAL to NTSC Conversation

[MI6]

I have PAL DVD Video Disc and I want to convert to NTSC. I believe there is so many ways to do this, but I look for easyest one with same quality of course.
Regards.

[hech54]

easyest one with same quality

TOO funny.

[jman98]

This is the only method that doesn't involve re-encoding and thus won't change the quality. However, as it relies on some trickery, some DVD players have been reported to not play such discs. It's quick and easy so you can try it, but if it doesn't work, you'll have to re-encode and you will lose some quality, even if only a little. You'll also lose menus if you have to re-encode.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/166266-PAL-NTSC-DVD-Conversion-%28patch-method%29

[manono]

Just use AVS2DVD. But you won't get back the original menus.

And if you're really in Macedonia, why would you even want to do this? Just as an exercise?

[jman98]

And if you're really in Macedonia, why would you even want to do this? Just as an exercise?

I wondered too, but after 9 years of membership and over 120 posts I figured MI6 is probably converting a DVD to send to a friend in the USA or Canada.

[MI6]

Thanks for the answers.
I want to send wedding copy to my friends in Canada.
Regards.

[Hikmet]

easyest one with same quality

TOO funny.

This is not funny. I can convert same quality. If you can't, then never to make fun anybody.

[smrpix]

I can convert same quality.

Please post some short samples.

[Hikmet]

I don't encode DVD movie anymore. But, this is my old work. DVD to XVid conversion...

Die Hard 4: Die Hard 4.avi

[jagabo]

I can convert same quality.

Die Hard 4:
[Attachment 18119 - Click to enlarge]

Now post the MPG source and we can point out all the quality loss. Even without the source I can easily see a lot of macroblocking and DCT ringing artiracts. And the resolution loss.

[smrpix]

I was also asking to see how you were maintaing the same quality across a framerate conversion. Did you simply do a 24->25 fps speedup?

[Hikmet]

I don't have this DVD anymore. But I encode new example now. DVD to H264...

Sintel (Open Source Short Animation Film):


MPEG-2 Source: Sintel - DVD Sample.mpg

H264 (Fix Aspect Ratio and Crop): Sintel - H264 Sample.mp4

[jagabo]

Hech54's statement, though not well expressed, was that any time you compress with a lossy codec you will get some loss of quality. Here are 2x enlargements (point resize) of crops from frame 85 of your Sintel videos:



As you can see the recompressed video (on the bottom) has lost lots of small and low contrast details. The brown pattern on the floor is messed up. The fine details on the wood are gone. Some caused by resizing, some caused by compression.

[Hikmet]

Hech54's statement, though not well expressed, was that any time you compress with a lossy codec you will get some loss of quality. Here are 2x enlargements (point resize) of crops from frame 85 of your Sintel videos:


[Attachment 18126 - Click to enlarge]

As you can see the recompressed video (on the bottom) has lost lots of small and low contrast details. The brown pattern on the floor is messed up. The fine details on the wood are gone. Some caused by resizing, some caused by compression.

No, source video Aspect ratio is invalid and I downscale video for fix aspect ratio. True Aspect Ratio is "2:35.1", not "16:9". That is to say, this is not encode problem.

And, you want watch this video, or you want edit this video? If control frame by frame with "magnifying glass", certainly find differences. But I want watch this movie, and if when watch this video cannot catch differences, then this is enough. If I want edit this video frame by frame, then I cannot compress...

Goal is same watch quality and decrease video file size... Like JPEG images. If I want show image, then use JPEG; but if I want edit this image (example Photoshop, 3D program etc.) then use PNG, TGA or TIFF.

[smrpix]

Goal is same watch quality and decrease video file size...

If it's good enough for you-- happy viewing. It's not what you claimed.

[Noahtuck]

LOL!!

That just cracks me up!!

I can encode with the same quality then talks about converting to Xvid!!

I figured at least he was talking about DVD to DVD!

Ahhh... the blind leading the blind......

[Hikmet]

Goal is same watch quality and decrease video file size...

If it's good enough for you-- happy viewing. It's not what you claimed.

Then you cannot use MPEG-2, H264/AVC or another compressed video type. If you want full quality, use uncompressed video and have hundreds GB file size. Good luck.

First, you research why use compressed images? Why we cannot use uncompressed video, insted of use compressed codecs. What is goal? Goal is same: Small file size and small bandwidth and good watch quality, goal is not lossless result.

[Hikmet]

LOL!!

That just cracks me up!!

I can encode with the same quality then talks about converting to Xvid!!

I figured at least he was talking about DVD to DVD!

Ahhh... the blind leading the blind......

This is same thing. Change FPS and encode MPEG-2/VOB.

And, this is MPEG-2/VOB version for malice persons...

25 to 30 fps, VOB (No Scale, No Aspect Ratio Fix, and no spend time best FPS conversion) : Sintel - DVD Sample.vob

[jagabo]

And, this is MPEG-2/VOB version for malice persons...

25 to 30 fps, VOB (No Scale, No Aspect Ratio Fix, and no spend time best FPS conversion) :
[Attachment 18134 - Click to enlarge]

It plays with 5 little jerks every second. Some NTSC DVD players will not play the 720x576 frame size properly. And it has more DCT ringing artifacts.

The OP will not be able to convert PAL DVD to NTSC DVD with "the same quality". There will be some quality loss from recompression and resizing to 720x480. If he does it right the losses will be minimal and maybe he wont even notice. But there will be losses.

[Hikmet]

And, this is MPEG-2/VOB version for malice persons...

25 to 30 fps, VOB (No Scale, No Aspect Ratio Fix, and no spend time best FPS conversion) :
[Attachment 18134 - Click to enlarge]

It plays with 5 little jerks every second. Some NTSC DVD players will not play the 720x576 frame size properly. And it has more DCT ringing artifacts.

The OP will not be able to convert PAL DVD to NTSC DVD with "the same quality". There will be some quality loss from recompression and resizing to 720x480. If he does it right the losses will be minimal and maybe he wont even notice. But there will be losses.

If we cannot notice difference when watch, then result is same quality. This DVD data isn't same as original film source. Compressed MPEG-2 encoder and some data loss, but we don't notice this loss. And if we be able to re-encode this video properly and cannot notice differences when watch, then no quality loss. This is miracle of eyes, or maybe weakness of eyes. And all compressed encoders works based this principle. Data loss, but when watch cannot notice that loss. If source video is quality, then re-encoded video will be quality.

No Scale, No Aspect Ratio Fix, and no spend time best FPS conversion

This convert operation is fast and no spend time. Only example...

[jagabo]

If we cannot notice difference when watch, then result is same quality.

Compared to the MPG source, all your encodings had defects that I could see at normal playback speed. That's not to say they are unwatchable. If I wanted to see those movies and your reencoded videos were all I had access to, I'd watch them. I have watch many lower quality videos (especially foreign TV shows).

The OP has no choice. If he wants to make a proper NTSC DVD from his PAL DVD he'll have to reencode. There's no avoiding the small quality loss.

[Hikmet]

I haven't some times in this days. I have some free time at today, and I convert my example to NTSC vob (720x480, best 29.976 fps convertion):

Sintel NTSC.vob

[jagabo]

Terrible blended frames. And you've messed up the aspect ratio. It would be better to resize to 720x480, encode at 25 fps progressive, and add 3:2:3:2:2 pulldown flags. Or slow the video to 23.976, resize to 720x480, encode progressive with normal 3:2 pulldown flags, then slow the audio to match.

[Hikmet]

Why don't you explain to the OP how you did the conversion. The rest of us already know how.

This is not hard, it is easy.


This is AviSynth script for FPS conversion (Use DGDEncode plugin. Open mpeg/vob with "DGIndex" and save "D2V" project):

source = MPEG2Source("G:\_FILMLER\Yapilmis\Yabanci\Sintel - DVD Sample.d2v")

ConvertFPS( source, 29.976 )  # Convert FPS

And re-encode MPEG2/VOB. I used XMedia Recode with "2-pass".

Terrible blended frames. And you've messed up the aspect ratio. It would be better to resize to 720x480, encode at 25 fps progressive, and add 3:2:3:2:2 pulldown flags. Or slow the video to 23.976, resize to 720x480, encode progressive with normal 3:2 pulldown flags, then slow the audio to match.

This is source video's aspect ratio. Please don't be troll. True aspect ratio is "2.35:1". If you want correct, then will correct.

[Noahtuck]

..

[manono]

This is not hard, it is easy.

If it's so easy, why can't you do it correctly? Look, you're in PAL land. There's no reason you should understand NTSC specs, pulldown, resizing for NTSC, and the other things, and know how to do them properly. You've recently arrived here to Videohelp.com and many of your posts have been helpful to others. But on this subject you still have a lot to learn.

source = MPEG2Source("G:\_FILMLER\Yapilmis\Yabanci\Sintel - DVD Sample.d2v")
ConvertFPS( source, 29.976 ) # Convert FPS

Of all the ways to convert from PAL to NTSC, this is perhaps the worst. jagabo already explained the two best methods.

This is source video's aspect ratio.

No, it's not. compare the black bars in the source with the amount of bars in your 'conversion'. There's way too little. Yes, this is animation so it's not so easy to tell, but your people will be too tall and slender. Round things will be ovals.

[jagabo]

True aspect ratio is "2.35:1"

Yes, and you stretched it vertically into an NTSC video that's about 1.88:1.

[Hikmet]

This is not hard, it is easy.

If it's so easy, why can't you do it correctly? Look, you're in PAL land. There's no reason you should understand NTSC specs, pulldown, resizing for NTSC, and the other things, and know how to do them properly. You've recently arrived here to Videohelp.com and many of your posts have been helpful to others. But on this subject you still have a lot to learn.

source = MPEG2Source("G:\_FILMLER\Yapilmis\Yabanci\Sintel - DVD Sample.d2v")
ConvertFPS( source, 29.976 ) # Convert FPS

Of all the ways to convert from PAL to NTSC, this is perhaps the worst. jagabo already explained the two best methods.

This is source video's aspect ratio.

No, it's not. compare the black bars in the source with the amount of bars in your 'conversion'. There's way too little. Yes, this is animation so it's not so easy to tell, but your people will be too tall and slender. Round things will be ovals.

If you want change video size, then, you scale video, or crop video. Right? I crop, if you want, delete black bars, correct aspect ratio and add black bars again.

This video is released two format: DVD and HD H264. Original DVD video's aspect ratio is false. Video's true aspect ratio is "2:35.1" (no black bars). I use this video, because "Open Source".

This is example video. This is not final product. Aim is show video quality (when watch) don't change when convert FPS. Yes, data lost, but don't lost visual quality (or maybe lost little little little, depends on encoder and configurations). OK.

This is final result when fix aspect ratio:




If fix aspect ratio, then someone say you scale video, if not fix aspect ratio, then someone say your aspect ratio is false. Make happy all people is impossible.

[jagabo]

And you still have the aspect ratio wrong for NTSC DVD.

[manono]

Make happy all people is impossible.

Not if you do it correctly. This time you made it about 2.88:1. And it looks 1:1 to me, rather than 16:9. That's not how the image as stored on the NTSC DVD should look. It should probably look something like this: