640 x 480 to DVD

[santiam]

I have some MP4 clips in 640 x 480 that I would like to burn to DVD. When I convert the clips to 720 or 704 x 480, however, MPEG DVD Wizard adds black bars to the top and bottom of the frame.

Is there a way to fill the entire screen on an old standard def TV without losing quality (using any program)? Thanks.

[manono]

When I convert the clips to 720 or 704 x 480, however, MPEG DVD Wizard adds black bars to the top and bottom of the frame.

Then don't use MPEG DVD Wizard. This assumes you're using it correctly, and I'm not at all convinced you're doing so. Are you, for example, encoding for 16:9 when you should be encoding for 4:3?

Is there a way to fill the entire screen on an old standard def TV...

Yes, easily. Try AVS2DVD and make sure you encode for 4:3. If you then see the black bars afterwards, you have your DVD player set up incorrectly.

...without losing quality

No.

[DB83]

When you say 'convert' was that 'conversion' done before adding the video to Mpeg DVD Wizzard. That would explain the black bars since your video 720(or 702) is no longer 4:3.

If the converion was done withing the program you have to retain the aspect ratio else, again, you do not have 4:3 video.

You are somewhat confused by the fact that the dvd storage aspect ratio is 720*480 but there is no need to convert to that. If you do then you MUST ensure that the AR is still 4:3.

[deadrats]

i'm a bit confused by the answers to this question, dvd-spec mpeg-2 for ntsc must be 720x480 or 704x480 for full D1, if the source is 640x480 of course any app that is fed that source is going to have to add black bars to the top and bottom to pad the 640 to 720 (i'm assuming it's adding 40 pixels to the top and 40 pixels to the bottom).

that's what you want done, how else do you propose to make a dvd compliant mpeg-2 out of a 640x480 mp4?

[manono]

if the source is 640x480 of course any app that is fed that source is going to have to add black bars to the top and bottom to pad the 640 to 720 (i'm assuming it's adding 40 pixels to the top and 40 pixels to the bottom).

Are you having a blonde moment? 640 is the width. You stretch the width to 720 (or 704, depending). You leave the height alone. No bars on top or bottom. After encoding as 4:3 it plays at the 'original' aspect ratio of 1.33:1. Just have a look at any resizer from 1:1 AVI/MP4/whatever to 720x480 for DVD. Maybe one such as FitCD:

[deadrats]

lol, of course you're right, for some reason i mixed up the height and width, duh.

[Brad]

Should be 704 or 704 + black padding on either side as opposed to a resize to 720, technically... (as in your shot)

[Cornucopia]

Not necessarily.

Scott

[Brad]

Oh.

[santiam]

..

[santiam]

Then don't use MPEG DVD Wizard. This assumes you're using it correctly, and I'm not at all convinced you're doing so. Are you, for example, encoding for 16:9 when you should be encoding for 4:3?

Yes, when I converted to 720/704 x 480 I was encoding for 4:3. And I did not convert the video before importing to MPEG DVD Wizard. I imported the original video.

You are somewhat confused by the fact that the dvd storage aspect ratio is 720*480 but there is no need to convert to that. If you do then you MUST ensure that the AR is still 4:3.

I also tried burning the original 640 x 480 video to DVD, and it played with no black bars at the top/bottom. It was badly off-center to the left, however, and had a lot of empty black space on the right side.

Possibly my DVD player is set up incorrectly. What settings should I be looking for? Thanks.

[sanlyn]

A 640x480 square-pixel original is encoded at 720x480 (or 704x480) and the encoded DAR is 4:3. On a 16:9 display, the DVD will play 4:3 with side pillars. On an older 4:3 TV the video will play at full-screen 4:3 without pillars. 4:3 DVD's have always been encoded this way, since forever.

I don't understand this ridiculous obsession with completely filling a 16:9 display with any and every video regardless of the video's original aspect ratio. Hollywood doesn't even make 1:33:1 movies (they are usually 1:35:1). Nor does Hollywood make 16x9 movies, except for TV. There's no Hollywood movie made, from SuperWide Panavision or Cinerama down to 16mm nearly-square silent film, that will completely populate a 16X9 TV screen. Your disc player and TV will make the adjustments and add the proper borders, provided you haven't tried to outwit the standards in your encoding.

[enim]

I have some MP4 clips in 640 x 480 that I would like to burn to DVD.

MP4 clip been re-sized to 640 x 480 without black bar to force encoder to allocate all bit-rate to moving/motion pictures. Rough guess for 640 x 480 size Display Aspect should be 4:3 (if it is 640 x 360 then DAR= 16:9) assuming square pixels. No need to tinker around aspect-ratio. its been already suggested.

When I convert the clips to 720 or 704 x 480, however, MPEG DVD Wizard adds black bars to the top and bottom of the frame.

By letter boxing, MPEG DVD Wizard try to preserve maximum details.

For downloaded stuff, it is very difficult to judge if it is encoded with proper understanding and proper encoder settings. SD resolution permits variety of non-square pixel aspect ratios, where as in HD it is always square (1:1), and maintain proper details according to source (video shoot).

[Cornucopia]

When you say 'convert' was that 'conversion' done before adding the video to Mpeg DVD Wizzard. That would explain the black bars since your video 720(or 702) is no longer 4:3.

If the converion was done withing the program you have to retain the aspect ratio else, again, you do not have 4:3 video.

You are somewhat confused by the fact that the dvd storage aspect ratio is 720*480 but there is no need to convert to that. If you do then you MUST ensure that the AR is still 4:3.

This is so very NOT true!

NTSC DVD has ONLY 1 Full-quality/Full-resolution storage size: 720x480 (or, alternately 704x480, but it's basically the same thing)! That's it, end of story. If you want a full rez DVD-Video for NTSC-land, you MUST encode using that(those) resolution(s). If your source isn't that resolution, it will HAVE to be resized to match. If it was a 4:3 equivalent ratio (like 640x480), just stretch the horizontal, encode as 720x480, mark it as 4:3 DAR and you're done. If it was a 16:9 equivalent (like 852x480), just shrink the horizontal, encode as 720x480, mark it as 16:9 DAR and you're done. (Obviously, if your vertical is ALSO a different size than the examples, you want to do both proportionally to first get the vertical to the 480 height). But in ALL cases, the encoded & stored video is 720x480 (or 704), using 8/9 PAR (or 10/11) when expecting 4:3 DAR.

And 640x480 itself is strictly NEVER LEGAL as a DVD-Video resolution, so you can't just somehow "keep it". Also note, that for DVD-Video, there is NO allowed setting that supports SQUARE PIXELS of any image resolution.

@sanlyn, I agree that the vast majority of old H'wood films were Academy aperture AR (actually 1.375:1), though many Silents were exactly 1.33:1, but this has pretty much ALWAYS been adjusted to fit the 1.33 of the old television screens, so when transferring film-to-video, something was either cropped at that point, or there was a very slight horizontal squeezing. Clearly, the idea of adjusting a possibly "fluid" AR has been with us for a while.

@santiam, if you took a 640x480 4:3DAR 1:1PAR video and encoded it to 720x480 4:3 DAR and it showed pillarbars, what you did wrong was lead the app to believe you wanted to MAINTAIN it's CURRENT PAR (which would put the 640x480 in a window within the 720x480 frame). Ironically, upon playback to your standard Non-square SD TVs, it would NOT maintain it's original AR, but look "skinny".

Will it "lose quality" going from 640x480 to 720x480? Technically, yes, a little. But you have to do it anyway to make it DVD-Video LEGAL, as well as the fact that you'll be losing a little quality anyway because you're re-encoding from MP4 to MPEG2 (probably MORE because of that than the other). Just do it and stop worrying about it.

Scott

[enim]

NTSC DVD has ONLY 1 Full-quality/Full-resolution storage size: 720x480 (or, alternately 704x480, but it's basically the same thing)! That's it, end of story. If you want a full rez DVD-Video for NTSC-land, you MUST encode using that(those) resolution(s). If your source isn't that resolution, it will HAVE to be resized to match. If it was a 4:3 equivalent ratio (like 640x480), just stretch the horizontal, encode as 720x480, mark it as 4:3 DAR and you're done. If it was a 16:9 equivalent (like 852x480), just shrink the horizontal, encode as 720x480, mark it as 16:9 DAR and you're done. (Obviously, if your vertical is ALSO a different size than the examples, you want to do both proportionally to first get the vertical to the 480 height). But in ALL cases, the encoded & stored video is 720x480 (or 704), using 8/9 PAR (or 10/11) when expecting 4:3 DAR.

Above reply/quotes contains all required technical details.

TRY...
Re-size and convert 640 x 480 to 720x480 using 8/9 PAR (or 704x480 using PAR 10/11) avi or mpg without adding any borders, and feed it into MPEG DVD Wizard.

[DB83]

Scott

I think you mis-interpreted what I was, albeit badly, trying to say. I never said that 640*480 was a valid storage size for any 4:3 dvd. My comment was around the fact that the video in question appeared to be 4:3 but, I suppose, it is possible that it did not have the appropiate flag set.

I was simply trying to state the case that the 4:3 flag had to be set. Surely ANY dvd authoring program worth its salt would allow that so it is somewhat incomprehensible why DVD Mpeg wizzard makes a mess of it.

[enim]

What is MPEG DVD Wizard, a DVD authoring s/w? I replied by guessing it a DVD authoring s/w.

[sanlyn]

Rgw Wizard is an authoring program (it also edits and smart-renders). I believe term "encoded" was used in mentioning authgring programs. An MPEG isn't "re-encoded". It has its header info, file name, and a few other things changed. But the authoring step itself is not re-encoding.

[Cornucopia]

I agree, a DVD-compliant MPEG file does NOT need to be re-encoded, just re-multiplexed & have some headers adjusted slightly. However, a 640x480 MPEG file will STILL have to be re-encoded before it will be allowed to be on an authored DVD-Video (not talking data DVD here).

What I was guessing about the MPEG Wizard business was that, like many apps, it probably has a place with which to interpret the incoming footage, and one of those ways is: DAR and/or PAR. Another item apps often have is a way to force it to maintain what it thinks to be the existing incoming AR in the outgoing AR. If either one of those 2 areas is misled, a faulty outcome, such as what occured, is likely.

Scott