Possible to create 720p 59.940 fps vid with Vegas Pro 8?

[brassplyer]

Trying to create 720p HD video at 59.94 fps but don't see a default option to do this. If I select one of the available 720p render options and change the frame rate to 59.940 I get an error message.

Is it possible to do within Vegas Pro8?

[poisondeathray]

What is the error message?

I think you can , either through Mainconcept MPEG2 or SonyAVC. There might not be a preset (enter it manually). I think Mainconcept AVC wouldn't allow you to until newer versions of Vegas

Alternatively , you could use debugmode frameserver , or render a lossless intermediate and another (better) encoder

I think I still have a vegas 8 installed on one of my older computers - if you can't figure it out, I can fire it up

[brassplyer]

What is the error message?

It says unknown.

*bang head on desk*

Since posting this, apparently fiddling around with the "level" settings under the video tab changing it to "High" allows the render to proceed. Now I just need to find out what the "Profile" and "Level" settings actually do.

[poisondeathray]

Now I just need to find out what the "Profile" and "Level" settings actually do.

If you're talking about AVC, they are categories which place limitations on things like certain bitrate, framerates, resolutions, encoding features

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Profiles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Levels

These categories are there so that you can ensure compatiblity with certain devices .e.g 1st gen ipod might be limited to baseline@L1.3 . blu-ray would be limited to high@L4.1

[_Al_]

For Vegas 8.0c,
MainConcept mpeg4-avc will not allow to set those double frame rates even manually, well you set it but it will not encode it anyway,
Sony Avc works in Vegas 8.0c to render 59.940fps , you have to choose Sony avc - default template - and manualy input frame size - 1280,720, profile - main (no high available), frame rate - 59.940, fieldorder - none, pixel aspect ratio - 1.0 and then bitrate, also check audio Tab

encoding quality is nothing special, it is old version ..., definitively is better to use frame server and use some x264 encoder

[poisondeathray]

Also , if this is the same project with your VHS upscale, there are a couple of issues you might encounter:

Vegas treats Huffyuv (and many "lossless" codecs) as "Computer RGB" instead of "Studio RGB" , so your levels might be screwed up unless you adjust for them. You can search if you want more info, it 's discussed quite a bit

Earlier versions of vegas didn't render blu-ray compatible AVC streams. When you try to author these in DVDA, it would re-encode it instead of allowing passthrough , causing quality loss

If you're not editing the video, I would avoid the vegas step completely. (or even if you are editing in vegas, I would still use another encoder). Like _Al_ says above, x264 produces much better quality , although you might not appreciate it from a VHS source.

[_Al_]

I correct myself, even mainconcept mpeg4-avc encoder encodes 59.970 fps in Vegas 8.0c but project properties has to be set to that frame rate also .

[brassplyer]

For Vegas 8.0c,
MainConcept mpeg4-avc will not allow to set those double frame rates even manually, well you set it but it will not encode it anyway,

What I'm trying now is output type - HDV. Mpeg-2 with m2t extension. This seems to work.

[jagabo]

nevermind

[_Al_]

HDV is interlace video, you will loose lots of pixels and make interlace video out of your progressive footage, do you have to do that, is it for BD or something? Audio for HDV is not BD compatible.

[budwzr]

[See Post #9]

unsub

[brassplyer]

Also , if this is the same project with your VHS upscale, there are a couple of issues you might encounter:

Vegas treats Huffyuv (and many "lossless" codecs) as "Computer RGB" instead of "Studio RGB" , so your levels might be screwed up unless you adjust for them. You can search if you want more info, it 's discussed quite a bit.

I did one short test render to an HDV .mt2 file that looks good played back on the DAplayer software Blu-Ray player.

The only thing is, rendering as per above, the highest bitrate available is 15,543,000 bps. At 10% of the file rendered it was at about 1.2 gigs, so it appears this 82 minute video won't come near filling a single layer BD. Wonder if I'd gain anything finding something that renders at a higher bitrate or if this is already more than enough?

The other thing is I see Vegas Pro 8 apparently isn't designed to fully exploit a Core2 Quad processor.

[poisondeathray]

The only thing is, rendering as per above, the highest bitrate available is 15,543,000 bps. At 10% of the file rendered it was at about 1.2 gigs, so it appears this 82 minute video won't come near filling a single layer BD. Wonder if I'd gain anything finding something that renders at a higher bitrate or if this is already more than enough?

15Mb/s for 720p59.94 using MPEG2 usually isn't enough for a typical (real) HD source (at least a decent quality source). MPEG2 is very crappy quality. You will see macroblocking if you look closely even at 30-40Mb/s . But for your SD source, it might be enough

I'm pretty sure you can use higher bitrates using Mainconcept MPEG2, you might have to change some of the profile settings or manually enter it. The only "good" thing about MPEG2 in vegas for blu-ray is that it will author in DVDA without re-encode. The other vegas encoders for blu-ray in vegas 8 will cause DVDA to re-encode (even the templates labelled "blu-ray" get re-encoded....pretty stupid if you think about it)

[_Al_]

I think he was talking about mpeg4avc regarding that bitrate. Yes, DVD Architect insisting on re-encoding Vegas' presets is kind of weird and not really professional.

It is kind of sad, seeing you guys make interlace videos out of your 60p progressive originals because of some BD standard tells you so. Is there a reason to make BD compatible videos? But I guess you have to do what you have to do ... To give it away I understand but to do it for yourself ...

I use Vegas 8.0c, frame server and both latest Megui or Ripbot264 use 100% out of my i5 cores.

[brassplyer]

I think he was talking about mpeg4avc regarding that bitrate.

No, mpeg-2 with an .m2t extension.

It is kind of sad, seeing you guys make interlace videos out of your 60p progressive originals

Who said anything about making an interlaced video? I've been jumping through hoops specifically to make a progressive video out of an originally interlaced video.

Is there a reason to make BD compatible videos?

Maybe I'm not interpreting your question correctly - it seems self-evident. Doesn't a video have to be "BD compatible" to be burned to a Blu-Ray disk and played back on a Blu-Ray player?

[poisondeathray]

It is kind of sad, seeing you guys make interlace videos out of your 60p progressive originals because of some BD standard tells you so. Is there a reason to make BD compatible videos? But I guess you have to do what you have to do ... To give it away I understand but to do it for yourself ...

Agreed. But sometimes BD is necessary - maybe clients want it, or you want to ship a physical BD off . I would never do it for myself . Different strokes for different folks....

But for the OP - he's going to 1280x720p59.94 from an interlaced VHS source. You might be mixing up your 'peeps'

[_Al_]

ok, I did not read other threads, I'm lost here, ok, VHS to 720p , why, 60p SD sure with QTGMC perhaps if you want progressive (I do it too), HDV is m2t not mt2, uses aspect ratio, perhaps it wasn't meant to be HDV just some mpeg2, HDV is only one - mpeg2 1440x1080i ~25 Mbit

[poisondeathray]

ok, I did not read other threads, I'm lost here, ok, VHS to 720p , why, 60p SD sure with QTGMC perhaps if you want progressive (I do it too), HDV is m2t not mt2, uses aspect ratio, perhaps it wasn't meant to be HDV just some mpeg2, HDV is only one - mpeg2 1440x1080i ~25 Mbit

Strictly speaking, this isn't the case. HDV comes in different "flavours" , sorted according to fourcc . You were referring to the most common used HDV cam variant

fourcc     description
hdv1     HDV 720p30
hdv2     HDV 1080i60
hdv3     HDV 1080i50
hdv4     HDV 720p24
hdv5     HDV 720p25
hdv6     HDV 1080p24
hdv7     HDV 1080p25
hdv8     HDV 1080p30
hdv9     HDV 720p60
hdva     HDV 720p50

I don't know if vegas offers them all (at least not in presets), but I'm pretty sure there is a way to unlock the settings .

[_Al_]

yes, you are right, HDV could be also 720p

still...., he makes VHS to 720p , he can put VHS to interlace SD BD compatible right away in one shot what is this all about for ?

[poisondeathray]

still...., he makes VHS to 720p , he can put VHS to interlace SD BD compatible right away in one shot what is this all about for ?

Good question, I asked the same thing in the other thread

He didn't like his TV's deinterlacing quality compared to QTGMC, and wanted to experiment with progressive BD . He initially wanted 1080p upscale , but it's not 59.94p isn't supported at that resolution (and it's pointless to re-interlace since the main goal was to incorporate QTGMC to avoid the poor TV deinterlacing)

[_Al_]

what he needs to is to make 60p SD with QTGMC and make some CRT=16 encoding and then put his video to thumbdrive and use it (if there is no network in the house), or any cheap media player with external HDD or thumbdrive, they are dirty cheap now, if his player will not play those

if he needs to give away a video then give away thumbdrive , they are almost for free those 4GB or 8GB ones, with video on it, or DVD, because he's got SD in the first place

[budwzr]

You "Smart Fellers" don't realize that Apple uses a fancy box for a reason. They can add another $100 to the final price. Art HAS NO price.

It's not the restoration of The Honeymooners that sells it, it's the "Platinum Collection" status.

[_Al_]

Baking powder ?

[budwzr]

Baking powder ?

Baking powder?

[brassplyer]

still...., he makes VHS to 720p , he can put VHS to interlace SD BD compatible right away in one shot what is this all about for ?

Good question, I asked the same thing in the other thread

He didn't like his TV's deinterlacing quality compared to QTGMC

That's not completely it. One issue is I wanted to make progressive video as a starting point to work with since I've found that certain filters mess with the interlacing and cause problems. So, the idea is to make it a moot point. The progressive video seems to be more tweak-receptive. Also to facilitate upload to video sites.

[_Al_]

be carefull uploading 60p, it gets re-encoded to 30p for example (YouTube) , how they do it (dropping every other frame or interpolate little bit) I do not know so check it yourself,

if you have your own web page and web player in it, you can use 60p video in it (encoded to appropriate bitrate) but those sharing sites like YouTube, Vimeo will re-encode your uploaded videos anyway

Baking powder= I beg your pardon

I have no idea why you said what you said

[budwzr]

I was comparing SD delivered on BD to moon cakes wrapped in gold foil.

[_Al_]

ok

[brassplyer]

be carefull uploading 60p, it gets re-encoded to 30p for example (YouTube) , how they do it (dropping every other frame or interpolate little bit)

Right, but it's still going to look better than if the video was treated with a lesser deinterlacer since just the basic image quality is so much better. I've done some experimenting, the diff betw the 59.94 & 29.97 might not even be noticeable.

[poisondeathray]

I've done some experimenting, the diff betw the 59.94 & 29.97 might not even be noticeable.

It's highly dependent on the content. Things like action, sports you will notice a night & day difference. Slow moving drama, controlled shooting on sets, less of a difference

Download this demo video made by jagabo
https://forum.videohelp.com/images/guides/p1981421/24v30v60.avi

(from this post)
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/307004-Best-framerate-conversion-%28eg-23-97-to-30-...=1#post1888926