help jumping from SD to HD

[blacktooth]

I have home video in 8mm, digital8, and now minidv. I use CorelVideoStudio Pro X2 for my editing. (and TMPGENC for encoding and authoring). I have almost 20 years of home video, all in AVI format, all edited with Corel Pro X2. Many of my projects are ongoing - and will be ongoing for years.

I'm in the market for a new camcorder. My minidv one is 6 years old and works fine, but I'd like to upgrade now. I am overwhelmed by the potential switch to HD. I’ve spent a few hours going through some posts here trying to get a grasp on what's involved with the switch to HD. I'm very confused. I apologize for any questions that have already been covered.

Basically, I want to know if video from an HD camcorder can be edited with Corel Pro X2 right alongside my old AVI files. And, if yes, is it simple and intuitive to do so. At the very least, can I film in SD (which I believe is possible) to do this? Or, how difficult is it to record in HD and convert/reduce it to SD? (I have a new computer with an i5 processor) Are there guides somewhere (which I cannot find) that describe how to handle this?

I am open to any camcorder under $800. One camcorder that I'm looking at right now is the Canon Vixia HF X200. We like to use our camcorder as a still camera - even though camcorders don't take great stills. It's a must that the camcorder takes decent still photos, and this Canon gets a good rating for stills.

Thanks for any advice or guidance.

[aedipuss]

if stills are as important as video you may want to go with a dslr that takes videos. i really like my canon 3ti dslr, it shoots 1080p30 or 720p60. but it's mainly for backup video for my canon hv30 HDV cam when used for video work. the hv30 uses the same tape as your miniDV cam but shoots HD. i guess you could call the stills it shoots ok - 1920x1080 ~ 2mp. the canon hv40 HDV model is still available.

[edDV]

You have a fork in the road. The two potential HD formats are HDV (e.g. Canon HV20/30/40) or AVCHD.

HDV is designed to be interoperable with D8/MiniDV. It will record to and play the same MiniDV tapes. If you record in MPeg2 HDV mode*, the camcorder can output either 1440x1080 HD or 720x480 DV over Firewire to hard disk. The down conversion to DV is done in camcorder hardware. This means you can shoot HD but capture and edit in SD. You still need to deal with the 16:9 vs 4:3 aspect ratio issues.

AVCHD camcorders store video in h.264 format to class 4 to 10 flash media. They can record to 1440x1080 or 1920x1080 resolutions. Down conversion to 720x480 (for DVD or DV editing) needs to be done in software. Downsizing interlace video can be lossy and compute intensive. SD flash media is approximately 10x more expensive than DV tape** but can be erased. Advantage of AVCHD is more modern camera designs at consumer level and potentially better still performance depending on camcorder model choice.

A second AVCHD option is the DSLR. Advantages include interchangeable lenses, short depth of field focus and better low light performance. Also superior stills. Disadvantages are poor audio performance, lack of continuous auto focus, larger size and much higher cost. There is nothing good in your price range.


*HDV format is a subset of the pro MPeg2 XDCAM-HD format but is being phased out at the consumer level. The Canon HV series camcorders are still available in this format at very reasonable prices but are unlikely to be replaced. They are most appealing to those with DV tape libraries and those that want pro level manual exposure and audio controls. Also, like DV format these can output live DV or HDV streams over Firewire for live streaming. AVCHD cams can only stream uncompressed over HDMI.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=597424&Q=&is=REG&A=details

** Panasonic PQ tape works well for DV or HDV recording and costs only ~$2 per hour.
http://www.tapestockonline.com/pa63mipqus.html

[2Bdecided]

Basically, I want to know if video from an HD camcorder can be edited with Corel Pro X2 right alongside my old AVI files.

I can see this is the way to an easy life, and of course HDV downconverted to DV in the camera while capturing is perfect. You won't even have to change your workflow.

But it begs the question: what's the point of jumping to HD if you only use the SD output?

Also, HDV is a dying format. It's usually unwise to jump onto a dying format, but if it saves you from having to upgrade your PC before you want to, it may be worth it.


The better question to ask is: how do I transition these ongoing projects to HD painlessly?

If you don't need to re-edit the SD part, just render it to a single DV file, and import it into any HD capable NLE (is Corel Pro X2 capable? I have no idea. I use Sony Vegas HD.). It may be you can just change the project settings, and carry on with HD clips alongside the existing SD ones. There are nicer ways of upconverting SD to HD than in a NLE, but most people don't want to take the time to mess around with AVIsynth or other external upconverters.

Cheers,
David.

[blacktooth]

Thank you so much guys for the advice. edDV, you’ve painted a clear picture for me, even if the answer to the picture isn’t totally clear. I like the look of that Canon HV40, and the HDV does sound much easier to work with than the AVCHD.

David, you ask a good question about transitioning the ongoing projects to HD. I would follow that with another question. Instead of ‘downgrading’ the AVCHD video to fit in with SD, is it reasonable to just to have both types of video clips in a project? I just played around with my Corel Pro X2, and it does render AVCHD files. Surely I can import AVCHD as well(right?), but I don’t have any AVCHD to import to try it out. If that would work, then that might be the way to go.

When I bought my first camcorder, an 8mm Sony back in 1993, it recorded in 4:3. For consistency, I used 4:3 with both of my digital camcorders as well. Going forward, I’m not sure what to do. Can 4:3 be edited alongside 16:9? Can I keep filming in 4:3, and is it really a big deal if I do?

Thanks again.

[2Bdecided]

I don't know about Corel Pro X2, but most NLEs allow that.

You can probably find some raw AVCHD files from the camcorder you're thinking of buying on the net. Download them and drop them into your editor and see what happens.

No one shoots HD in 4x3, but you can crop it to 4x3 if you must. Some NLEs will let you choose which part to keep (i.e. not necessarily the centre). Or you can letterbox it to keep it all (with black bars top+bottom).

I'd go with a 16x9 HD project. The assumption is that one day, even if not now, you'll want to watch your videos on a 16x9 HD TV. Most NLEs allow you to choose how each 4x3 clip appears in a 16x9 project - cropping, adding black bars either side, a combination, stretching (yuk), etc. Be warned that SD footage will look worse than HD, and cropped SD footage will look even worse (softer) because you're blowing up 720x480 or 720x360 to fill 1920x1080 - that's a lot of interpolation. Though it's got to be interpolated to watch on an HDTV anyway - either by you, or by the TV. I bet your TV does a better job than a bad NLE, but a poorer job than something like AVIsynth.

Cheers,
David.

[blacktooth]

I found a few sample AVCHD files on the internet and downloaded them. I started a new project on Corel Pro X2 and imported both an AVCHD file and one of my old AVI files from the minidv camcorder. With both clips on the timeline, I rendered them into an AVCHD file. When I play back the file, it plays just as you would hope – the AVCHD fills up the whole screen, and the AVI has a black bar on the left and right sides. The AVI, of course, is not as sharp.

My sample project was only 10 seconds long, and it took close to a minute to render it. My computer is just a few months old and has an i-5 processor. It looks like rendering will take a long time, but I should be able to do what I need.

Is it really that simple? It looks now like I’ve made too big a deal out of this. Am I overlooking anything? Can I go seamlessly to an AVCHD camcorder?

[edDV]

I found a few sample AVCHD files on the internet and downloaded them. I started a new project on Corel Pro X2 and imported both an AVCHD file and one of my old AVI files from the minidv camcorder. With both clips on the timeline, I rendered them into an AVCHD file. When I play back the file, it plays just as you would hope – the AVCHD fills up the whole screen, and the AVI has a black bar on the left and right sides. The AVI, of course, is not as sharp.

My sample project was only 10 seconds long, and it took close to a minute to render it. My computer is just a few months old and has an i-5 processor. It looks like rendering will take a long time, but I should be able to do what I need.

Is it really that simple? It looks now like I’ve made too big a deal out of this. Am I overlooking anything? Can I go seamlessly to an AVCHD camcorder?

That is the basic way to do it if you can live with the aspect ratio and resolution differences. To better match the resolution, SD video is often shown reduced size in a 1080i 16x9 frame (picture in picture style) perhaps with captions or additional graphics.

[blacktooth]

One last question or two, if I may. I've always rendered my projects into an AVI file, then encoded and authored with TMPGENC products. I remember several years back that TMPGENC was highly recommended for encoding. The Corel Pro X2 renders straight into an MPEG file. (perhaps that's why it takes time??) I'm assuming it is encoded at this point and ready to be authored. Correct?

I can also author with my Corel software. Any opinions as to whether Corel is comparable nowadays to the quality and reliability of TEMPGENC? Or is it simply an issue of personal choice?

Thanks again for the help.

[edDV]

One last question or two, if I may. I've always rendered my projects into an AVI file, then encoded and authored with TMPGENC products. I remember several years back that TMPGENC was highly recommended for encoding. The Corel Pro X2 renders straight into an MPEG file. (perhaps that's why it takes time??) I'm assuming it is encoded at this point and ready to be authored. Correct?

I can also author with my Corel software. Any opinions as to whether Corel is comparable nowadays to the quality and reliability of TEMPGENC? Or is it simply an issue of personal choice?

Thanks again for the help.

Rendering takes longer for two reasons...

1. HD video has 6x the pixels vs DV or DVD. Hence ~6x the render time.

2. If you mix SD clips into an HD timeline there is additional render time to upscale the SD video to 1080i. This is also the case if you mix HD video into a 720x480 DVD. There is additional render time to shrink the HD video clips. The latter isn't the case if you let an HDV camcorder shrink the video in hardware.

You will need to upgrade your software for Blu-Ray encoding and authoring. Corel uses the Mainconcept MPeg2 codec as does Adobe Premiere and Sony Vegas. Each also includes an h.264 codec. Expect h.264 to take longer to encode but can encode to smaller file sizes.