(Video) newb needs help - NOTHING works on PC

[tomfranklin]

Hello all,

I've built a PC that I was originally going to use as a DVR. I since changed my mind and would like to use it for a video editing PC. It's an Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300, running at 2.5 GHz. It has 4GB of ram (NOT expandable). It has an MSI nVidia card with 1024MB of memory.

I'd like to start editing video. I've tried the trial versions of Corel VideoStudio Pro X3, Sony Vegas 9 AND 10. The programs shut down with various error messages part way into the editing process. The project consists of 32 SHORT (3 - 25 sec.) segments. All I'm doing is trimming beginnings and endings and adding 3 or 4 sound effects. NO transitions - other than a couple fade-ins/outs. All 32 files add up to 2.95 GB. They are .MOV files (H.264), taken with a Canon PowerShot SX200 IS.

I've built several PCs in my life and used Linux on most of them. I'm at a stage where I'd like to just sit back and CREATE and not have to mess around to get drivers to work, etc. That's why I loaded Win7 on this machine and downloaded the trial software. I figured things "would just work".

I guess my question is - is this machine up to specs? Is 4GB enough? Do I go with a MAC?

ANY help is appreciated. I'm in my early 60s and am at a point in my life where I'd like to experiment with my creative side rather than my technical side.

Thanks for listening.

[edDV]

Specs look good. Similar to my editing machines. It all works for me (Vegas Pro 10 and, Vegas MS Platinum 10).

So the possible issues

- Corrupt Windows install
- Corrupt Vegas install

or something wrong with the video clips. What format are they? Use Mediainfo and post treeview result here.

What are the error messages?

Have you tried other known good clips?

Even if the video format is unsupported, it is very hard to crash Vegas.

[poisondeathray]

You crash is probably from your quicktime version. Known issues with vegas

Downgrade to 7.4.x or 7.5.x

[jagabo]

CPU overheating?

[tomfranklin]

Thanks all, for responding. I tried poison's advice and replaced Quicktime with 7.5.5. I started Vegas 9 and loaded ALL 32 clips into the time line. Loading 10 at a time, and editing, then 10 more, had been enough to crash each of the other programs before. I'm editing them now. So far so good. I'm hoping this takes care of the problem. If so, I'll load Vegas 10 back on (I hope the trial version allows me to do that).

@jagabo - advice on program to monitor CPU temp? I see Real Temp and Core Temp advertised online.

@edDV - here's the output from one clip:

General
Complete name : D:\Movie\MVI_1709.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 40.4 MiB
Duration : 14s 633ms
Overall bit rate : 23.2 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2010-08-06 21:14:14
Tagged date : UTC 2010-08-06 21:14:14

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Baseline@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 14s 633ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 22.5 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 30.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.813
Stream size : 39.2 MiB (97%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2010-08-06 21:14:14
Tagged date : UTC 2010-08-06 21:14:14
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.601-6 525, BT.1358 525, BT.1700 NTSC, SMPTE 170M

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 14s 633ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 705.6 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.23 MiB (3%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2010-08-06 21:14:14
Tagged date : UTC 2010-08-06 21:14:14

Again, I really appreciate the help.

[Moontrash]

advice on program to monitor CPU temp? I see Real Temp and Core Temp advertised online.

Speccy works good and it's free

[edDV]

Looks like a still camera 30 fps file. May take some tweaking in project settings.

[jagabo]

Try running a program like CpuBurn:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Benchmarks/cpuburn.shtml

to stress your CPU. You'll need to run four instances of the program to stress all four cores of your CPU. If the computer crashes you know overheating is a problem (though this does not rule out software problems in addition).

[tomfranklin]

Looks like a still camera 30 fps file. May take some tweaking in project settings.

Yes, the clips were taken with a still camera. I was surprised at how good the clips look @ 1280x720. What should I specifically look for in the project settings? Is that Project > Properties or Optionls > Preferences?

[edDV]

The Canon PowerShot SX200 IS camera writes to a Quicktime mov wrapper. Need to install proper Quicktime version first.

Then try these project settings





If it still doesn't work, try converting Quicktime mov to a m2ts wrapper.

[tomfranklin]

Hmmm....THAT'S disappointing

I loaded up the 32 clips into Vegas 10, and at least it didn't crash. So, before wasting any time editing, thought I'd just "Make a Movie" - to HD, not DVD. NO cuts, NO transitions, NO text, NO added titles. The timeline read 13 minutes and a few frames. I got a "system low on memory" error within 1 minute. Before closing out, I fired up Task Mgr and it reports 2066 MB in use and 2004 MB free. If you figure Task Mgr is taking up some memory, I've got well over 2GB free.

So, I fire up Vegas 9 and do the same thing. No crash, but the video and audio are out of sync and the audio cuts out every 6 or 7 seconds for a fraction of a second.

My sister-in-law took basically the same footage with her camcorder (don't know the brand) and used her iMac (4GB) and Final Cut and pumped out a movie in about an hour

I'm in the process of converting the MOV files to m2ts, and will try that. The trial versions of Vegas are going to run out in 20 days.

If I knew more memory would solve the problem, I guess I'd be willing to buy a new mobo, remove the CPU from the current one, and add another 4GB of RAM, but what will that get me? I'm talking a 13 minute movie with absolutely NO special effects. Will it bomb out on a 26 minute movie with double the RAM. If I spend too much more, I may as well buy an iMac, no?

Thanks again for the suggestions. I'm off to convert to m2ts.

[edDV]

Hmmm....THAT'S disappointing

I loaded up the 32 clips into Vegas 10, and at least it didn't crash. So, before wasting any time editing, thought I'd just "Make a Movie" - to HD, not DVD. NO cuts, NO transitions, NO text, NO added titles. The timeline read 13 minutes and a few frames. I got a "system low on memory" error within 1 minute. Before closing out, I fired up Task Mgr and it reports 2066 MB in use and 2004 MB free. If you figure Task Mgr is taking up some memory, I've got well over 2GB free.

So, I fire up Vegas 9 and do the same thing. No crash, but the video and audio are out of sync and the audio cuts out every 6 or 7 seconds for a fraction of a second.

I could be that the demo version of Vegas lacks the proper runtime Quicktime support files.

I haven't seen the "system low on memory" errors for a few years but it usually doesn't mean RAM memory. RAM memory will page file to the hard drive when capacity is reached. The error may mean the scratch hard disk is filling with tmp files. Since Vegas is not a native h.264 editor, all of your video must be decompressed and recoded. This chews up temp or intermediate file space. Decompressed temp files will be much larger than the source h.264 files. For this reason many use a digital intermediate format like Cineform Neo for AVCHD. Other forms of h.264 may have additional issues.

Depending on your version of Vegas, you can change the temp file directory from Preferences or on the project menu (Pro). What are your computer specs? Do you have ample free space on the temp file hard disk? Vegas works best when a drive other than the OS drive saves the temp files.

Non-sync audio is typical of variable bit rate h.264 + PCM audio. Video skips frames but audio doesn't.

You have chosen the most difficult source video to play with. Try a format that Vegas edits natively (e.g. DV, HDV, XDCAM, or broadcast MPeg2 PS/TS).

[edDV]

My sister-in-law took basically the same footage with her camcorder (don't know the brand) and used her iMac (4GB) and Final Cut and pumped out a movie in about an hour

I'm in the process of converting the MOV files to m2ts, and will try that. The trial versions of Vegas are going to run out in 20 days.

If I knew more memory would solve the problem, I guess I'd be willing to buy a new mobo, remove the CPU from the current one, and add another 4GB of RAM, but what will that get me? I'm talking a 13 minute movie with absolutely NO special effects. Will it bomb out on a 26 minute movie with double the RAM. If I spend too much more, I may as well buy an iMac, no?

Thanks again for the suggestions. I'm off to convert to m2ts.

Apple converts all video other than DV format on import. They force a digital intermediate conversion. You can do the same thing if you convert your h.264 camera files to uncompressed, HDV/XDCAM MPeg2 or Cineform before editing.

Conversion to m2ts is just to solve the Quickitime problem. A better conversion would be to MPeg2 or better Cineform* to optimize the editing process.


* Cineform Neo has a demo. The product (including direct capture program) costs $129. Vegas Pro includes an older slower "video for windows" Cineform codec that supports up to 1440x1080.

[jagabo]

32 bit processes are normally limited to 2 GB of memory in Windows. That can be changed with a system tweak.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#memory_limits

[tomfranklin]

Seems there are MANY programs to go from m2ts to mov. Not so much the other way.

I have 330GB left on my C: drive where the tmp folder was pointing to in Vegas 10. I changed it to the D: drive (933GB) and it processed the 13 minutes of clips into a 98GB AVI file. It took 58 minutes. The movie won't play in anything I have. It's entirely black, and it just sits there. The slider at the bottom of the screen doesn't move.

It boggles my mind that 2.95GB worth of individual clips, when added together, produce a 98GB file. Of course it doesn't play, so I'm sure it's corrupted somehow. That can't be right is it? How would anyone produce even an hour of video? That would take 400GB?

I'm clueless as far as knowing formats and wrappers and such. What would you suggest as far as:

1) converting to a workable format(wrapper?)
2) rendering to a format that preserves the widescreen aspect

Any "free" converters out there you'd suggest? I've already spent $200 for Win7, $150 for the quad CPU, $60 for the extra 2GB of RAM, and will (hopefully) be spending another $129 on Vegas 10 Pro.

This is definitely the most knowledgeable and helpful board I've been to for any computer related stuff. I hope I'm not wasting your time.

Thanks again for all your help.

[tomfranklin]

32 bit processes are normally limited to 2 GB of memory in Windows. That can be changed with a system tweak.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#memory_limits

I'm running Win7 64bit. I realize Vegas is a 32bit app. Does this still apply to me? I do see:

User-mode virtual address space for each 32-bit process

Limit in 64-bit Windows
2 GB with IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE cleared (default)
4 GB with IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE set

How do I set it?


I also see this:

set maximum memory win 7 x64                           
                       Check the advanced boot options. 

Go to Start, in the search bar type msconfig and press enter    
System Configuration window will open on the screen
Click on tab named "boot"
Click on "Advanced Options" and uncheck the box for "Maximum Memory"

But, that's already the default in my setup.

[jagabo]

With 32 bit Windows you use /3GB in the BOOT.INI file to enable 3GB to each process. Under 64 bit Windows that option is already enabled for 32 bit processes. But 32 bit processes that want to use more than 2 GB have to be built with the large memory option too. That's what the IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE option is about. I don't think you can change this for an already built application.

[tomfranklin]

With 32 bit Windows you use /3GB in the BOOT.INI file to enable 3GB to each process. Under 64 bit Windows that option is already enabled for 32 bit processes. But 32 bit processes that want to use more than 2 GB have to be built with the large memory option too. That's what the IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE option is about. I don't think you can change this for an already built application.

So I CAN'T tweak anything for Vegas then? Or is it built in? I'm confused

[edDV]

Seems there are MANY programs to go from m2ts to mov. Not so much the other way.

I have 330GB left on my C: drive where the tmp folder was pointing to in Vegas 10. I changed it to the D: drive (933GB) and it processed the 13 minutes of clips into a 98GB AVI file. It took 58 minutes. The movie won't play in anything I have. It's entirely black, and it just sits there. The slider at the bottom of the screen doesn't move.

It boggles my mind that 2.95GB worth of individual clips, when added together, produce a 98GB file. Of course it doesn't play, so I'm sure it's corrupted somehow. That can't be right is it? How would anyone produce even an hour of video? That would take 400GB?

I don't have sample files from the SX200 IS but compression would be on the order of 35x so decompressed RGB temp files would expands ~35 times (depending on project settings).

You need to render the timeline to make it playable. Or just export to a playable format.

[edDV]

I'm clueless as far as knowing formats and wrappers and such. What would you suggest as far as:

1) converting to a workable format(wrapper?)
2) rendering to a format that preserves the widescreen aspect

Any "free" converters out there you'd suggest? I've already spent $200 for Win7, $150 for the quad CPU, $60 for the extra 2GB of RAM, and will (hopefully) be spending another $129 on Vegas 10 Pro.

This is definitely the most knowledgeable and helpful board I've been to for any computer related stuff. I hope I'm not wasting your time.

Thanks again for all your help.

Cineform Neo would be the best solution but not free.

Next to try would be MPeg2 at ~35Mb/s for quality or 25Mb/s (HDV format). These will edit natively in Vegas and even smart render. That means there is no conversion to TEMP files on import and re-renders will only be done for frames in transitions or those that get filtered.

To get to HDV Mpeg2, export your current timeline to HDV format. You can keep audio as PCM mono or encode it to AC3.

Then open a new HDV project and import the HDV file. Everything should preview and edit fine from the timeline with that processor.

[tomfranklin]

Well, I guess even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

I used WinFF to convert the MOV files to MPG. I then loaded all the clips onto the timeline and "rendered as" an m2t file. It produced a 14 min, 24 sec movie that totaled 1.98GB. Looks like I'm on the right path.

If any of you have any websites you'd recommend to explain formats/wrappers, etc. I'd be grateful.

I appreciate you taking the time to help a noob. I hope to be able to do the same as I learn more.

Thanks again.