DVD Creation Impasse 1440 by 1080 Footage

[Canon GL-2 Guy]

Gents:

I have a fairly high quality MPEG-2 file that I’m trying to author to dvd.

This file was not encoded strictly/specifically as a MPEG-2 "dvd compliant" file due to the aspect size & contents.

My Target:

No fancy stuff…. just a plain basic menu, no scene or chapter buttons & a play movie button.

The files aspect size is 16:9, widescreen &1440 by 1080.

I have yet to find an authoring program that handle 1440 by 1080.

Thus far, on various programs, if it works at all, the file always gets downsized to 720 by 480 which understandably looks poor compared to the original especially on a bigger LCD screen!

This 2.7 gig MPEG-2 file consistently comes out at around 450 megs after being finalized to a dvd. Shouldn’t it be the same? I don’t want it transcoded again or whatever is happening! So obviously a lot of quality and detail got vaporized in the dvd creation process.

The programs assume I want a 480p outcome!

I came close once to getting an acceptable outcome, however the audio got butchered.

How will I complete this goal given the above specs ?

Thanks!

[poisondeathray]

DVD-Video is STANDARD DEFINITION ONLY , that's why you are getting 720x480

You need a blu-ray player that is AVCHD compatible or PS3 to be able to play HD content on DVD media (DVD5/9) . You would make an AVCHD disc. You could use multiavchd or avchdcoder to do this

[edDV]

Your 1440x1080 MPeg2 is probably 1440x1080i/29.97 which MiltiAVCHD will accept and output to 1440x1080i/29.97 AVCHD (MPeg4, H.264) which is the best utilization of bit rate. These files will play on most Blu-Ray players and Media players.

If you want a standard definition 720x480i/29.97 DVD, there are advanced techniques to handle the downsize. "480p" would require frame rate change to 23.976 fps. See "What is DVD?" above left.
https://www.videohelp.com/dvd

[edDV]

Canon GL2 Guy,

After about a half dozen attempts, you just aren't getting the difference between a DVD intended for a DVD player and HD files on DVDR media playable on some Blu-Ray players.

I've explained your alternatives in several other threads.

"I have yet to find an authoring program that handle 1440 by 1080"
That is because none exist! DVD authoring programs require 720x480i/29.97 or 720x480p/23.976p source.

If you want 1440x1080i/p you would need a Blu-Ray authoring program or use the less demanding MultiAVCHD for simple file conversion and playback on Blu-Ray players.

Instead of asking the same question several more times, confirm that you understand what we are trying to recommend you do.

[Canon GL-2 Guy]

Greetz to my favorite 2 mentors,

So I added the MPEG-2 file in Multi-ACHVD & am presently wondering how to get it through there without being encoded again. What parameters and settings should I be aware of?

BAP

[edDV]

Greetz to my favorite 2 mentors,

So I added the MPEG-2 file in Multi-ACHVD & am presently wondering how to get it through there without being encoded again. What parameters and settings should I be aware of?

BAP

MultiAVCHD will re-encode to MPeg4 H.264. No way to avoid that. Yes this is lossy.

I'm not aware of a Blu-Ray player that directly plays an HDV m2t file on DVDR media. Some do. You need to try it on yours. Most Media players will play HDV m2t.

Next Premiere CS3 export format to try is Blu-Ray MPeg2 @25 Mb/s 1440x1080i/29.97 top field first intended for Blu-Ray disc authoring. This file may directly play from a DVDR disc on your Blu-Ray player. Again you need to test it on your player.

If that doesn't work, take that Blu-Ray compliant MPeg2 file into MultiAVCHD and create an AVCHD file. That will directly play on most Blu-Ray players but not all. This conversion is lossy. Keep the HDV or Blu-Ray MPeg2 file as the archive.

If you upgrade to CS5, some of these steps will simplify. I'm assuming you don't want to pay $799 for the CS3 to full CS5 production premium suite upgrade. If you do, then the CS5 Encore will author to a BD Blue ray disc.
http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/production/

If you don't understand any of the above, induicate what needs further explanation.

[multiAVCHD]

multiAVCHD will not re-encode HD MPEG2 to H.264/AVC unless the user forces it to. It will create Blu-ray MPEG2 or AVCHD MPEG2. The second (although not allowed) works in all players, too.

[wiseant]

Doesn't the blu-ray spec only allow 1440x1080 16:9 for mpeg4 avc and vc1, but not mpeg2?

[Noahtuck]

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/323371-Calling-all-DVD-Lab-pro-experts

[Canon GL-2 Guy]

Hi,

I’m back after taking a day off this quest.

Here’s my first results with Multi AVCHD 4.1.

In short my initial experience generated more questions than answers!

1) I started out with a project that was largely comprised of .m2t files. It got compressed/encoded to a high quality MPEG-2 file of about 2.7 gigs. Since this app accepts MPEG’s as an input file, I thought I would ok from further encoding. To my surprise it squished this already highly compressed a lot more so that it ended up as only 429 megs! That can’t be right. Normally when I author MPEG-2 files to dvd, the resulting DVD takes about the same amount of space. This program seems to be treating & processing this MPEG like a simple .avi file.
2) “Transcoding” time is horrendous! I says it’s encoding not transcoding. That’s definitely not my intent & needs to be fixed. For a roughly 6.5 minutes of video, it took over 1 hour which makes me wonder how long it would take for a whole 45-50 minute program.
3) It took a 1440 by 1080 resolution and auto resized it to 1920 by something. Isn’t that just stretching the picture for any meaningful purpose or advantage?
4) Why is the project framesize given as 23.976 and then (29.970) in brackets? I don’t want the 24 p look!!
5) The program estimated the file output while it was “transcoding” was around 2.8 gigs as compared to the actual of only 429 megs. When I saw that #, I didn’t even bother to burn that folder to an image or dvd. Is that extent of file reduction normal and expected?

Maybe my settings must be all inappropriate for the task at hand

It would be most useful if one of you would be willing to send me screenshots of the proper settings & parameters within the Media, Author, Menu & settings tabs which should be used for my case so hopefully I can both learn & proceed from there.

I’m wondering. Since there doesn’t not seem to be a whole lot of choices for HD-DVD authoring, others include TS Muxer & AVCHDcoder 10.05.21, are they more appropriate or better than MultiAVCHD 4.1?

If I have to, is there any harm or damage done if I simply change the MPEG extension to .ts or .M2T? What are the possible ramification of doing that?

All comments, observations and solutions welcomed.

[edDV]

Hi,

I’m back after taking a day off this quest.

Here’s my first results with Multi AVCHD 4.1.

In short my initial experience generated more questions than answers!

1) I started out with a project that was largely comprised of .m2t files. It got compressed/encoded to a high quality MPEG-2 file of about 2.7 gigs. Since this app accepts MPEG’s as an input file, I thought I would ok from further encoding. To my surprise it squished this already highly compressed a lot more so that it ended up as only 429 megs! That can’t be right. Normally when I author MPEG-2 files to dvd, the resulting DVD takes about the same amount of space. This program seems to be treating & processing this MPEG like a simple .avi file.

So you verified your Blu-Ray player won't directly play an HDV m2t? Unfortunate.

Did you encode your Adobe CS3 MPeg2 to Blu-Ray spec as suggested?

"Blu-Ray MPeg2 @25 Mb/s 1440x1080i/29.97 top field first"

If so, your 2.7GB file would only run about 13 minutes.

Your Blu-Ray player wouldn't play the Adobe encoded MPeg2 file?

I'm going to encode a similar file to yours and try it in multiAVCHD.


Update: I followed the advice of DeanK (MultiAVCHD author) above and after Blu-Ray MPeg2 file selection, I just hit start (no transcode), then AVCHD relaxed and the finished file was MPeg2 with no recode!

Output MPeg2 file equaled input MPeg2 file

General
ID : 1
Complete name : F:\AVCHD-20100718-004849\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 747 MiB
Duration : 3mn 59s
Overall bit rate : 26.1 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format_Settings_GOP : M=3, N=15
Duration : 3mn 59s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 25.1 Mbps
Nominal bit rate : 30.0 Mbps
Width : 1 440 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.538
Stream size : 717 MiB (96%)

I need to test this DVDR disc on some Blu-Ray players.

[edDV]

multiAVCHD will not re-encode HD MPEG2 to H.264/AVC unless the user forces it to. It will create Blu-ray MPEG2 or AVCHD MPEG2. The second (although not allowed) works in all players, too.

Thanks for the "AVCHD MPeg2" tip Dean.

What do you suggest for a native HDV (MPeg2 m2t) camcorder file? In the past I hit "transcode" and used the default "Blu-Ray/AVCHD compliant" setting and the result was a conversion to 1440x1080i @24Mb/s AVC m2ts.

[multiAVCHD]

I'd suggest to use re-encoding ONLY if really necessary. And multiAVCHD will require .MTS or .M2TS file extension (not .m2t). There is no problem to pass-through 1440x1080i MPEG2 and put it into Blu-ray (or AVCHD) structure without any re-encoding.

[edDV]

I'd suggest to use re-encoding ONLY if really necessary. And multiAVCHD will require .MTS or .M2TS file extension (not .m2t). There is no problem to pass-through 1440x1080i MPEG2 and put it into Blu-ray (or AVCHD) structure without any re-encoding.

Thank you. That is great news.

I assume this applies equally to broadcast ATSC/DVB MPeg2 files.

[Canon GL-2 Guy]

More to come soon:

Howdid inadvertantly I "force" this program to further re-encode my original HD MPEG-2 file and not have it just passed through?

Copied & Pasted:

"pass-through 1440x1080i MPEG2 and put it into Blu-ray (or AVCHD) structure without any re-encoding."

Please, how exactly is this done?

I'd love to end up with eiether of these 2 results that retains quality & yields a product that can be easily authored & put to disc.

Thanks

What should I be doing?

[Canon GL-2 Guy]

How do I effectively disable or bypass the MPEG-2 encoder in the settings tab?

Dean or anybody else please help!

It's not obvious to me.

Thanks.

[multiAVCHD]

Name your video with proper file-extension (m2ts or mts) if your video is really in MPEG2-TS container (don't confuse it with MPEG2 video codec). Load it in multiAVCHD and process it without tweaking anything. If you can't succeed please post your steps and a log file.

[Canon GL-2 Guy]

Dean,

The file in question was originally compressed with CS3's Adobe Media encoder as a plain "MPEG-2' file, however Adobe defines that.

I did not choose to encode to:

a) Blu-ray MPEG-2: due to limitations due to the DVD size, quality and time trade-offs.
b) DVD compliant MPEG-2: (Has HD content, resolution and properties which is not compatiable with that spec)
c) SVCD MPEG-2: Ancient format and very poor quality.

How do I determine if it presently has "MPEG2-TS container" status and can therefore be processed without encoding/reencoding or if not, how do I get it to that state.

Everybody, please free to chime in.

[multiAVCHD]

If it is a 'plain' MPEG2 then it should be named as .mpeg/.mpg.

Did you ever said what EXACTLY you want to do?

To create a SD DVD or Blu-ray disc? For SD DVD (Standard DVD Video disc) you'll get 720x480@23.976 (29.970 with pulldown) or TRUE HD 1440x1080 Blu-ray, which will play in most blu-ray players.

It is simple as it is... You load a file in multiAVCHD and process it. You'll get AVCHD or Blu-ray output.

If the file you loaded is NOT suitable for processing without full-reencoding, it will be marked for FULL reencoding. Even if that is the case, you can always alter the settings by clicking [transcode] button in MEDIA tab.

[Canon GL-2 Guy]

Sorry Dean,

I now know you are catching up on my situation are joining in the conversation in an advance stage.

I want to put this HD file to dvd, not a blue ray disc as I do not have a burner or any BR discs.

This disc hopefully will play in standard media players.

So then from your response I guess I can assume this MPEG file is not in a "TS Container".

[edDV]

Dean,

The file in question was originally compressed with CS3's Adobe Media encoder as a plain "MPEG-2' file, however Adobe defines that.

I did not choose to encode to:

a) Blu-ray MPEG-2: due to limitations due to the DVD size, quality and time trade-offs.

Why do you not use the suggested Adobe Encoder Blu-Ray MPeg2 encoding template? It works.

Set encoder to:
"Blu-Ray MPeg2 @25 Mb/s 1440x1080i/29.97 top field first"

DVDR-5 (single layer media) gives you about 20 minutes of HD @ 25 Mb/s
DVDR-9 (dual layer media) gives you about 38 minutes of HD @25 Mb/s

If you desire lower picture quality and greater time, set a lower MPeg2 average encoding bit rate in Premiere for export. For example, try 17 Mb/s.

Your Premiere CS3 version has limited to no provision for AVC h.264 encoding. This would have to be done external to Premiere.

You have me totally confused as to your intentions. First you say "no-recode" and highest quality. For that I explained you could "Print to HDV tape" and recapture to a first generation HDV m2t for archive. "Print to tape" is necessary because CS3 lacks a direct HDV export template.

Next best is to use the suggested Blu-Ray MPeg2 template. When that is input to MultiAVCHD, just press "start" then "AVCHD relaxed" or AVCHD strict" and let it finish.

If you want lower quality but longer recording, experiment with lower MPeg2 bit rates.

If you want high definition, STOP using Adobe 720x480 encoding templates and then complain about quality loss.

[edDV]

This disc hopefully will play in standard media players.

What do you mean by that? It will require a Blu-Ray player. You will need to make a separate standard definition DVD.

The 1440x1080 MPeg2 file generated by the Adobe encoder will play on most High Definition capable media players. Some will require recoding to 1920x1080.

[Canon GL-2 Guy]

EdDV,

1) I got the finished product off the master timeline to tape on the 3rd try. Apparently the firewire connections from the A1 to the PC were shaky as the transfer was dropped multiple times & so I had to restart. I always print to tape for the most part! At least that finally worked.

2) I got a very high quality "plain" MPEG-2 file utilizing the plain MPEG-2 module. It's that file that apparently AVCHD is trying to reencode when selected/added. Simply changing the file extension does not seem to change anything. Nothing I try prevents AVCHD from encoding that file again.

Using blu-ray encoding with CS3 as you know yields PCM Audio which is not compatible when attempting to multiplex to"TS"/.m2t. The only other choice is not to multiplex at all. It seems to me that Multi-AVCHD requires a multiplexed file to process.

[edDV]

...

Using blu-ray encoding with CS3 as you know yields PCM Audio which is not compatible when attempting to multiplex to"TS"/.m2t. The only other choice is not to multiplex at all. It seems to me that Multi-AVCHD requires a multiplexed file to process.

I don't have Premiere CS3 here so I can't follow the exact encoder settings and limitations. I'm using Vegas Pro 9 here that uses a very similar Mainconcept MPeg encoder (Adobe Media Encoder also uses Mainconcept). Later versions of Premiere and Vegas have a wider selection of Blu-Ray audio options.

I saw in the Premiere CS3 instruction manual that you have a Blu-Ray MPeg2 template. Vegas has similar.
"Blu-Ray MPeg2 @25 Mb/s 1440x1080i/29.97 top field first"

That is your best starting point. It does export a m2v (audio separate) or mpg with audio. MultiAVCHD accepted these fine from Vegas. I was encoding audio as AC3. You could try first without audio as m2v only and see if that works on your player.

DeanK can maybe inform us for best audio settings for MultiAVCHD. So far HDV MPEG and AC3 work for me.

[edDV]

As a parallel issue, I've been trying to get straight HDV format (m2t) to work without recode. Just renaming the extension to mts did not work. Here is what works so far.

1. Encode the Premiere/Vegas HDV project to Blu-Ray MPeg2 as explained above.

2. Pass the HDV m2t file through the HDTVtoMPeg2 program. The TS or MPG output settings work for import to MultiAVCHD with no video recode. MultiAVCHD did convert HDV MPEG Layer2 audio to AC3.

The author of HDTVtoMPeg2 program suggests Videoredo for M2t to mpg conversion as an alternate.


PS: Both HDV to TS, and HDV to MPG conversions result in identical output from MultiAVCHD. MPeg2 video is not recoded. MPeg Layer 2 audio is converted to AC3.

General
ID : 1
Complete name : F:\AVCHD-20100718-125858\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 761 MiB
Duration : 3mn 59s
Overall bit rate : 26.6 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High 1440
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 3mn 59s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 25.1 Mbps
Nominal bit rate : 25.0 Mbps
Width : 1 440 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : Component
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.540
Stream size : 719 MiB (95%)

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Duration : 3mn 59s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Video delay : -38ms
Stream size : 11.0 MiB (1%)

[Canon GL-2 Guy]

To All: Any ideas as to how to transcode/convert the "plain" MPEG file to a format/extension that MultiACHVD accepts?

EdDV: To answer your earlier question, I'd like to give out dvd's with HD content which hopefully can be played on their computers. I think you even refered this as " HD-DVD".

I used the blu ray option and now have seperate audio (.wav) and video files.

Do I have to convert the .wav file to AC3 or can MultiAVCHD handle that file type?

Dean: How does yout program handle seperate audio files? Please advise. Thanks!

[Canon GL-2 Guy]

Ed DV:

Apparently HDTVToMPeg2 requires a TS file as input. Even though I used Premieres Blu ray encoding, due to the multiplex issue I ended up with a .wav & a .m2v file which is not what HDTV wants!

[edDV]

Ed DV:

Apparently HDTVToMPeg2 requires a TS file as input. Even though I used Premieres Blu ray encoding, due to the multiplex issue I ended up with a .wav & a .m2v file which is not what HDTV wants!

No I didn't make that clear.
#2 was HDV format (m2t) conversion to TS or MPG.

If you have your HDV file from "print to tape" and recapture, send that through HDTVtoMPeg2. Then send the result to MultiAVCHD.

[edDV]

To All: Any ideas as to how to transcode/convert the "plain" MPEG file to a format/extension that MultiACHVD accepts?

MultiAVCHD appears to accept "plain" or PS MPeg2 or MTS.

I used the blu ray option and now have seperate audio (.wav) and video files.

Do I have to convert the .wav file to AC3 or can MultiAVCHD handle that file type?

Dean: How does yout program handle seperate audio files? Please advise. Thanks!

I've used mp2 and AC3 so far with success. Not sure if PCM/wav uncompressed works. I'll try it. In your encoder custom audio settings you should have MPEG layer2 stereo as an option.

In the meantime simply import your m2v video file, hit "start" then "AVCHD strict" and see if you get to the end without recode. Copy resulting folders and files to a DVDR and see if it works on your Blu-Ray player.

[edDV]

EdDV: To answer your earlier question, I'd like to give out dvd's with HD content which hopefully can be played on their computers. I think you even referred this as " HD-DVD".

That is not what this is. MultiAVCHD results in a disc that only plays on a Blu-Ray player.

HD-DVD format was an alternate to Blu-Ray and required an HD-DVD player. It is now obsolete. They had a Multi-disc format with HD-DVD on one side and standard DVD format on the other.

An alternative for your second disc is to make a standard def DVD with an HD file in the root. Computer players could open the HD file for playback. Possible formats:

WMV-HD - Windows Media Player will play it (fast P4 required)
xvid-HD - requires codec install or a special player (e.g. MPCHC, VLC)
divxhd - requires the divx-hd player and fast CPU
h.264 - requires codec plus fast display card and/or fast CPU

This will only work for short video segments due to limited disc space. You would need to encode to low bit rates to get any addition time.