Need help in deinterlacing an old VHS converted video (Sample included) ..

[ahmadka]

Hey guys .. Well I had these very old VHS videos which I thought I should convert into digital form ...

The problem is that all the videos I converted have interlacing in them, which becomes noticeable even when there are slight movements only ..

I have tried the built-in deinterlace filter in Virtualdub but it did not remove even a tiny bit of the interlacing ..

One solution I found was the reduce the resolution of the video by half, and although it did remove the interlacing, it also blurs the video when I switch to fullscreen ...

Is there any better deinterlacing method available .. ?

I have uploaded a small 1 minute clip of one of my videos which shows some of the interlacing (only noticeable the some object moves or the camera zooms in or something .. )

The video can be downloaded from here: http://www.mediafire.com/?ylmm51xdn1n

Please note that I did do a search on Deinterlacing and did come across from 3rd party virtualdub filters for deinterlacing, but since I'm not very current with video editing jargon, and because the guides/forums posts I found were pretty old (because maybe right now there's some better method maybe), I needed to really search on my own, which is why I created this thread .. Please bear in mind that I'm not exactly well covered in video editing jargon, so please do elaborate a little bit on whatever you suggest .. Thanks!

[jagabo]

Do you really need to deinterlace? If you're going to DVD you don't need to. If you're going to upload to Youtube or some other streaming site you want to deinterlace first.

VirtualDub's deinterace (Yadif mode) worked fine with that video (although it was way over compressed with Xvid). Before, after:



There are better deinterlacers in AviSynth but it may take you a while to learn AviSynth.

[ahmadka]

Well I would probably just keep the videos in AVI format .. But why would I not need to deinterlace it if I were to convert them into DVD ?

Yes the deinterlacing partly works, but its also making any movement areas very 'blocky' .. Are there are better filters available ? Which filters for avisynth are you talking about ?

I dont mind using a filter which takes relatively more computational time, since I have a vacant Core 2 Duo machine which I can assign these big virtualdub jobs ..

[ahmadka]

I have worked with Avisynth in the past, but I'm no way an avisynth expert .. I know that you have to write tiny scripts for it and then run those scripts, etc .. So if I know what commands to use, etc .., I think I would be able to do it ..

[jagabo]

Well I would probably just keep the videos in AVI format .. But why would I not need to deinterlace it if I were to convert them into DVD ?

DVD and TV fully support interlaced video.

Yes the deinterlacing partly works, but its also making any movement areas very 'blocky' ..

That's not caused by the deinterlacing. It's because your source is over compressed. Are you capturing with Xvid compression? That's a no-no. Use a high quality codec for capture. If you're stuck with the current video try using MSU's Smart Deblocking filter for VirtualDub.

Are there are better filters available ? Which filters for avisynth are you talking about ?

For deinterlacing TempGaussMC_beta1mod() (and other minor variations) is the best for most material. It's pretty slow though. Again, if your stuck with that over compressed source you'll want to use some deblocking and deringing filters too.

I dont mind using a filter which takes relatively more computational time, since I have a vacant Core 2 Duo machine which I can assign these big virtualdub jobs ..

TempGaussMC is about 1/50 the speed of VirtualDub's Yadif. You'll have to download and install AviSynth, download and install the required filters, then create an AviSynth script, open it in VirtualDub (or whatever encoder you want to use) and encode.

Also, again if you're stuck with that Xvid source, enable Xvid's deblocking and deringing. That will help a lot.

[ahmadka]

Well I'm actually stuck with my current video, so as you suggest I think I need to apply some deblocking filter first .. So I need to do this deblocking before I do deinterlacing, or afterwards ? And for this purpose the deblocking filter use mentioned (MSU's Smart Deblocking filter) is the most recommended ?

[jagabo]

I just added a note about Xvid deblocking at the end of my previous post. Xvid will then deblock before the frames are given to the editor or AviSynth.

Here's a few seconds of your video with Xvid deblocking and deringing, and TempGaussMC (double frame rate):

AVISource("testclip2.avi")
AssumeTFF()
TempGaussMC_Beta1mod()

If you want 25 fps instead of 50 fps add SelectEven() or SelectOdd() to the end of the script.

[ahmadka]

Alright thanks for your help bro ... One more thing .. Suppose I wanted to try and re-capture the VHS video, which program should I use for capturing, and what high quality codec would you recommend for capturing .. ? I actually still have my VHS tapes but its a pain to connect my old VHS Player and hook everything up .. But if this means higher quality videos then I can do it ..

Going a little off-topic here, but while we're on the subject of recapturing I thought I should discuss this too .. I some of my captured videos, there's an audio delay (audio comes after the corresponding video) .. in some videos this gap is a second or so .. in others its as much as 10-15 seconds .. What is the cause of this sync issue, since its not like this in the original VHS video ... And if I wanted to try recapturing again, is there anything I can do to avoid this from occurring again ?

[jagabo]

I would use HuffYUV to capture. The files will be very big -- about 30 GB/hr. But since you're doing further processing you want the quality as high as possible for your intermediate file. If you really have to use Xvid while capturing, turn the motion search precision settings down (to speed up the processing, use the "real time" option), turn off B frames, use Target Quantizer mode with a quantizer of 2, an enable interlaced mode.

Your A/V sync problems are probably from dropping frames at the start of your captures. Using HuffYUV should take care of that (Xvid with the above settings should help too).

[ahmadka]

Alright thanks, and which program should I use to capture the video ? .. I also read that capturing in DV AVI format yields the best quality .. Can I use this format to store the intermediate file ? And would I need any special capturing device which supports DV AVi or something .. ? This is what I'm using to capture my VHS video:

http://www.amazon.com/Easycap-USB-Video-Capture-Adapter/dp/tech-data/B001BWU8US/ref=de_a_smtd

Also, is there any good VHS video capturing guide you can recommend to me ?

[jagabo]

Alright thanks, and which program should I use to capture the video ?

Try the software that came with it, of course. Also try VirtualDub.

I also read that capturing in DV AVI format yields the best quality .. Can I use this format to store the intermediate file ?

DV AVI would be a step below HuffYUV. It has half the color resolution and a (very) little artifacting from mild DCT compression.

And would I need any special capturing device which supports DV AVi or something .. ?

If you can capture with HuffYUV you can also use a DV encoder like Cedocida. Don't use Panasonic DV Codec -- it has problems.

Also, is there any good VHS video capturing guide you can recommend to me?

I don't necessarily agree with everything there but http://www.digitalfaq.com/ has lots of info to get you started.

If you're looking for quality, the place to start is an S-VHS deck with a line time base corrector and noise filtering. That is the single most important piece of equipment. They aren't made any more and a used one will probably cost you the equivalent of about US$300. If you don't want to spend that much, a used Panasonic ES-15 DVD recorder (about US$50) can be used as as a standalone time base corrector. You don't have to use its DVD recording ability, just pass the signal through its electronics.

[ahmadka]

Alright, well I'm following this guide to try and recapture my videos: http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/capture-avi-iuvcr.htm .. I just installed HuffYUV 2.1.1 (I found 2.2.0 as well but I thought 2.1.1 is more recommended) .. Anyways, can you tell me what settings I should use for the HuffYUV codec ? Here are the default codec settings:

[jagabo]

Those settings should be fine. The only thing I'd change is RGB Compression Method -- I set it to Convert To YUY2 (which means an RGB source is converted to YUY2 and then uses whatever method is selected for YUY2). But that setting probably won't come into play because you're not capturing RGB video (at least you shouldn't be). If your computer is really slow you can speed HuffYUV up a little bit by changing the compression method to Predict Left.

Are you having some problems?

[ahmadka]

Also, the author of that article is suggesting that MJPEG is somewhat a better lossless codec than HuffYUV when he states this:

"Using HuffYUV, I drop between 6 and 8 frames per hour. Using MJPEG, I drop no more than 1-2 frames in 90 minutes."

So should I continue using HuffYUV ?

[2Bdecided]

I would use HuffYUV to capture. The files will be very big -- about 30 GB/hr. But since you're doing further processing you want the quality as high as possible for your intermediate file.

What makes you think he'll do further processing? Assuming he captures properly there won't be any blocking, and assuming he uses a half-decent player, it'll get deinterlaced on-the-fly during playback - so what's left to do?

btw, jagabo, have you noticed he's using a $6 USB capture device?

Cheers,
David.

[jagabo]

Also, the author of that article is suggesting that MJPEG is somewhat a better lossless codec than HuffYUV when he states this:

"Using HuffYUV, I drop between 6 and 8 frames per hour. Using MJPEG, I drop no more than 1-2 frames in 90 minutes."

So should I continue using HuffYUV ?

MJPEG is not lossless. It can compress more than HuffYUV if you set it to lower quality settings. There is a lossless MJPEG from PicVideo. But it's not free. I don't know how fast it is or how much it compresses.

I get no dropped frames with HuffYUV or MJPEG. You're system may vary. You have to test for yourself. You may find that MJPEG quality is acceptable to you. I'm just giving you the pros and cons.

[jagabo]

What makes you think he'll do further processing? Assuming he captures properly there won't be any blocking, and assuming he uses a half-decent player, it'll get deinterlaced on-the-fly during playback - so what's left to do?

What codec do you know that is suitable for real time video capture, handles interlaced video well on both capture and playback, and doesn't produce any blocking?

[ahmadka]

btw, jagabo, have you noticed he's using a $6 USB capture device?

Well actually when I bought it it was for about $20 :P ..

Anyways, I managed to do some captures today .. Quality looks much better now ... Only one issue to report through: I'm still experiencing a little audio sync problem, although its almost negligible now ... At the beginning of the recorded video there's no sync issue ... however the sync linearly builds throughout the video and after 1:53:00 long video, the audio ends about 2 seconds before the video does .. !

I was using HuffYUV and iuVCR for the capture .. iuVCR reported about 700ms audio delay, and I found some tricks through which iuVCR tries to automatically correct this, which is does partly (the delay is removed from the start at least)

I also did the same capture twice, just to see if the sync issue repeats, which it does ..

So how can I make the audio slightly slower so that its 2 seconds longer, and ends with the video ?

Also, how can I make sure the HuffYUV is fully installed in my PC ? (because when I open a HuffYUV file in Gspot, it says codec NOT installed ) ...

[jagabo]

VirtualDub has an audio length adjustment feature. GSpot isn't good at detecting VFW codecs. If HuffYUV is working I wouldn't worry about what GSpot says.

[ahmadka]

AFAIK, VirtualDub only has a feature for setting a constant audio offset .. can you tell me now can I actually adjust the length of the audio ? I know there's another feature to 'match' the frame rates of both audio and video, but I read that normally doesn't work ..

[jagabo]

In its Advanced Filtering there are filters like Stretch and Time Stretch that can change the audio length.

Audio -> Full Processing Mode
Audio -> Use Advanced Filtering
Audio -> Filters... add Input, Time Stretch, Output
Audio -> Compression...

There's also a "make audio and video lengths match" feature but I forget where it is.

[2Bdecided]

What makes you think he'll do further processing? Assuming he captures properly there won't be any blocking, and assuming he uses a half-decent player, it'll get deinterlaced on-the-fly during playback - so what's left to do?

What codec do you know that is suitable for real time video capture, handles interlaced video well on both capture and playback, and doesn't produce any blocking?

I take your point.

Though of course there is an answer: DV!

Cheers,
David.

[jagabo]

Yes, DV is only a little more CPU intensive than HuffYUV, gives smaller files, only gives a little macroblocking, and the PAL DV chroma subsampling won't loose much color resolution. Especially if he eventually goes to DVD or web upload. He'll have to be careful about field order though. Most capture cards capture top field first. If he encodes straight to DV the field order will be wrong and he'll get very jerky playback.