1080 hd in a regular dvd

[luc13137]

i know about ''impossible to make a regular dvd in 1080'' i know it all but my head is still
wondering ,HOW DOES HOLLYWOOD DOES IT TO MAKE EXTREMELY GOOD QUALITY
DVD ,THAT THE IMAGE IS VERY GOOD EVEN IF IT'S NOT BLURAY''
is it because they start with real good quality film to strat with,or there is somethinf else,
i am boosting bitrate ,but i can not go further than the max possible,how do they do it?

[Baldrick]

is it because they start with real good quality film to strat with

Yep.

What is your source and what converter and settings are you using?

[2Bdecided]

Films are progressive. Most home movies are interlaced = harder to encode well at a given bitrate.

Lots of HD>SD conversion is poor quality, and typical consumer MPEG-2 encoders (for DVD) are far poorer than those used by professional DVD mastering facilities.


That's before you get into lighting, camera work, talent, etc...!

Cheers,
David.

[luc13137]

yes i have a sony hd that film in 1080 60i ,i use movie magix and deinterlaced the thing ,but that is not what i am asking,
i am asking what setting hollywood uses to create very very good quality films that looks almost like blurays,
i know they are using double layer,so what i am saying is if that hollywood uses settings that can create very good dvd
why we ordinairy folks can not use the same settings,or we can't because their quality is because of the
quality of image they start with.I JUST WANT MY DVD TO LOOK LIKE HOLLYWOOD DVD'S,
i do not at this moment want to go to bluray burner because i do not know a lot of people who uses them yet.

[mrswla]

I JUST WANT MY DVD TO LOOK LIKE HOLLYWOOD DVD'S

Your goal is unrealistic, unless you are a millionaire. Hollywood drops tons of money on their transfers.

If you want to get close, look at these.

http://www.sonic.com/products/Professional/Scenarist/quicklook.aspx

http://www.cinemacraftusa.com/products_cinemacraft_encodermp.shtml

[luc13137]

apart from the money aspect,how to they do it,
the best quality i was able to achieve ,is after the editing,i reencode in mpeg 2,then i use a free dvd and menu authoring
from source forge that is call avstodvd ,it can let me play a little bit we the dvd bitrate settings,i put them to the max
possible,after it is done if i look the mpeg 2 file in 1280x720 on my hd screen that is playing from my computer,and i compare
it with the dvd i just burn,it come's real close,real close,the only difference,on the dvd the image is a little bit darker
and there is a little bit more noise (not a lot).
so can i get a better quality .

[jagabo]

i am asking what setting hollywood uses to create very very good quality films that looks almost like blurays, i know they are using double layer,so what i am saying is if that hollywood uses settings that can create very good dvd

why we ordinairy folks can not use the same settings,or we can't because their quality is because of the
quality of image they start with.I JUST WANT MY DVD TO LOOK LIKE HOLLYWOOD DVD'S,
i do not at this moment want to go to bluray burner because i do not know a lot of people who uses them yet.

The difference isn't so much in the MPEG encoding, although that's a part of it. It starts at lighting and scene setup -- the most important part of a professional shot. Then comes the camera. They use much better quality optics than your camcorder has. They know how to use the camera to it's best advantage. They don't just put it on auto and hope for good results. They shoot on film at 24 fps with a lot less noise than you get with a consumer or prosumer camcorder shooting interlaced video (noise is a killer of MPEG compression). Even with everything else equal 24 fps compresses better than 30i.

[luc13137]

i will look at your 2 software tommorrow,thank you,now its time to go to bed.

[jagabo]

I forgot to mention motion -- good cinematographers use tripods for still shots and steadicams and dollies for moving shots. Footage from these compress much better than shaky handheld camcorder footage.

[luc13137]

i am starting to understand,with all ,meaning ,1+1+1+1+1=at the end extremely good quality,
several things once all together =good final result.
so if i don't have the money(and i don't)to change the small stupid camera,and i will not buy expensive
software,i am doom,or what can i do to obtain the best quality possible with what i have ??????

[jagabo]

Shoot under bright lighting. Use a wide aperture. Use wide angle rather than zoom. Use a tripod. Use a steadicam (see the link below for a cheap home made version). Shoot in 24p mode.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Build-a-stedicam-for--14-34742.htm

[edDV]

Pro movies are transferred at least 4000x2000 from base 24p film and then processed down for Blu-Ray and DVD. HD cinema cameras work at ~1920x1080p/24 but are mastered at bit rates in the 440 to 880 Mb/s range. These get processed down to less than 35Mb/s for 1920x1080p Blu-Ray or ~5 Mb/s for 720x480p DVD.

24p takes a full discipline and is not practical for causal camcorder use. Best to get some film school experience if 24p is your goal.

See my comments in this post re: 24p
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/294510-List-of-really-true-native-24P-1920x1080-AVC...mcorders/page2?

If you are shooting hand held action or sports, the best shooting format is 1280x720p at 59.94 fps.

Otherwise use good lighting and tripods for 1080i mode.

[luc13137]

ok m.edDV,I went to see your other thread,very informative,now that i know that i will re-phrase my question.
i have a sony hd 1080 60i that cost 500 canadian,i use movie magix to edit(because it is the best i could find that doen't use markers,like the old premiere),and i burn and make menu with
avstodvd(the only free software that i found that you can play with bit rate),my small little stupid movie is already
shot,now after i edit my movie and it is time to finalized everything on a dvd,what can i do to have the very very best image (as close possible from the original in hd)on my dvd.
so that is why i was asking about hollywood tricks.

[jagabo]

You have an interlaced 1920x1080 source and you need to resize it to 720x480. Resizing interlaced material requires special techniques. I don't know if the software you are using does it well. Most software doesn't do this well. AviSynth has tools that can do a very good job but it has a fairly steep learning curve. It uses text based scripts. A simple script might look like:

DirectShowSource("filename.ext")
SeparateFields()
BilinearResize(720,240)
Weave()

A really good script would look like:

DirectShowSource("filename.ext")
TempGaussMC_beta1mod()
 BilinearResize(720,480)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()

But TempGaussMC_beta1mod() is very slow. With a 1920x1080 source you're looking at several seconds per frame.

[edDV]

I agree with Jagabo this is a software downsize and encoding issue.

AviSynth can do it right for free but requires scripting skills to use.

Pro's use expensive software or hardware to do this. Programs like Premiere Pro and Vegas Pro don't do this as well. Movie Magix is a step below those.

So the choice is learn AviSynth or spend money for better quality.

[Ollie6431]

...
i have a sony hd 1080 60i that cost 500 canadian,..it is time to finalized everything on a dvd,what can i do to have the very very best image (as close possible from the original in hd)on my dvd.
so that is why i was asking about hollywood tricks.

If you already have your video in HD, it would be best to keep HD quality on an AVCHD-DVD (usually DVD-R) and play it on a bluray player. No bluray burner is needed. Converting to standard def DVD in any methods would still downgrade the video quality. If you have to get the video in standard def DVD for others to view, that would be a different issue.

[edDV]

Luc hasn't stated his goals but I'm assuming he wants to publish to the world in SD DVD. If this is for himself there are better options.

[luc13137]

don't want to publish anything,i tell you the truth,i go on tourist trip in cuba ,in mexico,in panama,instead of filming the hotel
and the place where i go ,in boring tourist styles(left right uncle ant),i make myself stories i have very good imagination,i come up wit some funny
scenario,all in my head ,i don't write anything,in january 2008 i made one all by myself ,filming myself with a tripod.playing
2 roles,(my first mission is to show the place where we are)after i edit everything,i gave my dvd to all the people that was in my group,
they all congratulated me ,some people even gave my dvd to other person i don't know,and they phone me to tell me it was good.
i like that,and being a little bit a perfectionist,i dislike seing a ugly image on the tv,with no money(i am not a rich guy)i want perfection
with the cheap stuff that i have ,because i know that the people watching my dvd are going to complain if the image is not
good.(just like my 2009 movie disgusting image)
and by the way movie magix does an excellent job de-interlacing,
so that's my story
now i hope you won't laugh at me,
i am just a regular joe that want perfection for my personal ego

[2Bdecided]

@jagab,

I think both the scripts you posted are bad starting points. The first causes a vertical misalignment between fields, the second uses a ridiculously slow deinterlacer - when it's been shown again and again over at doom9 that for interlaced HD > interlaced SD the quality of HD deinterlacing is irrelevant - any differences are completely invisible after the downsize.


@luc13137,

Your equipment is fine. If you're editing in HD 60i, and you want your NTSC DVD to look a bit more film-like / professional, I'd deinterlace to 30p and put that on DVD. If you wave your camcorder around like an idiotic amateur, then this won't work at all - but if you've taken care with the shots, this could look really nice.

Plenty of different options for going from HD 60i to SD 30p. Not sure if there's a reasonable one in the software you're using. If you want to share an HD sample of your footage, it would be easy to convert it to SD using different methods and show you what the results look like.

Cheers,
David.

[edDV]

...
i am just a regular joe that want perfection for my personal ego

Well we have told you how to do a "highest" quality 1080i to 480i conversion. If you are happy with Magix then use it.

If you want to edit and distribute in 1080i, you would need to export back to AVCHD format to a DVDR for playback on a BluRay player or the file could be played on computers or in many hardware media players like the $80 WDTV. You can also submit the file to YouTube or similar service for webcast playback. They will deinterlace and heavily compress it lowering quality.

24p or 30p conversion or origination are possible but will require disciplined shooting technique.

[luc13137]

funny enough ,i have de wdtv and it doesn't play the encoded file after the edit,but that's ok,my computer is connected to my hdtv also.
in case everybody doesn't know,i film in 1080 60i after the edit ,i encode it in 1280 x 720 29.97p in mpeg2,it is dinterlaced
with movie magix and with the conversion to 720 at 29.97.the image is fine enough,i was just looking for a way to put it on a dvd
with the best quality possible,and i was wondering about the hollywood way to do it.

[2Bdecided]

The biggest potential problem is in the conversion from 1920x1080i60 to 1280x720p30.

So you already have 1280x720p30 that you're happy with?

It should be fairly easy to go from that to a DVD that looks virtually identical (albeit at a lower resolution i.e. softer). Some software might mess it up (even some expensive software!), but in principle this is trivial stuff. There's no "Hollywood" magic involved in this step - though your software might be doing an interlaced conversion, which isn't optimal for your (at this stage) progressive source.

Cheers,
David.

[Khaver]

Make sure the encoder you use to convert your 1280x720 video to 720x480 mpeg2 uses 2 pass encoding. The first pass will analize each frame keeping track of how to optimize the use of the bitrate, taking biterate from areas that don't need as much and putting it toward the areas that need a higher bitrate. The second pass encodes using the information from the first pass. Your DVD will look better even though it's using the same average bitrate.

[luc13137]

I was doing-it in cbr at max bitrate settings,would i get a better result your way.?or exactly the same?

[Khaver]

Not sure if it would be the same. Try it and see.

[2Bdecided]

Max bitrate is already as good quality as you can get (with that encoder, unless it's broken).

Cheers,
David.

[jagabo]

What was the "max" bitrate? 9800 kbps?

[luc13137]

on a dvd it is 9000 mbps not kbps

[luc13137]

sorry i think maybe you are right
9000 kbps or 9 mbps is the same
and 9800 would the dvd max ,but avs to dvd goes only to 9000

[edDV]

You won't see much difference 9000 to max bit rate.

The more important issues are deinterlace (or don't deinterlace) and downsize.