camcorder dv to h.264

[aybills]

I'd like to archive all my camcorder dv files to my PC, and I'm hoping to identify a tool for DV to H.264 conversion (though I'm open to other codec suggestions). I would like the video to be standard definition "DVD quality" but with lower bitrates since MPEG2 files are still too large (albeit a lot smaller than the original DV). Encoding time is not a concern for me at all.

FYI, I considered using Windows Moviemaker to convert from DV to WMV for sheer simplicity, but I was hoping for better video quality and a more universal container/codec since I would like to archive these files *forever* so I'd like to minimize the risk that I may need to re-encode them several decades down the road.

The tools don't need to be freeware, nor the easiest to use. My priorities are video quality #1 and file size #2.

Thanks in advance!

[yoda313]

For permanent archives save the dv tapes to the dv codec and backup to a harddrive.

ANY compression will degrade the original quality.

WMV is pretty universal these days. You can increase the quality level or decrease as you want. It's pretty versatile.

Check the tools section for video conversion tools.

Super might accept dv codec avi files though I'm not sure. There are plenty of freeware and payware alternatives.

EDIT - Welcome to the forum!

[aybills]

Thanks for your response. Yes, I do plan to permanently archive the DV tapes. My desire to re-encode the files is just so that I have all of my home video conveniently on my PC and to facilitate sharing individual clips with others.

I do recognize that WMV is nearly ubiquitous today; but I am somewhat reluctant to use a proprietary format since a few decades is an eternity in terms of PC evolution.

On a related note, does Windows Movie Maker allow me to adjust the quality settings directly for WMV or do I need a 3rd party utility?

[yoda313]

There are multiple wmv settings. You can go from pocket pc to high def. There are also multiple web sharing settings for streaming.

[edDV]

The big quality drop comes from the need to deinterlace.

Use WME (Windows Media 9 Encoder) for greater encoding control.

[PuzZLeR]

The best SD deliverable, rather compressed, format, which is universally accepted, and will be for a long, long time is MPEG-2 using the DvD spec if you want to compress and archive.

However, if MPEG-2 is still too large for you, and you still want a "forever" or good future-proof video format in SD, then I would recommend H.264 or VC-1 in the blu-ray spec. Both video formats are open standards, not proprietary.

H.264 in fact *is* an MPEG codec despite its funny name, and can be played back in SD format on blu-ray in small file sizes and high quality. There's some rather expensive payware that does this, but the best freeware is MeGUI, using x264's blu-ray profile. RipBot264 does blu-ray too. Just use the correct resolution and fps.

VC-1 is actually an evolution of WMV, however has been released by the MS parade to be an open standard, and has also been accepted on blu-ray. If you're going to use WMV, and don't want proprietary, and want something futureproofed, then I would say use VC-1.

SD's true home is still very much MPEG-2/DvD, and will be for a very long time, if not forever, however, if you want more compression and great compatibility, I would say keeping the blu-ray SD spec in the two more modern codecs is your best bet.

[edDV]

VC-1 (aka SMPTE 421) can also retain interlace which is good for DV. Bit rate determines quality.

"Broadcast quality" interlace NTSC 480i or PAL 576i takes 10Mb/s using advanced profile L1.

[FulciLives]

Out of curiosity can you do a MP4 with H.264 and AAC-LC audio that is interlaced?

I wonder how this would work and playback on a device like a PS3 or XboX 360 ... hmmm?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[aybills]

I tried using encoding into WMV using Windows Movie Maker. Aside from DV-AVI capture, the best "quality setting" offered was "High Quality Video (Large)" which uses VBR encoding. The video sample I used (which was not especially busy) ended up encoding at ~3.3Mbps (the highest quality WMV CBR option was 2.1Mbps). So the file size was fine - about 25MB/min, but the quality was terrible. Lots of video artifacts.

Any tips on how to improve the quality using Windows Movie Maker (somewhere closer to the original recording).

If not, I still would appreciate any tips on encoding DV-AVI to H.264.

Thanks again!

[FulciLives]

@aybills

Any chance you can upload a small clip ... raw DV-AVI ... I would like to download and "play" with it. See what I can come up with etc.

There are websites such as rapidshare.com that will allow you to host files for free (usually there is a 100MB limit on files) thus allowing anyone to download for free.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Looks like rapidshare.com now allows files up to 200MB although anything a few seconds long (with movement inside the frame) would be great.

[poisondeathray]

@Fulci - actually some European transport streams come in h264 and AAC audio. Some channels are interlaced, some are progressive. Usually the big problem is the audio, which is the LATM/LAOS variety of AAC, and not easily transformed. While dgavcdec can demux the audio, there is no decoder currently available to decode or transform it, except winamp. The workaround is converting it to .wav using winamp.

@aybills - Just to add if you are considering h264, while the compression and quality are great, it's not very friendly to edit (with frame accuracy) using the current generation of applications - at least not as easy as MPEG or DV-AVI. Part of the reason is because of the high compression, and part of the reason is limited PAFF support with current decoders. You can do simple edits without re-encoding with h264ts_cutter, but it is not perfect, and sometimes you get a few corrupted frames at the cut site. You usually can frameserve using dgavcdec and avisynth, but again, not the most user friendly.

You can encode DV-AVI to h264 using any of the free x264 front ends. (e.g. MeGUI, xvid4psp, ripbot264, staxrip, a few others...) Most will use avisynth to frameserve, thus you need to use something like ffdshow and enable the DV in the ffdshow configuration (its OFF by default)

[aybills]

@Fulci - I don't have an ftp server set up, so I will try to upload something to one of my photosharing services tomorrow. I really appreciate your willingness to help!

@poison - For now, I'm primarily interested in having a reduced size archive on my PC so I don't need a solution which is edit-friendly. For video editing, I will continue using the original DV clips since I also wish to preserve the highest quality.

I tried using MeGUI + AVISynth to convert the DV-AVI to H.264, but when I tried to enter an AVISynth script, I got an error where it couldn't locate a decompressor for fourcc dvsd. Since I am a newbie at this, I figured I'd probably run into a series of issues like this - all of which would be quite foreign to me.

[poisondeathray]

Enable DV in the ffdshow configuration. DirectShowSource() + avisynth should work for either DV Type-1 and Type-2. It should read "libavcodec" in the drop down menu, instead of "disabled"

[aybills]

@poison - Thank you very much! I'll give that a try!

@Fulci - you can download a 5-second clip at http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/mT_GQk5X/1378781/2628531

Thanks again!

[poisondeathray]

I think Fulci requested a raw-dv sample, the link has processed video (flash). You can see combing artifacts in the "karate kids" sample. If you plan to post flash videos, you might consider deinterlacing

If anyone is looking for a library of different kinds of video clips, mplayer hosts different kinds. You can find samples of virtually all codecs/formats if you dig into the directories deep enough. DV type1, type2 and raw are represented there as well Fulci, but they are not the best quality samples

http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/

[aybills]

the site re-renders the video for viewing, but the full resolution original file is available for download as well via one of the links on the right.

i also enabled DV on ffdshow, and confirmed that the new settings were applied, but i still get the same "couldn't locate a decompressor" error.

[poisondeathray]

Did you press apply? and "ok"? and exit the config

I can't seem to download your raw clip, the "download video" option gives me a DivX file

[aybills]

Yes. I even closed down both apps, and relaunched them and confirmed the settings had been applied.

I also confirmed that the original video isn't available for download. Unfortunately the site seems to host only the re-rendered video.

I'll look around for more file sharing alternatives. Unfortunately, even the 5 second clip is nearly 25MB, which exceeds the limit on the free file hosting sites which I have tried.

On a side note, I don't think there's anything which is unique to my DV-AVI. I am using a mainstream Panasonic PV-GS250. Windows Movie Maker and my Mac's iMovie seem to handle the video just fine.

[poisondeathray]

mediafire, megaupload, rapidshare, sendspace all have >=100MB free hosting

Please post your .avs script, perhaps there is an error there?

EDIT: I looked at your error message again: since you are using AVISource(), you need to enable DV in the ffdshow vfw configuration (the brown colored icon, not red). AVISource() relies on VFW (video for windows)

If you were using DirectShowSource(), you need to enable DV in the regular ffdshow configuration (as you have done above in the screenshot)

Cheers

[FulciLives]

I need a decent NTSC DV AVI sample.

I downloaded one from the mplayer site as posted by poisondeathray but the quality was so horrible that it is hard to see what is going on.

I did convert to MP4 using x.264 and 256kbps AAC-LC audio. I then converted back to DV AVI and the whole time I kept it interlaced. It seemed to work but damn the sample I had was horrible in quality.

I need a better quality source.

By the way ... the MP4 was only roughly half the size of the DV AVI file. I would have expected a smaller size but then again the clip was from a VHS cartoon with a lot of video noise and black wavy side bars and VHS switching noise on the bottom and a rainbow top. Not very compressible I guess LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
As I said before you can host the file at rapidshare.com as they have a 200MB limit per file and you don't even need to join to use the service.

[rumplestiltskin]

You also might try MPEG Streamclip which does H264 quite nicely with lots of tweaking capabilities.

[mpack]

I do recognize that WMV is nearly ubiquitous today; but I am somewhat reluctant to use a proprietary format since a few decades is an eternity in terms of PC evolution.

Good point, especially when it's a Microsoft proprietary format: MS have a nasty habit of promoting a "standard" and then junking it in favor of some new fashion after a relatively short time. If the wider community settles on it as a standard (eg. like AVI) then it's safe, otherwise I would agree with your caution.

[aybills]

Thanks for the filesharing recommendations! Here's the link to a 5 second DV-AVI clip.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=G2CDGIXU

FYI, I'll be gone for the labor day weekend, so please pardon any delays in my follow up. Thanks again for all of your assistance! Have a great weekend!

[poisondeathray]

Your DV-AVI is fine, it is Type-1. Most programs do not like Type-1, there are free converters (http://www.ulead.com/download/dvconverter/download.htm) , but this is not necessary if you are frameserving using directshow. Type-1 DV files are not compatible with VFW, so that is why your previous script using Avisource() didn't work - it uses VFW. DirectShowSource() works for both types, since it uses direct show. If you must use AviSource() for some reason, then you must convert to Type-2 (and enable "DV" in the ffdshow VFW settings, not the regular non-vfw ffdshow configuration)

I just used some quick default settings with crf20 (constant quality mode) using x264, deinterlaced, IVTC'd. You could tweak settings to your liking, better or worse quality, leave it interlaced etc... It just happened to be about ~1/6 original size with this encode. If you wanted an exact filesize, for example, exactly fit a DVD, you would have to use a 2pass encode

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VFAHRHVT

Cheers

[Coma]

I was able to get the DV on megaupload to decode using AVISource() by going to the ffdshow VFW Codec configuration (should be right below the video decoder configuration in the Start menu) and turning on DV decoding.

What you turned on was the DirectShow decoding, so...

And poisondeathray: IVTC'd? But this is pure interlaced. If you turn off your field matcher's PP then you'll see it doesn't do anything.
And what's worse, it seems you decimated it to 23.976 fps. That DV is native 59.94 field per sec, so at worst you should decimate to 29.97 fps, and optimally you should bob it to 59.94 fps and keep it there.

Watch the DV side by side with your mp4 and you'll see it's much smoother.
In the future it's probably better to use MVTools or even convertfps to "add motion blur" to attempt to reduce the choppyness introduced by the lower FPS.


And OP: if this is just for archival, then ideally you would leave something like this interlaced and encode it interlaced so that later you can put it, interlaced, on a DVD and preserve the smooth motion.

[aybills]

Thanks! I have finally been able to *successfully* convert to DV using MeGUI + AVISynth (enabling DV in the VFW config), though I haven't been able to figure out how to activate the deinterlacer. I've been using all the default settings within MeGUI and have only been specifying the target bitrate.

I uploaded a sample video which was encoded at 2mbps, or you can compare the differences between my video and poisondeathray's below.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BWDS2UVH

Or just note the screenshot below which shows the interlacing problem.

[aybills]

Correction: My video tkd4096 was encoded at 4mbps rather than my previously stated 2mbps.

[poisondeathray]

Thanks for the tips, Coma. As you can probably tell, I rarely deal with DV these days, but I love to learn

The sample given was 29.97 true interlaced, how would you encode at 59.94? Do you just double up the frames?

I didn't notice much difference in "choppiness" between 29.97 and 23.976. Perhaps you cannot decode h264 or AAC properly on your system? The other possibility is that you used Quicktime or some other poor player to play it back, which does not support the higher quality features of h264. For example, more than 2 b-frames will cause studdering. If you played it back in a decent media player like VLC, Mplayer, or MPC it will play fine assuming you have a capable system.

My impression was that size reduction was most important, and this is what I would do for the 20% reduction, of course aybills has to make that decision himself. I suggest you do a few tests to figure out what settings work best for your needs

If quality was more important, of course I would just leave the original.

@aybills, your encode had 1:1 pixels, so the display aspect ratio was 1.5 on a 720x480 frame. Normal DV has 4/3 aspect ratio. If you wanted to preserve this aspect ratio you need to include these lines in your .avs script

global MeGUI_darx = 4
global MeGUI_dary = 3

Note not media players will respect the aspect ratio flag. If you play it in MPC or Mplayer, you will notice the difference.

Also you are using "lower" quality settings (which might be compatible with Quicktime), but are not as high in quality. (Maybe this was on purpose?) Try updating your MeGUI using the development servers in the configuration, and download new profiles

If you are happy with the way things are, just leave it. If you wanted more instruction on deinterlacing or decimating, let me know.

Cheers

[aybills]

Thanks for the tip regarding aspect ratio. I assumed that the aspect ratio would be preserved based on the original, but apparently not. I'll modify the .avs script as you suggested.

Regarding the quality settings, I tried a several different encoder settings such as x264: *scratchpad*; Unrestricted 1 Pass Const. Quality HQ; and Unrestricted 2 Pass HQ and at different bitrates.

I am almost satisfied with my video conversion if not for the obviously visible interlacing. If you could advise how I can deinterlace the video, I think I'll be good to go. Basically, I would be quite happy to have my conversion settings exactly as you had set for the sample which you converted.

Thanks again!

[poisondeathray]

I just used Yadif, which is a smart deinterlacer. (bottom field first usually for DV)
You can add these to your script (adjust the path if you put it in a different directory)

Load_Stdcall_Plugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\yadif.dll")
Yadif(order=0)

When you make adjustments to the profiles, but don't save them, they become the scratchpad (so you leave the profile intact). The scratchpad is just a "temporary profile"

Note that the default profiles are (-1,-1) for deblocking, I suggest you change it back to (0,0) for most encodes. It's just that the author, Sharktooth, prefers sharper encodes, but I think it causes artifacting on occasion.

There's many tweaks that you can do, but if you use that default "unrestricted 1 pass HQ" it's a pretty good balance between encoding speed and quality. In your screenshot, crf18 is selected by default. Lower quantizers will give you higher quality (and bigger filesize/bitrate). Most people use between 18-22. If you need a specific size (e.g. you might want to fit exactly on 1 dvd size), use 2pass mode instead with a bitrate calculator.

Cheers