Delayed Links, Motion Menu and DVD Lab Pro 2

[christopheramos]

Hey everyone. I'm not new to authoring, and I've been using DVD Lab Pro (now version 2) for several years now. But I never made a motion menu with delayed links. I've read the guide and what few tutorials I've found here, but I'm still not getting something right. Here is what I'm doing:

1. I take a small .mpeg 2 movie that I want to use for my motion menu. I load it into DVD Lab Pro 2 and demux it into .mpv and .ac3 files,

2. I move the .mpv and .ac3 into the menu. No problem.

3. I want to created text links to select between a number of movies to watch. I want the links to appear about 10 seconds into the motion video, not at the beginning,

4. I've tried setting the links on a blank menu before loading the files; loading the files first then setting the links; creating 2 cells with an attempt to set up delayed links in the 2nd cell; and tried doing different combinations of all of these both with and without using the render feature.

Nothing that I'm doing works. The final DVD will have either (1) the text links appear at the beginning of the motion menu, or (2) the links won't appear at all.

Arrrrrgggggg!!!!! Any ideas????

Thanks!!
Chris

[guns1inger]

Here is how I do it, because I hate the render motion facility in DLP.

I create my video background in Vegas. This includes any text that is required. This also allows me to have the text fade in use a variety of effects if necessary, and gives me the greatest level of control. I also design the clips so that at a point after the text fades in, a section of clip can be easily looped. This includes fades in the audio to match as well.

I bring this into DLP as a menu background, and create a second cell that starts where the loppable section of video begins. This means the menus starts, the text appears, and the menu only loops where the text is, and not from the beginning of the clip. In this second cell I create the markers that are required to indicate which menu item is being selected. These might be as simple as an under-line under the text, or it may be a graphic symbol - whatever is required.

By doing this, there is never a need to Render Motion in DLP. I have made many motion menus this way, and never had a problem.

[christopheramos]

Thanks Guns1inger. That sounds like pretty much what I've been trying to do.

I built a motion menu in Adobe After Effects. It looks great. The images swoop in, just like I want. I went back and changed it to where the text (which will be my links) fade in.

Okay, then I render it to .avi (I can't figure out how to render it to .mpeg, as I am just learning After Affects, but that's no big deal, because I just use Main Concept to re-encode the .avi to an .mpeg2).

Then I load it into DLP. I drag the elementry streams onto a blank, black menu. I create a second cell, just after the point where the text fades in. Here is where I get stuck. If I import buttons at this exact time, and link them to the movies I want to select from, that should work, right? But I can't get them to appear when the video is compiled. I don't like the render feature in DLP either. I must be missing something simple (p.s., I loop the cell, like you say, but the buttons still don't appear). Hmmmm.

Thanks for your advice!
-Chris

[guns1inger]

Are you trying to create all the text in DLP ?

If so, you must do a render from within DLP to embed the text into the video, then re-encode the avi file DLP create back into MPG and re-import it. This is why I do all the text work in my editor (Vegas).

Make sure you create your text in After Effects. All you want to do in DLP is create the sub-pictures - the effect that indicates what option you are about to choose.

[GeorgeW]

Are you expecting full-color buttons, or just a highlight for your button links?

Also, what are your MAP settings for NORMAL / SELECTED / ACTIVATED?

Can you go Project / Generate Report / Links & Commands -- and post the text results here?

Regards,
George

[ihmcjacky]

Are you trying to create all the text in DLP ?

If so, you must do a render from within DLP to embed the text into the video, then re-encode the avi file DLP create back into MPG and re-import it. This is why I do all the text work in my editor (Vegas).

Make sure you create your text in After Effects. All you want to do in DLP is create the sub-pictures - the effect that indicates what option you are about to choose.

Just borrow some spaces here to ask guns1inger
Is there any differences between the vegas and after effects in creating the motion part?
I haven't use after effects before, is this software better when comparing with vegas?
What are their major difference? Sorry if I have asked silly Q
Please see this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dKeJ9i3aVcY
If i wanna do this kind of motion menu, is after effects better or vegas?
Regards ihmcjacky~

[christopheramos]

Hey again Guns1inger. Thanks for the reply. Well, at first I was trying to add the text links in DLP. But then I went back into After Effects and created the text and set them to fade in. Then I imported that video into DLP. Now I'm trying to create buttons to appear in DLP right next to those text lines, at a specified time (Cell 2), and trying to set up links using those buttons. Still working on that option.

Also, as to George W's question, I've tried different Map settings in DLP (Normal, Select and Activate), with different colors. My first thought was that I had the map colors set to match the background, and thus couldn't see the links. But I checked, and that's not a problem.

Thanks guys! -Chris

[GeorgeW]

How far in until the menu buttons appear? I ask in case you are hitting FastForward during the intro section -- it's possible you will blow past the section that the buttons should appear, and you will not see them (you should disable FF/REW/NEXT in the UOPS for your menu).

Also, can you generate that report I asked for in my earlier post?

Regards,
George

[christopheramos]

Okay, I tried it again but differently, and it still didn’t work. Here’s what I did:

1. Created the full motion menu in After Effects,
2. Loaded the video into DLP,
3. Dragged the elementary streams onto a black, blank menu (the root menu),
4. Created a 2nd cell where the text fully fades in (and told Cell 1 to go to Cell 2),
5. Looped Cell 2 to that point so it repeats itself,
6. Created a button next to the text that I want the DVD to play,
7. Linked the button to that movie,
8. Did NOT use the render feature,
9. Compiled the DVD.

When I compiled the DVD, it plays, but the button does not appear, and the menu
still loops back to the very beginning of the motion video. The button link that I
created is valid, otherwise DLP would have given me a warning that there were no
valid links.

Here is what the compile report says:

*** DVD Lab Pro Verification Log ***
4 - 28 - 2008 -- 15:25:29

************************
* *
* VMG Verification *
* *
************************

Number of VTS - 1
Number of Menus: 1

Menu 01 - Type - Dummy
Number of imported VTS: 0

************************
* *
* VTS Verification *
* *
************************

<<< VTS Number 1 >>>
Number of Titles: 4

Title 01 - Type - ES or PES
Segment 1, Video File D:\My Shows\HM S1 and S2\S2\Disc 1\warnings.mpv
Frame Size: 720 X 480
Frame Rate 4 [1--23.976, 2--24, 4--29.97, 3--25, 5--30]
Aspect Ratio: 43 [43--4:3, 169--16:9]
MPEG Video Type: 2 [1--MPEG 1, 2--MPEG 2]
Chroma: 1 [1--4:2:0, 2--4:2:2, 3--4:4:4]
GOP 1, size - 125975
GOP 2, size - 11776
GOP 3, size - 11776
Segment 1, Audio File D:\My Shows\HM S1 and S2\S2\Disc 1\warnings.ac3
Audio type: AC3_Mot, Channel: 2, Sampling: 48000, Bitrate: 256000
Segment 1, Subtitle File : None

Title 02 - Type - ES or PES
Segment 1, Video File D:\My Shows\HM S1 and S2\S2\Disc 1\3 sec black time.mpv
Frame Size: 720 X 480
Frame Rate 4 [1--23.976, 2--24, 4--29.97, 3--25, 5--30]
Aspect Ratio: 43 [43--4:3, 169--16:9]
MPEG Video Type: 2 [1--MPEG 1, 2--MPEG 2]
Chroma: 1 [1--4:2:0, 2--4:2:2, 3--4:4:4]
GOP 1, size - 179891
GOP 2, size - 11776
GOP 3, size - 11776
Segment 1, Audio File : None

Segment 1, Subtitle File : None

Title 03 - Type - ES or PES
Segment 1, Video File D:\My Shows\HM S1 and S2\S2\Disc 1\Lighthorse (video).mpv
Frame Size: 720 X 480
Frame Rate 4 [1--23.976, 2--24, 4--29.97, 3--25, 5--30]
Aspect Ratio: 43 [43--4:3, 169--16:9]
MPEG Video Type: 2 [1--MPEG 1, 2--MPEG 2]
Chroma: 1 [1--4:2:0, 2--4:2:2, 3--4:4:4]
GOP 1, size - 9778
GOP 2, size - 29638
GOP 3, size - 41614
Segment 1, Audio File D:\My Shows\HM S1 and S2\S2\Disc 1\Lighthorse (audio).ac3
Audio type: AC3_Mot, Channel: 2, Sampling: 48000, Bitrate: 256000
Segment 1, Subtitle File : None

Title 04 - Type - ES or PES
Segment 1, Video File D:\My Shows\HM S1 and S2\S2\Disc 1\01 Me and Rico Down By the School Yard.mpv
Frame Size: 720 X 480
Frame Rate 4 [1--23.976, 2--24, 4--29.97, 3--25, 5--30]
Aspect Ratio: 43 [43--4:3, 169--16:9]
MPEG Video Type: 2 [1--MPEG 1, 2--MPEG 2]
Chroma: 1 [1--4:2:0, 2--4:2:2, 3--4:4:4]
GOP 1, size - 42158
GOP 2, size - 50156
GOP 3, size - 17199
Segment 1, Audio File D:\My Shows\HM S1 and S2\S2\Disc 1\01 Me and Rico Down By the School Yard.ac3
Audio type: AC3_Mot, Channel: 2, Sampling: 48000, Bitrate: 256000
Segment 1, Subtitle File : None

Number of Menus: 2

Menu 01 - Type - Dummy

Menu 02 - Type - Motion
Menu Video File D:\My Shows\HM S1 and S2\S2\Disc 1\Motion Menu.mpv
Frame size: 720 X 480
Frame rate 4 [1--23.976, 2--24, 4--29.97, 3--25, 5--30]
Aspect Ratio: 43 [43--4:3, 169--16:9]
MPEG Video Type: 2 [1--MPEG 1, 2--MPEG 2]
Chroma: 1 [1--4:2:0, 2--4:2:2, 3--4:4:4]
GOP 1, size - 317406
GOP 2, size - 469685
GOP 3, size - 464077
Menu Audio File D:\My Shows\HM S1 and S2\S2\Disc 1\Motion Menu Audio.ac3
Audio type: AC3_Mot, Channel: 2, Sampling: 48000, Bitrate: 256000
Menu Sub-Picture File C:\Temp\55259176_tmpsub1.bmp
Picture size - 720 x 480
nMenu cell count - 1

************************
* *
* Status Messages *
* *
************************
Start building Video Title Set ( VTS ) ... - 2001
Title - 1
Start building VOB streams - 2210
Muxing elementary streams is in process ... - 2220
Initializing audio packets ... - 3005
Initializing AC3 (MOT) audio packet ... - 3030
[INFO] - No subtitle stream is provided - 3739
Verifying Closed Caption file is in process ... - 3750
Muxing is in process ... - 2300
Audio packetizing ends - 3025
Creating PGC for the title is in process ... - 2500
Title - 2
Start building VOB streams - 2210
Muxing elementary streams is in process ... - 2220
[INFO] - No audio stream is provided - 3019
[INFO] - No subtitle stream is provided - 3739
Verifying Closed Caption file is in process ... - 3750
Muxing is in process ... - 2300
Creating PGC for the title is in process ... - 2500
Title - 3
Start building VOB streams - 2210
Muxing elementary streams is in process ... - 2220
Initializing audio packets ... - 3005
Initializing AC3 (MOT) audio packet ... - 3030
[INFO] - No subtitle stream is provided - 3739
Verifying Closed Caption file is in process ... - 3750
Muxing is in process ... - 2300
Audio packetizing ends - 3025
Creating PGC for the title is in process ... - 2500
Title - 4
Start building VOB streams - 2210
Muxing elementary streams is in process ... - 2220
Initializing audio packets ... - 3005
Initializing AC3 (MOT) audio packet ... - 3030
[INFO] - No subtitle stream is provided - 3739
Verifying Closed Caption file is in process ... - 3750
Muxing is in process ... - 2300
Audio packetizing ends - 3025
Creating PGC for the title is in process ... - 2500
Creating dummy menu is in process ... - 2790
Creating motion menu is in process ... - 2600
Initializing audio packets ... - 3005
Initializing AC3 (MOT) audio packet ... - 3030
Muxing is in process ... - 2300
Audio packetizing ends - 3025
Building VTS IFO stream is in process ... - 2800
Start building Video Manager (VMG) ... - 2005
Creating dummy menu is in process ... - 2790
Creating still menu is in process ... - 2700
Start encoding bitmap ... - 2750
Reading bitmap is in process ... - 2740
[INFO] - No audio stream is provided - 3019
Encoding bitmap and building VOBU is in process ... - 2450
Building VMG IFO stream is in process ... - 2850

*** Post Verification ***

No error was found in the post verification process

Authoring is successfully completed - 3900

Hey again GeorgeW. As to you question about the disable of FF/REW/NEXT in the UOPS, I have not tried it, but will. But the buttons don't appear anyway. If that matters.

[christopheramos]

Sorry GeorgeW, I posted a different report. Here is the report you requested:

Project Links & Commands
S2D1.dal

First Play: Link to Movie 1 (Black Time)
Title Button: Link to Movie 1 (Black Time)

VMG Menus
-none-

VTS 1 Menus
Menu: "Root Menu"
Nr. of Cells: 1
CELL 1:
Timeout: 255 Default Btn: 1
End Link: -none-

VTS 1 Movies
Movie: "Movie 2 (Warnings)" Chapters: 1
End Link: Lighthorse Intro
Movie: "Movie 1 (Black Time)" Chapters: 1
End Link: Movie 2 (Warnings)
Movie: "Lighthorse Intro" Chapters: 1
End Link: Root Menu
Movie: "Episode 01" Chapters: 1
End Link: Root Menu


You know, I don't know if it matters, but here is how I have my project set up:

blank black video (3 seconds) --> copyright warnings video ---> company logo video ---> Root Menu

I don't know if having 3 different videos play before getting to the root menu is a possible cause. I've compiled a ton of DVDs this way (but never one with a motion menu), and never had any problems.

[christopheramos]

Okay, here is where I'm at: I managed to get the DVD to show the button. But -- (1) the menu starts to play all over again once its time is up, even though cell 2 tells it to loop from a certain point, (2) the button appears on the entire menu, before the images and text fade in, and (3) when I click the button to play the movie, it starts to play the motion menu all over again.

I didn't use the render feature, so I don't know why the button is still on the screen anyway. Geeze!!!!!

[GeorgeW]

Menu 02 - Type - Motion
Menu Video File D:\My Shows\HM S1 and S2\S2\Disc 1\Motion Menu.mpv
Frame size: 720 X 480
Frame rate 4 [1--23.976, 2--24, 4--29.97, 3--25, 5--30]
Aspect Ratio: 43 [43--4:3, 169--16:9]
MPEG Video Type: 2 [1--MPEG 1, 2--MPEG 2]
Chroma: 1 [1--4:2:0, 2--4:2:2, 3--4:4:4]
GOP 1, size - 317406
GOP 2, size - 469685
GOP 3, size - 464077
Menu Audio File D:\My Shows\HM S1 and S2\S2\Disc 1\Motion Menu Audio.ac3
Audio type: AC3_Mot, Channel: 2, Sampling: 48000, Bitrate: 256000
Menu Sub-Picture File C:\Temp\55259176_tmpsub1.bmp
Picture size - 720 x 480
nMenu cell count - 1

VTS 1 Menus
Menu: "Root Menu"
Nr. of Cells: 1
CELL 1:
Timeout: 255 Default Btn: 1
End Link: -none-

These indicate your menu only has ONE cell -- did you add a second cell

[guns1inger]

Are you trying to create all the text in DLP ?

If so, you must do a render from within DLP to embed the text into the video, then re-encode the avi file DLP create back into MPG and re-import it. This is why I do all the text work in my editor (Vegas).

Make sure you create your text in After Effects. All you want to do in DLP is create the sub-pictures - the effect that indicates what option you are about to choose.

Just borrow some spaces here to ask guns1inger
Is there any differences between the vegas and after effects in creating the motion part?
I haven't use after effects before, is this software better when comparing with vegas?
What are their major difference? Sorry if I have asked silly Q
Please see this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dKeJ9i3aVcY
If i wanna do this kind of motion menu, is after effects better or vegas?
Regards ihmcjacky~

Assuming you have all the source material, you could do it in either. Some of the source is video, some of it is 3D work created specifically for the menu, and some is just motion graphics. It would be time consuming to do in either, simply because of the amount of work. I could replicate it in Vegas or After Effects. The trick is not which package, but how well you know it.

[jrsdsl]

Okay, here is where I'm at: I managed to get the DVD to show the button. But -- (1) the menu starts to play all over again once its time is up, even though cell 2 tells it to loop from a certain point, (2) the button appears on the entire menu, before the images and text fade in, and (3) when I click the button to play the movie, it starts to play the motion menu all over again.

I didn't use the render feature, so I don't know why the button is still on the screen anyway. Geeze!!!!!

Not any expert by any means with DVD Lab, but I seem to rember trying to accomplish the same thing you are and did manage to suceed all in DLP. GeorgeW is probably right, you don't seem to have a 2nd cell.

I believe the DLP help file should give you some tips on this type of menu. Did you search it? I managed to get my sub menus (for my chapters) to return to a main looping menu only at the loop point-2nd cell (had to search the MediaChance forums for that trick which involved some VM commands. Also, didn't the render motion menu page have an option to cut objects, buttons, etc., for a amount of time you can enter? That might not help the looping issue though.

Good luck, you'll figure it out.

[guns1inger]

Adding a cell is as simple as clicking on the Add Cell button. From there you can visually drag it to where you need it to be on the timeline.

Where you need to start playing with VM commands is when you want have a higher level of control over where the viewer returns to when the menu is run again.