fitting four hours on 4.7 GB DVD

[cthiesen]

My computer receives my cable TV signal through an analog video card over S-video cables.

I can capture the signal with the Roxio software that came with the card. I can even figure out how to edit it, but I can't seem to get four hours of movie on a 4.7 GB DVD. (My standalone Panasonic burner had no trouble with this when it worked.)

I'm willing to pay for other software to do this. (I hate Roxio in any case.) But I'm starting to be concerned that it's not possible.

Is it possible to burn a four hour movie to a 4.7 GB DVD (NTSC for viewing on a US DVD player)?

Thanks very much from an obvious newbie.

- charles thiesen

[SCDVD]

Yes - BUT - the video quality will be pretty bad.

[redwudz]

Just lower the MPEG bitrate till it fits. A quick check with a bitrate calculator shows about 2300kbps. I would look into 1/2 D1 format to make the best use of a fairly low bitrate. See 'WHAT IS' DVD to the upper left for the DVD specification for 1/2 D1. It will still be DVD compliant.

You could try a short sample encode with full D1 and 1/2 D1 at that bitrate and compare the results.

What video card are you using for capture and in what format?

And welcome to our forums.

[cthiesen]

Just lower the MPEG bitrate till it fits. A quick check with a bitrate calculator shows about 2300kbps. I would look into 1/2 D1 format to make the best use of a fairly low bitrate. See 'WHAT IS' DVD to the upper left for the DVD specification for 1/2 D1. It will still be DVD compliant.

You could try a short sample encode with full D1 and 1/2 D1 at that bitrate and compare the results.

What video card are you using for capture and in what format?

And welcome to our forums.

I'm using an ATI AVStream Analog card that came with my new Dell Vista (ptui!) computer. Roxio Creator 9 also came with it so I captured a 3 hour movie as a test but couldn't seem to get it small enough.

TMpgenc DVD Author and Mpeg Video Wizard DVD have both been recommended here and I'd get one of them if it allowed doing this the way you suggest.

Thanks very much for the swift reply and the welcome. I'm an extremely savvy computer user, a tech writer, but in the world of video I"m a total newbie, so I greatly appreciate it.

- charles

[SmokieStover]

Use Tmpg DVD Author and author in two parts and burn two DVD's....they are certainly cheap enough! The Tmpg software has a built it mpg cut editor, frame accurate and will only re-encode a very small part of the video either side of the cut(s). It will also burn the DVD(s) if you want.

If you were to do very much of this using recordings with ads, I would edit with VideoReDo and author with Tmpg. VideoReDo also has an all in one package called TV Suite.....I'm happy with the aforesaid combination so haven't given TV Suite a try.

Could you use G Spot on the video file and post the results?

[lordsmurf]

352x480 MPEG with 2.5Mb/s with a good encoding software will be perfectly fine to produce 4 hours on a DVD. I've done it many times.

2 hours at 720x480 is the same quality as 4 hours at 352x480, on a good encoder.

Panasonic DVD recorders are terrible encoders, and Roxio is not very high quality either. 4 hours using these tools will look awful. Blocks and noise.

[bendixG15]

The sensible way to put a 4 hour movie on a 4.7 gb DVD is to use TWO DVDs and retain some quality. I personally would use 3 DVDs, 80 minutes each, which gives maximum quality.

The point is, why cram everything onto one DVD and kill the quality. You certainly are not going to sit there glued to the TV for 4 hours. Follow Hollywood when they made a long running movie...they stuck in an intermission.

[cthiesen]

352x480 MPEG with 2.5Mb/s with a good encoding software will be perfectly fine to produce 4 hours on a DVD. I've done it many times.

I don't even know what questions to ask to get software that will allow me to do that. Is the encoding software the software that captures the signal? Can you suggest good encoding software?

2 hours at 720x480 is the same quality as 4 hours at 352x480, on a good encoder.

I assume the encoder is the DVD burner that came with the computer. I guess I'll start with what's there and see if I need to get something better once I've mastered the basics.

Panasonic DVD recorders are terrible encoders, and Roxio is not very high quality either. 4 hours using these tools will look awful. Blocks and noise.

It wasn't great, but I've always been more interested in dramatic content than picture quality. Plus the Panasonic can only burn fairly expensive disks. Believe me I've created a on of coasters.

Thanks so much for the detailed response.

- charles[/quote]

[cthiesen]

The sensible way to put a 4 hour movie on a 4.7 gb DVD is to use TWO DVDs and retain some quality. I personally would use 3 DVDs, 80 minutes each, which gives maximum quality.

The point is, why cram everything onto one DVD and kill the quality. You certainly are not going to sit there glued to the TV for 4 hours. Follow Hollywood when they made a long running movie...they stuck in an intermission.

Good questions. The signal from my cable company wasn't that much better than the quality of four hours on a disk. (The signal has improved lately though, but not so much that I'd see any improvement spreading over three disks.) Also the burner had problems with anything but expensive disks.

Actually, storage is a problem for me, too, and that becomes a criterion that argues against two or three disks instead of one, if the quality isn't that different.

But your questions do help me remember that I'm faced with a plethora of new options. And all the help I'm getting here will get me closer to understanding how to take advantage of them.

Thanks,
- charles

[edDV]

Back to original question

Is it possible to burn a four hour movie to a 4.7 GB DVD (NTSC for viewing on a US DVD player)?

Why does this have to be all on a 25 cent single layer DVD?
Why a single layer and not double layer?
Does this absolutely need to play on an average DVD player?

[AlanHK]

352x480 MPEG with 2.5Mb/s with a good encoding software will be perfectly fine to produce 4 hours on a DVD. I've done it many times.

I don't even know what questions to ask to get software that will allow me to do that. Is the encoding software the software that captures the signal? Can you suggest good encoding software?

This encoder creates the MPEG2 video.
You use the MPEG files, plus the audio to author the DVD (i.e. create the VOB fileset).
And finally, you burn this to your DVD.

There are packages that combine all these functions, but it's more flexible to use separate utilites. Cheaper too.

You have to read up on the How-tos though: https://www.videohelp.com/guides

Anyway, HCEnc is a good free MPEG encoder.

[SmokieStover]

Encoding as mentioned by others applies to DV AVI or lesser compressed video. Mpg2 is already encoded and highly compressed.

Download Media info and use it to analyse your video file, then post the info here.

I would guess your ATI card hardware encodes to mpg2, 720X480 (mpa at 384kbs), at video bitrates of 4.0, 6.0, or 8.0 Mbs, just like the ATI Wonder Elite (550 Pro Card). 4.0 Mbs will allow 2 hours 18 minutes per single layer DVD and is pretty good if the input is very good, 6.0 Mbs will allow 1 Hour 34 min max per DVD and is as good as analog TV gets, and 8.0 is plain overkill.

The only way to shrink mpg2 down is to re-encode it. And re-encoding from 6.0 Mbs 720X480 to 2.3 Mbs at 352X480 will take a lot of PC time and produce a video that isn't even close to the quality of VHS EP....the motion aspects would be horrible, even worse that they are with any DVD recorder in 4 hour mode; mpg1 352X240 at 2.0 Mbs CBR would be better, but still poor compared to a good VHS EP recording.

If you are happy with video from a DVD recorder in 4 hour mode, more power to you. I can't stand to watch 5 minutes of that crap.

[AlanHK]

Encoding as mentioned by others applies to DV AVI or lesser compressed video. Mpg2 is already encoded and highly compressed..

You can, and often do, encode to MPEG2 using an MPEG2 source, if you want to filter, resize, or just get higher compression, which I think is the case here. Call it "re-encoding" if it makes you feel better.

[cthiesen]

Back to original question

Why does this have to be all on a 25 cent single layer DVD?

Why a single layer and not double layer?

I don't know what options I have apparently. Can I burn double layer DVDs?

Does this absolutely need to play on an average DVD player?

It needs to play on my DVD player which is pretty average.

thanks,
- charles[/quote]

[cthiesen]

You can, and often do, encode to MPEG2 using an MPEG2 source, if you want to filter, resize, or just get higher compression, which I think is the case here. Call it "re-encoding" if it makes you feel better.

This is apparently what I want to do. Apparently my hardware can encode mpeg2 at 4.0 MBps and I need to get higher compression to fit more on a disk. But how do I do this? What software will do it?

thanks,
- charles

[Baldrick]

You can, and often do, encode to MPEG2 using an MPEG2 source, if you want to filter, resize, or just get higher compression, which I think is the case here. Call it "re-encoding" if it makes you feel better.

This is apparently what I want to do. Apparently my hardware can encode mpeg2 at 4.0 MBps and I need to get higher compression to fit more on a disk. But how do I do this? What software will do it?

thanks,
- charles

Reconvert with a mpeg2 encoder...like HC, Tmpgenc Xpress.

[edDV]

Back to original question

Why does this have to be all on a 25 cent single layer DVD?

Why a single layer and not double layer?

I don't know what options I have apparently. Can I burn double layer DVDs?

Does this absolutely need to play on an average DVD player?

It needs to play on my DVD player which is pretty average.

thanks,
- charles

[/quote]

Single layer MPeg2 will have serious artifacts at 4hr. Check your burner specs for dual layer support. Dual Layer DVD-9 disks have ~8GB capacity allowing about 4400Kb/s ave over four hours (see https://www.videohelp.com/calc )



If your player supports Divx/Xvid, you could fit 4hrs to a single layer but the quality won't be great.

[lordsmurf]

Single layer MPeg2 will have serious artifacts at 4hr

Only if you squeeze it to 720x480.
A 352x480 DVD will be fine, as good as 720x480 at 2 hours.

[edDV]

Single layer MPeg2 will have serious artifacts at 4hr

Only if you squeeze it to 720x480.
A 352x480 DVD will be fine, as good as 720x480 at 2 hours.

That is true.

[cthiesen]

Just lower the MPEG bitrate till it fits.

So much information, my brain is about to explode, but I'm seriously grateful.

I'm starting to get the idea that the best way to squeeze more than two hours of video on a disk given my needs is to adjust the bitrate at which it's encoded (or however you say it.) Apparently my ATI card doesn't give me that choice, the lowest option being 4 MBps.

Do I need a different card? If so, any suggestions? I looked through the list of capture cards here, but can't figure out how to get that information.

thanks everyone,
- charles

[cthiesen]

Apparently my ATI card doesn't give me that choice, the lowest option being 4 MBps.

Wait! I just checked. The specs for my card on the ATI site include this:
Hardware MPEG compression engine -
MPEG-2 720x480 compression
CBR and VBR from 1 to 15 Mbps

Do these numbers mean that the card can capture at between 1 and 15 Mbps?

Does that mean, I just need software that will allow me to make the card do that?

Thanks,
- charles

[edDV]

You can adjust size and bitrate in your AIW MPeg settings

352x480 @ 2Mb/s (2000Kb/s) to single layer 4.3GB DVD or 720x480 @4Mb/s to a dual layer 8GB DVD.

[cthiesen]

You can adjust size and bitrate in your AIW MPeg settings

352x480 @ 2Mb/s (2000Kb/s) to single layer 4.3GB DVD or 720x480 @4Mb/s to a dual layer 8GB DVD.

Thanks, but I don't understand what that means. What are AIW MPeg settings and how do I adjust them?

[edDV]

You can adjust size and bitrate in your AIW MPeg settings

352x480 @ 2Mb/s (2000Kb/s) to single layer 4.3GB DVD or 720x480 @4Mb/s to a dual layer 8GB DVD.

Thanks, but I don't understand what that means. What are AIW MPeg settings and how do I adjust them?

I'm away from my PC now and on a Mac so can't explain the MMC menus from here. The preferences are in your ATI MMC program.

[edDV]

I found this picture of the MMC menus on Lordsmurf's site www.DigitalFAQ.com
He has much info there on AIW cards.

You will find MPeg2 settings under "Custom"

[cthiesen]

I found this picture of the MMC menus on Lordsmurf's site www.DigitalFAQ.com
He has much info there on AIW cards.

I've been there. (I am trying to do my homework.) But I can't figure out how to get to any controls for my card. Maybe because it's Vista (ptui!), but I cannot get any menus that have anything to do with the card. I know it's there because Roxio captures stuff with it. I'm going nuts here. Computers were hard before Vista, but never this hard.

Thanks for working so hard to help me. I'm embarrassed that I can't figure this out myself. I am trying though.

- charles

[redwudz]

If you use edDV's numbers of "352x480 @ 2Mb/s (2000Kb/s) to single layer 4.3GB DVD", that would give you about 4 1/2 hours of video on a DVD. I would adjust the bitrate up a little to 2300kb/s if you have just four hours. It depends on how much adjustment the AIW allows you.

You want your audio to be 48Khz, 16bit, 224khz most times for a DVD. Sometimes you can squeeze the audio down a bit and gain a little more bitrate for the video.

I would try a 1/2 D1 (352X480) capture at 2000Kb/s (2Mb/s) and see how it looks compared to a full DI (720X480) at that same bitrate. My guess is at that low bitrate 1/2 D1 will look a lot better.

[edDV]

I found this picture of the MMC menus on Lordsmurf's site www.DigitalFAQ.com
He has much info there on AIW cards.

I've been there. (I am trying to do my homework.) But I can't figure out how to get to any controls for my card. Maybe because it's Vista (ptui!), but I cannot get any menus that have anything to do with the card. I know it's there because Roxio captures stuff with it. I'm going nuts here. Computers were hard before Vista, but never this hard.

Thanks for working so hard to help me. I'm embarrassed that I can't figure this out myself. I am trying though.

- charles

Then you aren't using the ATI AIW MMC software. That is needed to get hardware compression from the AIW cards.

If you are using Roxio, then the settings are in the Roxio software. Extreme realtime software only compression requires a very fast computer and even then quality will suffer without using the hardware on the ATI card. I suggest you get ATI MMC software installed or buy a new card like a Hauppauge PVR-series or the ATI 650 capture card. The Hauppauge PVR cards will have better support.

[cthiesen]

Then you aren't using the ATI AIW MMC software. That is needed to get hardware compression from the AIW cards.

If you are using Roxio, then the settings are in the Roxio software. Extreme realtime software only compression requires a very fast computer and even then quality will suffer without using the hardware on the ATI card. I suggest you get ATI MMC software installed or buy a new card like a Hauppauge PVR-series or the ATI 650 capture card. The Hauppauge PVR cards will have better support.

What a frustrating day! I downloaded the ATI software but it WILL NOT INSTALL. It looks like it's installing, but there's nothing there when it's done. I'll contact ATI when I'm done my taxes--the only thing more frustrating than dealing with this video stuff, in spite of all the generous help I'm getting here.

Sigh.

The Roxio settings only offer HQ, SP, and LP (8, 6, and 4 MBps I gather.) The card IS an ATI 650, but if I can't install the software, I can't set the bitrate.

Ah well, thanks to all who've offered their help. I'll post an update if I resolve anything.

- charles

[poisondeathray]

I think ATI AIW software is quite dated and since you have Vista, you might have to be logged in as administrator, and disable driver signing. Even then I bet you will have compatibility issues with Vista.