fitting four hours on 4.7 GB DVD

[theewizard]

i did with convertxtodvd with the 'tinman' scifi mini-series specail 4hrs 15min no comerrcials, but i'm going to re-do it on DL for better quality

it turned out pretty good, but there are spots in the movie where you can see the difference between the source capture and the DVD version,

[edDV]

Then you aren't using the ATI AIW MMC software. That is needed to get hardware compression from the AIW cards.

If you are using Roxio, then the settings are in the Roxio software. Extreme realtime software only compression requires a very fast computer and even then quality will suffer without using the hardware on the ATI card. I suggest you get ATI MMC software installed or buy a new card like a Hauppauge PVR-series or the ATI 650 capture card. The Hauppauge PVR cards will have better support.

What a frustrating day! I downloaded the ATI software but it WILL NOT INSTALL. It looks like it's installing, but there's nothing there when it's done. I'll contact ATI when I'm done my taxes--the only thing more frustrating than dealing with this video stuff, in spite of all the generous help I'm getting here.

Sigh.

The Roxio settings only offer HQ, SP, and LP (8, 6, and 4 MBps I gather.) The card IS an ATI 650, but if I can't install the software, I can't set the bitrate.

Ah well, thanks to all who've offered their help. I'll post an update if I resolve anything.

- charles

If the card is a 650 and you have Vista Premium or Ultimate, you are probably better off using Windows Media Center. I've had good luck with the 550/650 cards with the latest ATI drivers. Hardware compression is working with little CPU overhead. The TV Wonder 550/650 cards are a different animal than the All-In-Wonder cards which don't work with MCE and rely on ATI MMC software for hardware acceleration.

[cthiesen]

If the card is a 650 and you have Vista Premium or Ultimate, you are probably better off using Windows Media Center. I've had good luck with the 550/650 cards with the latest ATI drivers. Hardware compression is working with little CPU overhead. The TV Wonder 550/650 cards are a different animal than the All-In-Wonder cards which don't work with MCE and rely on ATI MMC software for hardware acceleration.

Can Windows Media Center save as mpeg? And can I somehow get it to capture at lower than 4MBps?

BTW, it turns out that the ATI Media Center software isn't supported for Vista yet. It was scheduled for late 2007, but I guess they missed that deadline.

thanks for your continuing help,
- charles

[SmokieStover]

Then you aren't using the ATI AIW MMC software. That is needed to get hardware compression from the AIW cards.

If you are using Roxio, then the settings are in the Roxio software. Extreme realtime software only compression requires a very fast computer and even then quality will suffer without using the hardware on the ATI card. I suggest you get ATI MMC software installed or buy a new card like a Hauppauge PVR-series or the ATI 650 capture card. The Hauppauge PVR cards will have better support.

What a frustrating day! I downloaded the ATI software but it WILL NOT INSTALL. It looks like it's installing, but there's nothing there when it's done. I'll contact ATI when I'm done my taxes--the only thing more frustrating than dealing with this video stuff, in spite of all the generous help I'm getting here.

Sigh.

The Roxio settings only offer HQ, SP, and LP (8, 6, and 4 MBps I gather.) The card IS an ATI 650, but if I can't install the software, I can't set the bitrate.

Ah well, thanks to all who've offered their help. I'll post an update if I resolve anything.

- charles

You will have a very tough time getting the ATI 650 to work with any ATI software....for recording, you need to use the software that came with the card. Nothing will work better for that purpose. That card will not record or capture at half D1 (video resolution of 352 X 480) no matter what software you use.

GB-PVR (free) will work with that card, and it may even allow you to set the resolution at 352 X 480, but it will not actually record that way. You may indeed be able to change the bit-rate, but you are stuck with the 720X480 resolution.

I have two ATI Wonder Elite cards (550 pro Vs 650 pro), which are analog only. Your 650 will also do HD off antenna, but that's even a bigger problem if archiving to DVD. I suspect your 650 records analog like this:

1) HQ (Best): Near constant Bitrate of 8.0 Kbs @ 720 X 480; overkill unless doing a quick job from Mini DV camcorder.

2) SP (Better): Near constant Bit-rate of 6.0 Kbs @ 720 X 480; so close to live TV that you would not want anything better. Very good with motion, even in dark scenes.......never see part of one's face turn before the other parts, which I often do see with a Hauppauge PVR 250 when in their SP mode which is a variable bitrate of 6.4 Kps.

3) LP (Good): Near constant Bitrate of 4.0 Kbs @ 720 X 480; a bit fuzzy except on the best channels, still handles motion well. I rate it better in some ways than VHS SP, but not much.

The best thing you could do is to make brief recordings using each of your quality settings, open them with G-Spot and post the statistics here. Otherwise, all you will get is generalities. And so I'll give you some:

Use the SP setting for any TV with commercials running 2 hours or less.....it will all fit on one DVD after editing out the commercials.

Use the LP setting for any TV with commercials running between 2 hours and 2 Hours and 45 minutes......it will all fit on one DVD after editing out the commercials.

For any TV with commercials running up to 4 hours in length, use the SP.........it will fit to Two DVDs after editing out the commercials.

The only other option is to reencode your recording. If you choose this avenue, I would record at SP (6.0 Kbs @ 720 X 480). I have Tmpgenc 2.5 and Tmpgenc Express 3.0; for this purpose I prefer the later encoder.

As an example, reencoding such a recording from an ATI 550, down to 352 X 480 at a Variable Bitrate, average = 3.0 Kbs, peak = 4.0Kbs, produces a video very close to the original, and will allow over 3 hours on one DVD if I also reencode the audio from 384Kbs to 256Kbs. BUT MAN, OH MAN, IT DOES TAKE TIME: almost 2 minutes for ever minute of video on this econobox!

Some say they can reencode to 4 hours per DVD and get good video. I can't.

The Hauppauge PVR allows custom recording profiles that could give you 3 or 4 hours of video at a resoultion of 352 X 480, but the motion aspects are horrible.

Perhaps there are stand along DVD recorders that can record good video 352 X 480 at 4 hours per single layer DVD, but no TV card I ever heard of can even come close to that.

[cthiesen]

You will have a very tough time getting the ATI 650 to work with any ATI software....for recording, you need to use the software that came with the card. Nothing will work better for that purpose. That card will not record or capture at half D1 (video resolution of 352 X 480) no matter what software you use.

The software that came with the computer which came with the card is Roxio. It offers very little control--just three bitrates, for example.

GB-PVR (free) will work with that card, and it may even allow you to set the resolution at 352 X 480, but it will not actually record that way. You may indeed be able to change the bit-rate, but you are stuck with the 720X480 resolution.

Unfortunately it doesn't detect the drivers for the card, which I thought I installed yesterday.

Thanks for the incredibly thoughtful and detailed information. In the light of all this, I'm adjusting my requirements. I'll be fine recording everything I can to fit two hours on a DVD. I'd rather not split longer movies into two part (unless they're over three hours) but I stil haven't figured out how I'll compress them. I'll try the many different suggestion I've gotten on this thread, I guess, until I find one that works well enough. I may even wind up buying a new card.

I would have just bought a new standalone DVR/DVD burner, but I can't evevn find any. Panasonic seems to have stopped making them. I guess everyone's just using DVRs and not burning.

thanks again.
- charles