HDTV Purchase Questions

[churchie04]

Hey everyone,

I'm gonna purchase an HDTV soon and was wanting to get peoples opinions on what to get.

My viewing distance is 8 feet and my price range is not too high. I am wondering if I'd be better off with a 32" 720P or a 37" 1080P (I know those are rare but they exist). It will mostly be used for my XBOX 360 (with HDMI) and possibly an HD-DVD addon in the future. I doubt I'll get HD Cable soon and have a large library of standard Def DVD's as well as standard Def digital content that will be played through the 360.

Are there any brands that are known to give particularly good Standard Def images? I know they all will have to upscale, but it's hard to read through all the marketing BS and find out which one has a good scaler.

I saw an earlier thread about 32 inch -- do I really need 1080p ?, but the conversation quickly turned to other things...

Also, any experiences with either Olevia or Westinghouse? They seem to be the budget brands right now, just wondering if anyone knows whose panels they use.

Thanks.

[jagabo]

At 8 feet away from a 32" or 37" HDTV you will be hard pressed to see any difference between 720p and 1080i/p. But the bigger screen is proably more suitable for that distance. And if you ever sit closer to the TV (4 ft?) the 1080p will look better (again with 1080i/p content).

THX would recommend a 80" 1080p display (and content) for your 8 foot viewing distance.

http://www.thx.com/home/setup/display.html

SMPTE would recommend about 20 percent less.

Obviously, SD will look really poor at those sizes.

It's hard to find reliable SD performance ratings for HDTVs. I seem to recall reading that some Sony models have superior upscaling for SD content. But this is sure to vary by model and the good ones are probably the expensive ones.

[zoobie]

I read that HD really starts to kick in at 42".
Nobody's buying the large screens, though, so the industry seems to have gone the other direction with pushing 19" sales.
The consumer is probably just confused and waiting to see what standards will surface before shelling out big $$$$.
Just my take on it...

[edDV]

For primary SD viewing I'd encourage you to go with a premium brand (e.g. Sony, Samsung, maybe Sharp) in a smaller size if budget is the issue. You will find the superior image processing in these units makes a huge difference for SD picture quality. I'm looking at a 46" Samsung LCD-TV at the moment with CNBC moving stock quotes and the decoding is near perfect and clear. This is rare for 480i on a large progressive screen. You will be disappointed with Olevia. Vizio and Westinghouse use generic processing chips but are a step up from Olevia.

I'd disagree large screens aren't selling. I was in line at Fry's yesterday morning and about every third person in a long line was buying a 40-46" LCD-TV mostly Samsungs and 32" Envision (on-sale). Lots of big screen TV business at Sam's Club as well.

[churchie04]

Thanks for the input so far.

I am going to Best Buy this weekend to look at some models, probably won't buy there, just want to actually get my eyes on them.

Is there an effective way to try and see the difference between 720p and 1080p while there? I can spot SD sources in those stores, but sometimes it's hard to tell if the 1080P models are upconverting a 720P source or if the 720P models are downcoverting a 1080 source.

I would assume they are pumping 1080 footage through the models...but I don't really trust what sales guys tell me when it comes to technical specs...

Any input would be helpful as I've never actually shopped in store for a TV before.

[edDV]

Thanks for the input so far.

I am going to Best Buy this weekend to look at some models, probably won't buy there, just want to actually get my eyes on them.

Is there an effective way to try and see the difference between 720p and 1080p while there? I can spot SD sources in those stores, but sometimes it's hard to tell if the 1080P models are upconverting a 720P source or if the 720P models are downcoverting a 1080 source.

I would assume they are pumping 1080 footage through the models...but I don't really trust what sales guys tell me when it comes to technical specs...

Any input would be helpful as I've never actually shopped in store for a TV before.

Try to find a high end Home Theater store and let their experienced sales people educate you. Tell them you are just gaining info for a home theater. Later they often will match Best Buy prices for their low end models. Ask them for a demo of 720p vs. 1080i/1080p. Also ask to see 480i off cable and sat. Ask about audio too. They make their big money from audio and furniture. It costs nothing to get a good demo.

[DarrellS]

I don't hear anyone on this site talking about rear projection TVs. You seem to get a lot more TV for the price.

I'm thinking about getting the SONY KDF37H1000 37" BRAVIA 3LCD Rear Projection HD for $999 at Fry's. I'd rather get the SONY KDF46E3000 with 1080p for $1,199 but I can't really even afford to spend $999 on a new TV. My old 27" Sony works fine but... I thought about a 32" but it's no bigger than my 27" really. A little wider.

Maybe by 2009 the price will have fallen where the average joe can afford to buy a new TV. I guess a guy on SSA Disability can't really be called an average joe. Sure do miss those plumber wages.

[jman98]

churchie04 - I usually don't have a problem with jagabo, but well, that post is just useless. 80" ?!? Yeah, that's helpful - not.

The truth is that you can get excellent results out of all your video, including standard definition, if you are willing to follow these 2 rules.

1) ALL and I mean ALL of your video connections MUST be high quality. High quality connections include:
DVI
HDMI
component

High quality connections do NOT include:
S-video
composite
old style coax like used in the USA for cable TV

2) Be willing to use your remote and switch between 4:3 and 16:9. Do NOT watch 4:3 sources (like standard def TV) in 16:9! Only watch true widescreen sources (high def TV and widescreen DVD) in 16:9.

I am getting excellent results out of all my standard def sources on my HDTV. I have high quality connections. I don't watch everything in 16:9.
I only watch widescreen video in 16:9. Inevitably, people who say that "standard def TV sucks on my HDTV" are watching it in 16:9 and/or using low quality connections. I have a 42" 1080p HDTV from Samsung and I sit 10 feet from it. By the way, viewing distance does play a role, but at 8 feet I'd guess that either would be OK. Yes, Samsung does make excellent HDTVs as edDV suggests.

[edDV]

churchie04 - I usually don't have a problem with jagabo, but well, that post is just useless. 80" ?!? Yeah, that's helpful - not.

The truth is that you can get excellent results out of all your video, including standard definition, if you are willing to follow these 2 rules.

1) ALL and I mean ALL of your video connections MUST be high quality. High quality connections include:
DVI
HDMI
component

High quality connections do NOT include:
S-video
composite
old style coax like used in the USA for cable TV

2) Be willing to use your remote and switch between 4:3 and 16:9. Do NOT watch 4:3 sources (like standard def TV) in 16:9! Only watch true widescreen sources (high def TV and widescreen DVD) in 16:9.

I am getting excellent results out of all my standard def sources on my HDTV. I have high quality connections. I don't watch everything in 16:9.
I only watch widescreen video in 16:9. Inevitably, people who say that "standard def TV sucks on my HDTV" are watching it in 16:9 and/or using low quality connections. I have a 42" 1080p HDTV from Samsung and I sit 10 feet from it. By the way, viewing distance does play a role, but at 8 feet I'd guess that either would be OK. Yes, Samsung does make excellent HDTVs as edDV suggests.

All that applies to playing movie DVD and watching HD channels (including HD channels with TV station SD upscaling) but the TV's internal processing (IVTC, deinterlace and upscaling) is equally important for display of 480i native broadcasts. The processing chipsets from the quality TV brands do make a difference.

[jagabo]

FWIW: The December 2007 issue of Consumer Reports gives SD quality ratings for many LCD, plasma, and rear projection HDTVs.

[Sooner02]

1) ALL and I mean ALL of your video connections MUST be high quality. High quality connections include:
DVI
HDMI
component

High quality connections do NOT include:
S-video
composite
old style coax like used in the USA for cable TV

2) Be willing to use your remote and switch between 4:3 and 16:9. Do NOT watch 4:3 sources (like standard def TV) in 16:9! Only watch true widescreen sources (high def TV and widescreen DVD) in 16:9.

I am getting excellent results out of all my standard def sources on my HDTV. I have high quality connections. I don't watch everything in 16:9.
I only watch widescreen video in 16:9. Inevitably, people who say that "standard def TV sucks on my HDTV" are watching it in 16:9 and/or using low quality connections. I have a 42" 1080p HDTV from Samsung and I sit 10 feet from it. By the way, viewing distance does play a role, but at 8 feet I'd guess that either would be OK. Yes, Samsung does make excellent HDTVs as edDV suggests.

Would it be worth it to buy component cables for regular SD cable signal? I already use HDMI for HD sources, but still have analog SD cable and wonder if component would make any difference.

[edDV]

1) ALL and I mean ALL of your video connections MUST be high quality. High quality connections include:
DVI
HDMI
component

High quality connections do NOT include:
S-video
composite
old style coax like used in the USA for cable TV

2) Be willing to use your remote and switch between 4:3 and 16:9. Do NOT watch 4:3 sources (like standard def TV) in 16:9! Only watch true widescreen sources (high def TV and widescreen DVD) in 16:9.

I am getting excellent results out of all my standard def sources on my HDTV. I have high quality connections. I don't watch everything in 16:9.
I only watch widescreen video in 16:9. Inevitably, people who say that "standard def TV sucks on my HDTV" are watching it in 16:9 and/or using low quality connections. I have a 42" 1080p HDTV from Samsung and I sit 10 feet from it. By the way, viewing distance does play a role, but at 8 feet I'd guess that either would be OK. Yes, Samsung does make excellent HDTVs as edDV suggests.

Would it be worth it to buy component cables for regular SD cable signal? I already use HDMI for HD sources, but still have analog SD cable and wonder if component would make any difference.

You mean for SD cable boxes and DVD players? The answer is yes. For SD you can use those $9.50 Philips analog component cables found at Walmart.

[victoriabears]

I bought the sony 46" kdlv3000 and watch mainly SD material, so it was important that the TV I bought was most sympathetic to this.
I live in Canada now but have a large collection of VHS from the UK I am converting to dvd in Pal.
So using the Oppo 981 HD DVD player which upconverts (Using HDMI) and SD digital cable from shaw (Using s video and RCA) I can tell you that for the most part this TV really does the job.
Historically I am not a Sony fan but this time the've done it for me, even morecambe and wise DIVX which is material from 1974! looks great.
The toshiba's are supposed to have a colour problem and sharp a banding problem, the Samsung are very good but support is evidently poor.

[Sooner02]

You mean for SD cable boxes and DVD players? The answer is yes. For SD you can use those $9.50 Philips analog component cables found at Walmart.

So I guess it won't make a difference if I spent $30+ for the expensive ones versus the walmart ones, but it does make a difference to switch to component versus s-video from an analog&digital cable box?

[victoriabears]

Yes if you can use component or HDMI use them, my cable box has neither and I am still getting a good picture, fiddle with the settings as wll to improve on things.

[Sooner02]

Actually my cable box doesn't have either, but I run the signal (via composite) to a vcr/dvd recorder which has a component output to the hdtv. Right now I am using the s-video output on the recorder, but was curious if component would be better.

[DarrellS]

BOOMER SOONER

[victoriabears]

and the result of your experiment?

[edDV]

Actually my cable box doesn't have either, but I run the signal (via composite) to a vcr/dvd recorder which has a component output to the hdtv. Right now I am using the s-video output on the recorder, but was curious if component would be better.

Yes, for SD analog connections

S-Video is superior to composite NTSC since it keeps luminance Y and chroma separate minimizing dot crawl and moire' patterns.It also eliminates the destructive Y/C separation filters.

Analog component is superior to S-Video because component color PbPr components are carried at full bandwidth. NTSC encoding is avoided completely.

High definition YPbPr uses higher frequencies so should use the $20 double shielded Philips or RCA cable sold at Walmart. You won't gain much with more expensive cables unless cable lengths are long.

[jagabo]

Actually my cable box doesn't have either, but I run the signal (via composite) to a vcr/dvd recorder which has a component output to the hdtv. Right now I am using the s-video output on the recorder, but was curious if component would be better.

Yes, for SD analog connections

Since the cable box to recorder cable is composite anything from the cable box won't look any better via component from the recorder to the TV. Commercial DVDs will look better though.

[churchie04]

Well, I went ahead and purchased the Samsung LNT3253H model. It's a 32in 720P display. So far the SD quality on it is very good! And it has two separate RF in so I am able to connect cable and I picked up an HDTV Over the Air antenna and the quality is superb. Thanks for the input everyone.

[jagabo]

So, what do you think of the size? One of the biggest complaints of HDTV buyers is "I should have got a bigger one." Or "I wish I could have afforded a bigger one."

How close do you need to be before you start seeing the LCD grid (ie, the minimum viewing distance for HD material)? About 4 feet?

[churchie04]

For the size of my apartment, 37inch would have been too daunting of a size, almost laughable compared to the size of the room. I'd say you have to be about 3 feet away and really concentrate on looking for the lines to see them, but at 8 feet it is great!

[samijubal]

I don't hear anyone on this site talking about rear projection TVs. You seem to get a lot more TV for the price.

I'm thinking about getting the SONY KDF37H1000 37" BRAVIA 3LCD Rear Projection HD for $999 at Fry's. I'd rather get the SONY KDF46E3000 with 1080p for $1,199 but I can't really even afford to spend $999 on a new TV. My old 27" Sony works fine but... I thought about a 32" but it's no bigger than my 27" really. A little wider.

Maybe by 2009 the price will have fallen where the average joe can afford to buy a new TV. I guess a guy on SSA Disability can't really be called an average joe. Sure do miss those plumber wages.

They also have far higher breakdowns. According to CR, name brand plat panel TVs, plasma and LCD both, have about 3% breakdowns in the first 3 years, rear projection TVs have 18% in the first 3 years. You may pay more up front for a flat panel, but you'll save a lot in the long run. The bulbs alone for RPTVs average around $200.