Aspect ratio problem when capturing

[stantheman1976]

Let's see if I can word this right. Last week I filmed an event on a Panasonic PV-GS400 in Cinema mode. This week I filmed another event on teh same camera with the same settings. Cinema mode on this camera adds a black bar at the top and bottom of the screen to simulate letterbox. The first video I captured, encoded and authored and it looks perfectly normal. Here's a screenshot:

http://www.mbbchurch.com/mbbcmedia/cinema2.JPG

The one from this week whenever I capture plays normally on the camera and looks normal while capturing. When I view the finished capture the black area is twice what it should be and the vide looks squished. Here's a screen:

http://www.mbbchurch.com/mbbcmedia/cinema1.JPG

So can anyone give me a hand on what's going wrong here? I've tried capturing with a different camera and used Ulead Video Studio 9 and WinDV to capture with the same results. I've viewed the videos in Power DVD and Media Player and it's the same. I also encoded a short clip with TMPGEnc, which will by my encoder used, and the same reults happen. In case you're wondering I did author that clip to a DVD+RW and tried it on a TV. Same reults. I also tried another firewire cable and different firewire port on my PC just to see what happened. No changes.

Please help me guys. I don't understand how it's looking normal on the camera viewfinder and computer screen while it captures and then looks wrong when it's played on the PC. This is an event I'm being paid to make DVD's of and I want to get it right.

[jagabo]

It sounds like your material is 4:3. Try converting to 4:3 MPEG Burn as 4:3 DVD and it will work fine.

Open your captured AVI file with a program like VirtualDub which doesn't correct aspect ratio for display. If the frame has black bars at the top and bottom you have 4:3 video. If not, and everyone looks tall and skinny, you have anamorphic 16:9. In that case just tell your MPEG encoder that your source is 16:9 and burn as 16:9 DVD.

[stantheman1976]

Yea, I do understand that part. I captured as normal 4:3 and converted as the same. I haven't changed anything. That's why I'm boggled that the video looks different on playback than it does while capturing and on the camera viewfinder. That should not happen.

Now something goofy, I just tried another test encode to MPEG-2 and it looks fine. I don't know what the hell is going on here.

[JohnnyMalaria]

It's sounds as if the letterboxed 4:3 DV is being (incorrectly) tagged as 16:9.

Try opening the AVI file in our Enosoft DV Processor - it will tell you if the 16:9 flag is set or not....(later this week I will be releasing the next beta version that will let you change the flag).

[stantheman1976]

I get this error message during install:

"SSE2 instructions are not supprted on this system."

[stantheman1976]

Tried another test encode and got the squished look again.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Hmm. Sorry - the software requires a processor with SSE2.

Can you post a very short example somewhere? e.g., a 0.5 second clip.

I'll take a look at it.

[stantheman1976]

Sorry to sound dumb, but I don't know what SSE2 is. I'm uploading a couple test clips right now. I'll post the links when they are done.

[stantheman1976]

Also, seems when I go through the project wizard in TMPGEnc it works fine and looks normal. When I set everything manually it messes up. So is there some setting I'm missing maybe? If I can get the end result to look normal then I really don't care how it looks during playback and editing.

[JohnnyMalaria]

You can read all about SSE2 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE2

(if you wish!)

Basically, it's a feature of many CPUs on PCs that allows calculations to be done faster than on CPUs without the feature. Intel and AMD support it. Most CPUs since 2000 or so have it. Your profile shows an AMD XP - it doesn't have SSE2.

[stantheman1976]

I do have an AMD processor. My computer is about 3 1/2 years old.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Is it the AMD XP 2400 listed in your computer profile?

It doesn't have SSE2.

[stantheman1976]

10 second clip in AVI adn MPEG-2.

http://www.mbbchurch.com/mbbcmedia/malariatest.avi

http://www.mbbchurch.com/mbbcmedia/malariatest.mpg

[JohnnyMalaria]

10 second clip in AVI adn MPEG-2.

Can you post a short one (max 1 second?) I really only need one frame to find out how the flags are set but it must be as captured.

I have a s-l-o-w connection - it will take more than an hour for the AVI (and my wife will get upset since she's working and using the same line!)

[stantheman1976]

Click the same link again. I overworte it with a .5 second clip.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Thanks.

It is tagged as 4:3.

However, the amount of letterboxing is not standard for 16:9 letterboxing.

The black bands are each 98 pixels tall. For 16:9 letterboxing, they should be 60 pixels tall. So, your camcorder is letterboxing the equivalent of 2.90:1 aspect ratio.

Rather strange. Plus the video looks squished.

I'll have a dig around for info on the Panasonic PV-GS400...

[stantheman1976]

So do you know if there is anything specific I should check for in TMPGEnc when encoding? I make sure to have the source and destinations set as 4:3.

[JohnnyMalaria]

So do you know if there is anything specific I should check for in TMPGEnc when encoding? I make sure to have the source and destinations set as 4:3.

I don't know.

What's strange is the way in which the image is both letterboxed and squished. I've located a copy of the manual and, according to it, your camcorder supports the following modes:

WIDE
PRO-CINEMA

According to the manual, these are 16:9 modes. The manual also claims that a widescreen TV will automatically sense it, yet the DV aspect ratio flag is set to 4:3.

Does this happen with both the Wide and Pro-Cinema modes?

[JohnnyMalaria]

I've been drilling deep into your AVI clip and something's up.

Is it exactly as captured or did you render a small portion to create the short clip?

The DV data contain no timecode, recording date etc. Timecode is mandatory for DV devices - hence my question. Most rendering software will destroy it and create DV data with it missing.

[stantheman1976]

So do you know if there is anything specific I should check for in TMPGEnc when encoding? I make sure to have the source and destinations set as 4:3.

I don't know.

What's strange is the way in which the image is both letterboxed and squished. I've located a copy of the manual and, according to it, your camcorder supports the following modes:

WIDE
PRO-CINEMA

According to the manual, these are 16:9 modes. The manual also claims that a widescreen TV will automatically sense it, yet the DV aspect ratio flag is set to 4:3.

Does this happen with both the Wide and Pro-Cinema modes?

I used the "Cinema" mode under the main menu. I've used it a bunch of other times and never had this happen.

[stantheman1976]

I've been drilling deep into your AVI clip and something's up.

Is it exactly as captured or did you render a small portion to create the short clip?

The DV data contain no timecode, recording date etc. Timecode is mandatory for DV devices - hence my question. Most rendering software will destroy it and create DV data with it missing.

I cut a piece out with Ulead and encoded that,

[JohnnyMalaria]

OK. Can you capture a really short piece and post it as-is?

[stantheman1976]

http://www.mbbchurch.com/mbbcmedia/test.avi

[jagabo]

As I guessed earlier, your source is 4:3 DV AVI video with black bars covering the top and bottom of the frame. Treat it as 4:3 video throughout your processing and it will display properly on TV.

[stantheman1976]

That's the point I'm trying to get across. I AM treating it as 4:3 during capture, edit and encoding. I never put 16:9 anywhere into the mix. Even though it's 4:3 the original file I transferred is displaying incorrectly and when I edit and output the AVI to encode it does not encode with the correct display. A test encode done from the original transfer works like it should, but I would like to be abl to edit the file. It's a beauty pageant as you guessd and I put scrolling text at the bottom with teh contestants' names. I can encode the files directly without that and trim the MPEG-2 files with MPEG VCR, but that's a last resort. Am I making sense?

[stantheman1976]

I THINK I have it settled. In Ulead when you edit and output the file you choose what template to save it as. I normally choose DV (4:3) because I never work with true 16:9. Instead of doing that Ulead also has the setting "Same as project settings". I used that on a small clip and it works. So I think even though the DV transfers from the camera look strange they will encode and play normally if the headers or whatever of the original file are kept. Am I wording that last part right?

[jagabo]

That's odd. If you're working with a 4:3 project and a 4:3 sources, forcing 4:3 output should generate the same thing as using the project settings. Maybe it's a bug in Ulead VideoStudio. I haven't used the program since version 6 or 7.

[stantheman1976]

I tried footage captured with Ulead and WinDV with 2 different firewire cables, 2 firewire ports, and 2 cameras. Same thing happened on all. I suppose it's just something with the Panasonic camera.

[stantheman1976]

I've worked with the same camera for over a year. I don't always use Cinema mode, but have done so numerous times in the past. That's what made his so damn frustrating. It should have been an opena nd shut case of transfer, edit, and author.

[JohnnyMalaria]

I'll dig in to the new clip this evening....