Looking For A New Alternative To Convert AVI To DVD

[T0t]

Hi all, first and foremost great forum. Very informative. Well up to now I've been using ConvertXtoDVD to convert my AVI files into DVD format. But I've noticed that on all of my DVD conversions/burns there is always some sort of pixelation/artifacting, mostly in the particularly dark scenes. Scenes that show the night sky, dark walls, heavy shadows, solid colored walls, etc. I know that once I convert an AVI file into DVD format the quality will be worse than that of the original AVI file, but the artifacting/pixelation that occurs is somewhat unbearable and is very noticeable. I make sure to always use a high quality AVI video source, I'll get my hands on "dvd-rips" for example, and the quality will be severely worsened once burnt to DVD. Particulary the dark scenes, as explained above. There'll be little multi-colored blocks, pixelation, artifacting, etc.

So I'm now looking for an alternative. I'm a newby and I've only tried a handful of programs (ConvertXtoDVD and WinAVI to be precise) and I'm looking for a new alternative. It doesn't have to be an "all-in-one" solution like ConvertXtoDVD and WinAVI are. I don't mind using multiple programs in order to get the best quality possible. But keep in mind I am a newby. Thanks for any and all help, I appreciate it.

Oh and I'm using high quality DVD+R Verbatim disks. I've tried all kinds of different media, it still happens.

[Baldrick]

https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=710&howtoselect=4;10#710 you can replace tmpgenc with other standalone mpeg encoders like mainconcept mpeg encoder, quenc, etc.

but you wont notice that much difference....better is to just backup your dvds from the original dvds....

[T0t]

https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=710&howtoselect=4;10#710 you can replace tmpgenc with other standalone mpeg encoders like mainconcept mpeg encoder, quenc, etc.

but you wont notice that much difference....better is to just backup your dvds from the original dvds....

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Thanks for linking me to the guide as well, any suggestions on what "encoder" I should use? Which is the best one around? Please remember I'm a newby so I may not know all the stuff you guys know.

I'm converting AVI files acquired from the internet, so I don't have solid copies. I just want the best quality possible, so I appreciate you taking the time to reply. Hopefully I can get some second opinions on the matter hehe.

[guns1inger]

Like it or not, there is nothing you can do if you don't go an buy the original DVDs, or if originals do not exist. The flaws you are seeing exist in the original avi files. They look worse after conversion because you have resized the file up to DVD resolution, and the gamma of your TV is brighter than your monitor. All of this makes the problems that already existed appear to be much worse.

ConvertXtoDVD does accept avisynth scripts, so you could try using FitCD to create basic script to do the resizing using Lancsoz (or edit thescript and use Lancsoz4Resize instead) so you get a more detailed image, then add in a call tot he BlockBuster plugin to smooth out some of the blockiness.

If avisynth is too daunting, you could try the MSU Smart Deblocker in virtualdub, then frameserve to tmpgenc or similar.

Both of these solutions may provide some small improvements. However the basic truth of video is garbage in, garbage out, and downloaded Xvid/Divx files, especially the 90 movie in 700mb variety, fall squarely into the garbage category.

[FulciLives]

This thread might help:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=316333

There in that thread I ended up writing a mini-guide on how to convert MPEG-4 (DivX/XviD) AVI files to DVD MPEG-2 spec.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[T0t]

Like it or not, there is nothing you can do if you don't go an buy the original DVDs, or if originals do not exist. The flaws you are seeing exist in the original avi files. They look worse after conversion because you have resized the file up to DVD resolution, and the gamma of your TV is brighter than your monitor. All of this makes the problems that already existed appear to be much worse.

ConvertXtoDVD does accept avisynth scripts, so you could try using FitCD to create basic script to do the resizing using Lancsoz (or edit thescript and use Lancsoz4Resize instead) so you get a more detailed image, then add in a call tot he BlockBuster plugin to smooth out some of the blockiness.

If avisynth is too daunting, you could try the MSU Smart Deblocker in virtualdub, then frameserve to tmpgenc or similar.

Both of these solutions may provide some small improvements. However the basic truth of video is garbage in, garbage out, and downloaded Xvid/Divx files, especially the 90 movie in 700mb variety, fall squarely into the garbage category.

Well as mentioned I always make it a priority to get the most high quality AVI files possible, particularly dvdrips. But I do understand what you mean, I can't expect to achieve DVD quality out of AVI files. But the pixelation and artifacting that occurs is very noticeable and nearly unbearable. There has to be a way to achieve better results.

Keep in mind I am a newby. I have heard of avisynth and have read a little bit about it, but from the little I read it seems to be very daunting, especially for a newby such as myself. If I may be perfectly honest, I understood very little of your second paragraph. The reason being I'm very new to this and don't know as much as others do.

I've read little about virtualdub. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but if memory serves it's a video editing program? Is "MSU Smart Deblocker" included with virtualdub? Or would I have to download that seperately? What exactly do you mean by "frameserve"? You mention TMPGENC, would you say thats the best encoder out at the moment? Or at least the solution I'm looking for?

Also, any suggestions when it comes to dvd authoring programs? I'm sorry if I come off as newby or picky, but after about a year of bad encodes/burns, I'm ready for something better. I don't expect a miracle, I just want SOME improvement. Thanks for taking the time to reply guys, I appreciate it.

[vico1]

Going from using ConvertXtoDVD to using an individual ecoder and
frameserving with apps like avisynth with plugin scripts or virtualdub, is jumping
into the deeper end of the pool, so-to-speak.

Read all you can, about the individual apps, and their workings...This is a Must-Do!
Info here...and over at Doom9, is indispensable.

That being said, is tmpgenc the best...well that's always up for anybody's opinion.
It's One of the best (IMHO) along with CCE, Procoder and a few very good "freeware" apps.

Frameserver:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frameserver

[guns1inger]

Virtualdub is a frameserver with editing capabilities and a good line in plugins. The MSU Deblocker and Smart Deblocker are two such plugins. You load you video, apply the filters, tweak until you are happy, then start a frameserving session. This creates a signpost file that acts like your avi file, but is very small. You open this with your encoder, and it draws the video through the signpost file from virtualdub and encodes it.

You need to be aware that even with a good, fast encoder, this process will take around 4 times as long as using ConvertXtoDVD (about 8 times as long if you use tmpgenc), plus audio encoding and authoring.

Before you head down this path, then come back here complaining that either the encoders or the filters don't work, do this little test for me.

Open your avi in VLC. Press Ctrl+G to open the Extended GUI, and tick enable. Drag the Gamma slider to the right to brighten the video about 10 - 15%. Now drag the bottom corner until the display is approximately the same resolution as a DVD. Watch the video, especially the dark scenes and the action scenes etc. Note all the blocking and pixelation. This is what you already have, but usually don't see on your PC. You aren't going to get rid of this when you encode to DVD, no matter what filters you use. Deblockers may reduce the blockiness, but in it's place you will get blurring, pulsing, and an overall softening.

My strong suggestion ? Forget it. It's not worth the effort to convert any more. There are some very capable, low cost DVD players that will play Divx files as-is. Burn them as data, put 5 - 6 movies to a disc, and let the player do the work. You will still have the artifacts, but you haven't wasted hours not removing them.

[T0t]

Virtualdub is a frameserver with editing capabilities and a good line in plugins. The MSU Deblocker and Smart Deblocker are two such plugins. You load you video, apply the filters, tweak until you are happy, then start a frameserving session. This creates a signpost file that acts like your avi file, but is very small. You open this with your encoder, and it draws the video through the signpost file from virtualdub and encodes it.

You need to be aware that even with a good, fast encoder, this process will take around 4 times as long as using ConvertXtoDVD (about 8 times as long if you use tmpgenc), plus audio encoding and authoring.

Before you head down this path, then come back here complaining that either the encoders or the filters don't work, do this little test for me.

Open your avi in VLC. Press Ctrl+G to open the Extended GUI, and tick enable. Drag the Gamma slider to the right to brighten the video about 10 - 15%. Now drag the bottom corner until the display is approximately the same resolution as a DVD. Watch the video, especially the dark scenes and the action scenes etc. Note all the blocking and pixelation. This is what you already have, but usually don't see on your PC. You aren't going to get rid of this when you encode to DVD, no matter what filters you use. Deblockers may reduce the blockiness, but in it's place you will get blurring, pulsing, and an overall softening.

My strong suggestion ? Forget it. It's not worth the effort to convert any more. There are some very capable, low cost DVD players that will play Divx files as-is. Burn them as data, put 5 - 6 movies to a disc, and let the player do the work. You will still have the artifacts, but you haven't wasted hours not removing them.

Wow, you're right. I see all the blocks I see once I convert! But whenever I read message boards and such people are always saying they get great results once they burn the files to a dvd, or how great x encoder is, etc. Makes you want to achieve the same results :/

Not too long ago you mentioned being able to use scripts in order to partially improve video quality.

"ConvertXtoDVD does accept avisynth scripts, so you could try using FitCD to create basic script to do the resizing using Lancsoz (or edit thescript and use Lancsoz4Resize instead) so you get a more detailed image, then add in a call tot he BlockBuster plugin to smooth out some of the blockiness. "

Would you mind teaching me how to do that? Or point me to a guide? Assuming that I understood the paragraph you wrote, it should help right?

[FulciLives]

Did you read my post above ???

This thread might help:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=316333

There in that thread I ended up writing a mini-guide on how to convert MPEG-4 (DivX/XviD) AVI files to DVD MPEG-2 spec.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

That will get you started ... as for applying filters ... go to the following website:

http://avisynth.org/warpenterprises/

That website has nearly all of the AviSynth filters. Most (knock on wood) come with some TXT or DOC files (sometimes even in HTML) explaining how to use them. Some do not though ...

The doom9 website has a great AviSynth forum. Be warned though that there are gods among men there and don't be surprised if you are utterly confused ... at first. Hell even I don't understand half the shit they do sometimes

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[mats.hogberg]

T0t: guns1inger has actually provided the best solution. Not only does it save work and preserve what quality there is in your AVIs, the hardware alternative is much less than you have to shell out for a good mpeg encoder.

There are some very capable, low cost DVD players that will play Divx files as-is. Burn them as data, put 5 - 6 movies to a disc, and let the player do the work. You will still have the artifacts, but you haven't wasted hours not removing them.

/Mats

[FulciLives]

I have to admit that I still convert some downloaded MPEG-4 AVI files to standard MPEG-2 DVD Video but I did buy a Philips DVP-5140 from WALMART a couple or so months ago (just under $50 US Dollars) and it does a great job at MPEG-4 AVI files.

Another popular model is the Philips DVP-5960 which has a few additional features over the DVP-5140 but for most people I think the DVP-5140 is good enough and looks fine on my 51" 16x9 HDTV.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[guns1inger]

But whenever I read message boards and such people are always saying they get great results once they burn the files to a dvd, or how great x encoder is, etc. Makes you want to achieve the same results

Some people just do not notice these artifacts, or think that it is supposed to look like that. Some people just refuse to see how crap their conversions sometimes are.

To be honest, the kinds of message boards that discuss the quality of downloaded movies and use terms like "DVD quality" for something that is 580 x 220 and fits into only 700 mb for 110 minutes should be taken with a grain of salt. I bet they also recommend WinAVI and DVD Santa for doing conversions.

[mats.hogberg]

I have to admit that I still convert some downloaded MPEG-4 AVI files to standard MPEG-2 DVD Video

Well, so do I, but its a rare exception these days. Once in a while, I get an AVI that wont play on my standalone, so instead of reencoding to AVI, I think I might as well encode to mpg. Specially when I do stuff for my daughter - her DVD player doesn't do AVI.

/Mats

[FulciLives]

I have to admit that I still convert some downloaded MPEG-4 AVI files to standard MPEG-2 DVD Video

Well, so do I, but its a rare exception these days. Once in a while, I get an AVI that wont play on my standalone, so instead of reencoding to AVI, I think I might as well encode to mpg. Specially when I do stuff for my daughter - her DVD player doesn't do AVI.

/Mats

Same here ... if I have to re-encode due to incompatibility I'd rather just re-encode to standard MPEG-2 DVD spec. I had to do that with some TV episodes that played really "choppy" on my Philips DVP-5140 but played A-OK after I converted them to MPEG-2 DVD although even then there was some (though much less) choppyness ... I think due to a poor IVTC from 29.970fps to 23.976fps (the original AVI files were 23.976fps but the TV episodes were clearly recorded originally at 29.970fps).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lacywest]

I use ConvertXtoDVD and set the output to DVD-9 and then shrink the end result with DVDShrink or DVD Rebuilder.

Works for me.

[mats.hogberg]

I use ConvertXtoDVD and set the output to DVD-9 and then shrink the end result with DVDShrink

That's bound to give you lower q than if you'd set the convertx2dvd to output to DVD-5 to start with.
Every transcoding/reencoding pass takes some quality away. Doing the conversion in as few steps as possible is a basic principle.

/Mats

[T0t]

Wow, thanks for all the help guys.

In response to guns1inger:
Okay I've re-read the entire thread one more time in order to possibly grasp the best solution. It is not possible for me to buy a divx player at the moment, so that alternative is out. The other few alternatives I saw were either "encode with a standalone encoder and author the dvd" or try to improve the quality/blockiness of the source video using virtualdub or avisynth, correct?

ConvertXtoDVD does accept avisynth scripts, so you could try using FitCD to create basic script to do the resizing using Lancsoz (or edit thescript and use Lancsoz4Resize instead) so you get a more detailed image, then add in a call tot he BlockBuster plugin to smooth out some of the blockiness.

or

If avisynth is too daunting, you could try the MSU Smart Deblocker in virtualdub, then frameserve to tmpgenc or similar.

Now, out of the two which would you say is the best alternative? What I'm hoping to be able to do is make small changes to the original avi file to improve the blockiness, just by a little. Then "frameserve" to convertxtodvd, assuming it's possible to frameserve to convertxtodvd using either virtualdub or avisynth.

Would that be possible?

[mats.hogberg]

I don't think it's possible to frameserve to convertx2dvd from VirtualDub (possibly using VFWAPIConv) which leaves AviSynth...

/Mats

[T0t]

I don't think it's possible to frameserve to convertx2dvd from VirtualDub (possibly using VFWAPIConv) which leaves AviSynth...

/Mats

Hmm.. Virtual Dub is a video editing program, correct? Would it be possible to save the videos you've tweaked/edited in Virtual Dub as AVI files? Or can you only frameserve the videos to other applications?

Assuming that Virtual Dub can't frameserve to ConvertXtoDVD as you said.

[mats.hogberg]

VirtualDub can save AVI, yes, but unless you save out as uncompressed (or other lossless format like huffyuv) which is really HUGE, you'll only get an AVI that's worse than what you started with. You have to frameserve to the encoder from your filtering, not to just lose more, of what quality there is.
Unless you have plenty of HDD space and go the lossless AVI route.

/Mats

[T0t]

Aw, so you're positive I can't frameserve to convertxtodvd from Virtual Dub? Virtual Dub doesn't seem as daunting as avisynth.

Well, for starters. Should I keep using ConvertXtoDVD to convert my AVI files into DVD format? Or should I use another "all-in-one" converter. guns1inger made it clear that I would be wasting time by using tmpgenc to encode and a seperate program to author. Or a stand-alone encoder/author combo for that matter. The idea of waiting 8+ hours for my movies to convert doesn't really please me if you know what I mean.

If you guys suggest I keep using ConvertXtoDVD, could someone please show me how to use AviSynth with ConvertXtoDVD?

ConvertXtoDVD does accept avisynth scripts, so you could try using FitCD to create basic script to do the resizing using Lancsoz (or edit thescript and use Lancsoz4Resize instead) so you get a more detailed image, then add in a call tot he BlockBuster plugin to smooth out some of the blockiness.

Fulci, I read your guide. I promise I did. But I understood very little of it. I apologize if I come across as ignorant :/

[FulciLives]

Fulci, I read your guide. I promise I did. But I understood very little of it. I apologize if I come across as ignorant :/

Well the way that I learned how to do all this is:

1.) Read guides
2.) Read threads
3.) Actually do it

The more you "do it" the more you will learn "how to do it" even if you make some mistakes along the way. As you do it and actually interact with the tools (programs) rather than just read about them ... well as you do this you will begin to understand what this option does or what that option does etc.

If you would rather use TMPGEnc Plus then here is a guide for you: CLICK HERE

That is an "old" guide that still applies today (even though TMPGEnc Plus has been updated since) and that guide makes it fairly easy to understand various options (even though the "bigger picture" may not be clear at first).

That guide will also help with other MPEG-2 encoders (such as HCenc) because options from one encoder to the next are somewhat similar ... to an extent.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[toryamos]

crap in = crap out.
when you convert an AVI with say, a video bitrate of 784kbps into a DVD compliant MPEG-2 file of say, 8000kbps you are going to end up watching crap.
best you can do is The Film Machine with CCE SP 250, and it will still look crap!

[guns1inger]

I won't even pretend to claim this is the best avs script for avi to DVD conversion, but it did seem to make a difference. How much of a difference depends on the source, and generally the source that needed the least work got the greatest benefit.

# -= AviSynth v2.5.6.0 script by FitCD v1.2.4 =-
LoadPlugin("C:\Video\Avisynth 2.5\Plugins\aSharp.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Video\Avisynth 2.5\Plugins\BlockBuster.dll")
DirectShowSource("pathtoyourfile\yourfile.avi", audio="False")
BlockBuster(method="noise", block_size=16, detail_min=1, detail_max=10)
Lanczos4Resize(688,428,1,0,638,272)
aSharp(1,2,-1,false)
AddBorders(16,72,16,76)
ConvertToYUY2() #for CCE or ProCoder

This is derived from the standard avisynth script produced by FitCD. The statements in italics were changed by me because I DirectShowSource handles some packed avi files better than AviSource, and I prefer the Lancsoz4Resize algorithm for resizing up to DVD resolution.

The statements in Bold were added to smooth blocking artifacts and to then bring back detail. You will have yo experiment with different settings in Blockbuster (the max detail setting is the main one) and aSharp to get the best results.

[T0t]

I won't even pretend to claim this is the best avs script for avi to DVD conversion, but it did seem to make a difference. How much of a difference depends on the source, and generally the source that needed the least work got the greatest benefit.

# -= AviSynth v2.5.6.0 script by FitCD v1.2.4 =-
LoadPlugin("C:\Video\Avisynth 2.5\Plugins\aSharp.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Video\Avisynth 2.5\Plugins\BlockBuster.dll")
DirectShowSource("pathtoyourfile\yourfile.avi", audio="False")
BlockBuster(method="noise", block_size=16, detail_min=1, detail_max=10)
Lanczos4Resize(688,428,1,0,638,272)
aSharp(1,2,-1,false)
AddBorders(16,72,16,76)
ConvertToYUY2() #for CCE or ProCoder

This is derived from the standard avisynth script produced by FitCD. The statements in italics were changed by me because I DirectShowSource handles some packed avi files better than AviSource, and I prefer the Lancsoz4Resize algorithm for resizing up to DVD resolution.

The statements in Bold were added to smooth blocking artifacts and to then bring back detail. You will have yo experiment with different settings in Blockbuster (the max detail setting is the main one) and aSharp to get the best results.

Sorry for the late reply guys. Anyway I've been reading up on both FitCD and AviSynth. I think I understand things a bit more now.

FitCD is used to resize the AVI file through an AviSynth script, correct? guns1inger you say I should use Lanczos4Resize rather than Lanczos. Well, how would I go about using Lanczos4Resize rather than the default Lanczos? Do I simply edit the script manually? (ie. manually replace Lanczos for Lanczos4Resize)? Also, in FitCD, does it automatically choose what size you'll be resizing up to? For example, does it automatically choose Widescreen or Fullscreen? Or are you supposed to manually input these options?

Also, I noticed you posted up an AviSynth script.

# -= AviSynth v2.5.6.0 script by FitCD v1.2.4 =-
LoadPlugin("C:\Video\Avisynth 2.5\Plugins\aSharp.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Video\Avisynth 2.5\Plugins\BlockBuster.dll")
DirectShowSource("pathtoyourfile\yourfile.avi", audio="False")
BlockBuster(method="noise", block_size=16, detail_min=1, detail_max=10)
Lanczos4Resize(688,428,1,0,638,272)
aSharp(1,2,-1,false)
AddBorders(16,72,16,76)
ConvertToYUY2() #for CCE or ProCoder

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I noticed you had 2 plug-ins. The blockbuster plug-in and another one called aSharp. What exactly does the aSharp plug-in do? Would you reccomend I download that plug-in as well? As far as plug-in options, do you think the default options for both the blockbuster plug-in and the asharp plug-in will improve quality? Or do I have to tweak that as well?

And one final question, how would I go about importing an avisynth script into convertxtodvd?

I appreciate any and all help, thanks in advance.

[manono]

Hi-

Well, how would I go about using Lanczos4Resize rather than the default Lanczos?

By editing the script yourself.

Also, in FitCD, does it automatically choose what size you'll be resizing up to?

You choose whether you want a script to encode for 4:3 (anamorphic box unchecked) or 16:9 (anamorphic box checked) and it gives you the script for the one you chose. It's then up to you to set up the encoder the same way, for 4:3 or 16:9. Also, since you're setting the Destination for DVD 720, the resulting resolution will be 720x480. When in doubt, open the script in VDubMod and go File->File Information to confirm.

What exactly does the aSharp plug-in do?

aSharp is a sharpening filter.

As far as plug-in options, do you think the default options for both the blockbuster plug-in and the asharp plug-in will improve quality? Or do I have to tweak that as well?

He said he didn't make any claims for them, but that they worked for him. You'll have to decide for yourself whether or not to use them or other filters (or no filters), and at which settings. You can open the script in VDubMod to see the effects, or you can use the Trim command to isolate a small part of the movie so you can encode a small section to have a look at what they do.

[guns1inger]

Yes, you edit the script manually. I have a basic shell of s cript - pretty much as I have posted above, and just change the path and crop/addborder settings using the numbers from FitCD.

I recommend you install avsedit as your editing environment for scripts. It has a copy of the avisynth help files along with help on other plugins built-in, and makes editing scripts easier when you are first starting out. Later you will probably just do it in Notepad.

BlockBuster is used to smooth out the edges of the blocky artifacts. A sharp is used to bring back some of the detail lost by resizing up to DVD resolution. Start with the settings I have posted above, and then alter if you want strong details. I find aSharp to be pretty subtle, which is why I like it. Some sharpening filters cause very noticeable halo effects.

Finally, avisynth is a frameserver. You open the .avs file instead of your original avi file, and avisynth then opens the video in the background, processes it according to the script, and then passes the video through to the program that loaded the file.

Always open your avs file in virtualdubmpeg2 first (or one of the virtualdub clan, anyway) to make sure it works. If it doesn't, you will usually get an error message. Once you are happy, load it into ConvertXtoDVD and process it like any other file.

[manono]

Sorry, man. I didn't realize you were on the case.

[guns1inger]

No problem. My ISP will bump back up to full speed at midnight, and the lag won't be so great