Lordsmurf or anyone with DVD recorder experience... plz help me decide

[yomer]

Hi,
I want to buy a DVD Recorder from Best Buy this weekend. I'm looking into the range of $100-$200 recorders with DV(iLink), HDMI for upconversion, Dual Layer(preferably, almost necessary) and DIVX playback as a plus. Which one would you recommend. I'm considering the LG DR1F9H which is on sale. I could go look at Circuit City and CompUSA, but they don't have the extended warranty or service as Best Buy does. Well, if I were to extend my choices to those other two stores, what would anyone recommend? I'm interested mostly in DV camcorder to DVD and maybe later backing up old VHS tapes with the CT200 "adapter". Thanks in advance.

[lordsmurf]

Well, given all the specs you want, the LG is worth looking into. That was the first brand that came to my mind.

Tihis exact LG is also using an LSI chipset:
http://www.lsilogic.com/news/product_news/2006_07_25a.html

Probably a good buy for you. I wouldn't worry too much about warranties. They are usually overpriced, you won't need them, and if you do need it, they tend to do crappy repair work in-house instead of sending it to the manufacturer. Sure, if you want one, get one, but don't worry so much about it that you avoid products.

If you do get it, PM me afterwards. I have some questions.

[yomer]

The things that worry me are the possible lack of firmware support by LG and the DVD media recording compatibility. I've heard some good and some not so good comments about the this model. I was considering the SONY RDR-GX330(What's your experience with this unit?), but the lack of HDMI on the unit is a little bit disappointing. Should I worry to much about HDMI. I mean, many HD TVs have their upscaling processors. Is there anything else of an advantage to have HDMI upconverting on the DVD Recorder?

[lordsmurf]

The firmware support is not there for anybody, unless it's something truly major. And even then, most companies require it be sent it for them to do it, and it's only free under the manufacturer warranty period.

I honestly think you're worrying too much here. Use decent media (like VERBATIM 16x DVD-R or DVD+R, or SONY DVD+R, or Taiyo Yuden media), and there's nothing to worry about. I've never had to flash firmware or use a warranty on any of my DVD recorders, and I've been using the technology for several years now.

I'm not fond of the SONY recorders, the video tends to have mosquito noise and lacks filters. It's also a tad too pricey for what you get.

I don't think you'll gain much from HDMI or upconversion, because as you said, the tv does it already.

[JohnnyMalaria]

I'm looking into the range of $100-$200 recorders with DV(iLink)...I'm interested mostly in DV camcorder to DVD and maybe later backing up old VHS tapes with the CT200 "adapter". Thanks in advance.

One thing to think about is if you want to be able to go from a PC to the DVD recorder via iLink/Firewire. Not all DVD recorders support this. For example, the Insignia NS-DVDR1 ($99) has DV input but it only works with a direct connection from a camcorder.

[normcar]

If you have a Fry's in your area, you may want to get the JVC DR-MV7S unit. It does not use DL dvds, but they are not cheap at about 1.50/DLDVDR. I have also read that on some DL recorders, the 1st layer must be finalized before recording on the second layer, which eliminates many reasons for having a DVD Recorder for DL. Also the DL DVDRs are less compatable with many more DVD Players.

[yomer]

Excuse my lack of vision, but why would I need to connect my PC to the DVD Recorder via Firewire?

[JohnnyMalaria]

Excuse my lack of vision, but why would I need to connect my PC to the DVD Recorder via Firewire?

If you ever got to the point that you wanted to transfer DV from the camcorder to the computer to do some editing and then send the edited version to the DVD recorder.

[yomer]

true...
I just checked in Best Buy's page, and the LG recorder is no longer in stock in their store in McAllen. Does anyone know when does the store usually receive new shipments? The thing is I'm going on Saturday to McAllen, from Monterrey, Mexico... so I can only buy a recorder in stock. I'm hoping that by Saturday, more units will be available. Maybe I can hope to find an open box DVR... Which other Dual Layer recorder do you recommend in case the LG isn't available?

[trhouse]

The Panasonic DMR-ES25 is available at Circuit City for $169.95, has HDMI, and records both +/-DL but as mentioned above, it requires the first side be closed before recording to the second side with DL. This works fine if you are compiling clips like I am but not for a continuous title across layers.

I would be careful about firmware upgrades. If you go though these threads, some people are not happy with their firmware upgrades. The problem is once they upgrade, there is no way to go back.

[yomer]

hmmm.. I don't know, the Panasonic seems to have a serious amount of compatibility issues. Disc formats, DV connections with different brand camcorders, etc. The price is great, but it seems to carry a lot of problems with it. And, according to specs, officially it only reads DL DVDs. Maybe that is why it has to close layer 1 in order to continue recording in layer 2.

[yomer]

Damn... the LG Recorder is available once more at McAllen's Best Buy. Saturday cannot come any faster!!! I hope they stay in stock.

[trhouse]

I thought you must be mistaken about it officially only reading DL. Then I checked this link,

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalog...00000000005702

and this link,

http://www.panasonic.ca/English/audiovideo/dvdvcr/recorder/dmres25.asp

The information is contradictory, but the box the unit comes in says it records to both as does the manual.

I do not have one but I have a ES35V on loan and have recorded over 100 dvd+r DL's. I cannot say about the DV issues you mentioned since I have never used DV.

[edit]Can you ask them to reserve an LG for you?

[yomer]

I could ask, but they aren't allowed to do that.

I better take a couple of burned DVDs to check compatibility before I purchase it. If it's on display of course.

[lordsmurf]

The Panasonic is crap as a DL recorder, because you have to finalize one layer before using the next. Sort of ruins the point.

[trhouse]

There is a right tool for every job. It is the only recorder that allows compiling clips with control over when the change will occur. If recorders could make it seamless across the change it would not matter but so far no recorder I have tested handles the transistion as well as the computer.

Perhaps this LG model can. Would be nice.

[yomer]

I guess I'm going to be the guinea pig this time. Any last comments or suggestions? I'll go look for it tomorrow morning.

[BCdave]

yomer, I hope you get the DR1F9H on Saturday. That model isn't available in Canada, but I have a 2 year old LG LGR435, which still works perfectly, and 6 weeks ago I picked up their LRH780, which is an 80GB HDD model (and which seems, oddly enough, to be available only in Canada). Like the DR1F9H, the LRH780 has the current generation LSI encoding chip, and thanks to LSI, video conversion and recording from the tuner produces excellent video quality, noticeably better than the original.

I just tried recording to +RDL for the 1st time today, and it recorded and played back perfectly (on Verbatim media). I tried to find the layer break, but was unable to spot it; however, I'm not sure exactly where it is, so I'm not guaranteeing that it's a seamless transition.

IMO, the only worthwhile feature that the LG models are missing is the FR (flexible recording) mode, which encodes at the optimum bit rate to fill the blank media. I understand that Pioneer, Toshiba & some Panasonic recorders have this desireable feature, but they're lacking the LSI chip, and I'm not willing to accept that tradeoff.

I'm sure you'll love the LG, yomer - Hope you get lucky in McAllen tomorrow.

[lordsmurf]

IMO, the only worthwhile feature that the LG models are missing is the FR (flexible recording) mode, which encodes at the optimum bit rate to fill the blank media. I understand that Pioneer, Toshiba & some Panasonic recorders have this desireable feature, but they're lacking the LSI chip, and I'm not willing to accept that tradeoff..

JVC has FR mode (except DR-M70, DRMV7), a machine that uses the LSI Logic DMN chipsets,
but of course those are getting harder and harder to find these days.

Figures, right?

[rufusrex]

Looking at the pics of the LG it looks like there is only an S-Video hookup in front. Why wouldn't they put one in back? How much of a hit do you take using a RCA instead of S-Video?

[BCdave]

Yeah, lordsmurf, based on my delight with the LSI chipset (in my single disc LG LGR435), and on your information/recommendations on JVC, I had anticipated buying the fabled JVC DR-M101S HDD model as soon as it arrived in Canada ... However, after waiting (& waiting & waiting) for its North American release, I finally "settled" for the LG LRH780 when they went on sale for $340 Can (about $300US), which is probably a lot cheaper than the DR-M101S would have been.
Except for the lack of FR mode (which I work around by recording in XP mode & processing on the computer), I am totally happy with the LG, and so far I have discovered no flaws, fatal or otherwise.

Incidentally, for any interested Canadians or border dwellers, Future Shop has a 16 hour sale starting Sunday afternoon, with 10% off the lowest ticketed price for DVD recorders. LG models LRH780 (80GB HDD) and LRH790 (250GB plus HDMI upconvert) are currently on sale for $330 Can and $500 Can respectively, and should be even further reduced tomorrow.

rufusrex, my LG has the S-VHS & DV inputs only on the front panel, it's true - but I find that to be MUCH more convenient if I'm switching cables from different sources, and my wife has long ago abandoned any attempts at imposing order on the rat's nest of my A/V wiring. For me, utility trumps aesthetics.

[MeekloBraca]

I loved the LG models. The quality was fanatastic, but as you said...no FR Mode. So back they went.

[FulciLives]

LordSmurf would know for sure but if I am not mistaken I think JVC is the only company to make a stand alone DVD recorder based on the LSI chip that has implemented FR or FLEX recording (i.e., not fixed recording times).

Are the other companies using the LSI chip just lazy or does that chip make FR/FLEX difficult to implement and somehow only JVC figured it out or bothered to do it?

As for me I am very happy with my Pioneer stand alone HDD equiped DVD recorder which not only has very good recording quality but also FR/FLEX recording ... the only downside is that it will use Full D1 resolution for far too long (doesn't switch to Half D1 resolution until roughly the 3 1/2 hour mark).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

Lazy companies. And companies that think people are stupid and only need "modes". Plus it probably costs more to implement.

[jamiemark]

[quote="FulciLives"]As for me I am very happy with my Pioneer stand alone HDD equiped DVD recorder which not only has very good recording quality but also FR/FLEX recording ... the only downside is that it will use Full D1 resolution for far too long (doesn't switch to Half D1 resolution until roughly the 3 1/2 hour mark).


I've discovered my JVC DRM-100S switches to Half D1 resoultion at the FR155 mode (2 hour 35 minutes). You're right, up to 3 1/2 hours at D1 is way too long. Pioneer machines are very good though.

[lordsmurf]

FR155 on earlier JVC models was 720x480. It was not until FR165 that they changed. Be sure to test your machines thoroughly.

[next]

Yes it is important to understand the capabilities of the individual JVC models. But I have heard that there is a tendency for them to blow up.

[MeekloBraca]

"I've discovered my JVC DRM-100S switches to Half D1 resoultion at the FR155 mode (2 hour 35 minutes). "

Yeah when you go through the FR Modes you see the stars there are a good indication. The FR 155 mode is much much better than the FR 150 mode. IM not sure which resolution number they run at.

The Panny 20 runs FR Mode and is LSI, BUT you cant pause during recording which is just god damn laziness on Panasonic's part in incorporating that feature.

[lordsmurf]

Those stars can be misleading. Best to check in GSPOT.

[FulciLives]

The Panny 20 runs FR Mode and is LSI, BUT you cant pause during recording which is just god damn laziness on Panasonic's part in incorporating that feature.

I forgot about this model.

So next to JVC this is the only other LSI with FR/FLEX recording.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman