Microsoft Limits Vista Transfers - UPDATE Microsoft Backtracks

[CaptainVideo]

Link to CNET Article
Basically they are forcing you to purchase a new license/copy of Vista if you move it to a third computer.

In the past, those who bought a retail copy of Windows needed to uninstall it from any machine before moving it to another machine, but there was no limit to how many times this could be done.

Now the limit is to just one time.

Under changes to Microsoft's licensing terms, buyers of retail copies of Vista will be able to transfer their software to a new machine only once.

It's being debated online if this in fact is a new policy, which it is. So here is some of the debate fodder.

Here is the pro Microsoft argument completely bias. Paul Thurrott's SuperSite

And a more non-biased opinion which I happen to believe is correct.
Ed Bott of ZDnet and Another ZDnet Blog

I think this is just insane. There was already enough of a reason not to purchase Vista. This just cements it. If you swap out your motherboard twice, this new EULA states you have to purchase a new license for Vista, otherwise your copy of Vista goes into Lame/Crippled mode. Looks like I'll be using XP forever until I finally get better at using Linux and more and better apps get ported over.

[oldandinthe way]

Anyone who upgrades to Vista without a strong identifiable need is NUTS.

Its slower, different for the sake of being different and a resource hog.

However a move it once approach is little to bitch about. Computer manufacturers like Dell already change motherboard serial numbers to avoid XP reloads. The owner of a factory built machine runs no risk of unintended forced repurchase. And manufacturer specific XPs already exist.

Folks who roll their own and frequently upgrade MOBOs are an almost insignificant part of the market. They'll just have be be bright enough to hack Vista

[lordsmurf]

Here is the pro Microsoft argument completely bias. Paul Thurrott's SuperSite

That's worse that bias, it's mostly outright bullshit.

He's trying to retrofit the XP license to what he thinks it should have been.
Doesn't work that way.

I guess I need to buy that laptop I want before they start vomiting Vista on them.

[CaptainVideo]

are an almost insignificant part of the market

You are joking right? There is a magazine that caters to this group called MaximumPC that has a circulation of over 300,000 readers. There are countless major websites that cater to this market with a combined reach in the millions. It is not an insignificant group. They are the early adopter, technology influencers and biggest spenders on technology. You don't want to piss off that group and Microsoft is clearly pissing them off.

Let's say according to the Paul Thurrott article that it only affects 5% of Windows Licenses, well Microsoft's own guy puts that number at 1 billion worldwide, that is 100 million users. Far from insignificant.

[RLT69]

Folks who roll their own and frequently upgrade MOBOs are an almost insignificant part of the market. They'll just have be be bright enough to hack Vista

I think the point you are missing is that when people buy the Full Retail Version of Vista, like they did with XP, there should be no limit on the number of times you install Vista on a new system so long as you removed it from your old system; just like people were able to do with XP and all previous Retail versions of Windows.

[lenti_75]

fuckers...I guess we have to buy a hack for it .....
if I buy something I want to use it unlimited. you have to install windows at least twice a year anyway, because it's so good that it crashes....

[Bjs]

Its getting to that time where microsoft is about to cut its own throat ... esspecially when the new flavour will come out in different versions ... more confussion ... and plenty of complaints from customers who had not been told that in order to perform specific funtions well ... they had to have purchased a completely different version ...

Remember what happened to the tv series "firefly" ... a few websites started up , and people got together ... then the show got cut .

So many members complained , that the powers that be , had to get the gang back together so as to create the movie .

Thats people power used in the right dirrection ... it should now be turned towards microsoft ... and aimed right between the eye's ... you should have every right to move your current os from one pc to another without issue , provided that the os is uninstalled from the previous pc .

I like doing things that I want too do on "MY" pc ... not told ... unless ms pays for my pc ... but then looking out the window , hell hasnt frozen over yet ... the cat has .

--------------

Until recently , debian now supports my avery capture card ... so it's linux system builds and support from now on .

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Thankfully when I bought xp pro ... mine say's it's registered , even though I dont get all the updates , thats fine ... but I dont get bugged by that annoying message and having to wait for that button to clear so as to click it .

wgatray.exe is simple to remove ... if it's bugging you , delete wgatray.exe , and the wga thing next to it in the windows system dir ... reboot and it's gone .

The dlls are another thing as the shell has been updated .... you need the original's ... I am killing them on a test pc using linux to see what "if" happen's ... backups of course , and try again ... thanks to the ms log I know which dll's and reg keys are involved ... idiots .

I noticed that the clean system restore point date is removed when wga is installed , so you cannot roll back before it entered ... ms should be crucified for that stunt .

Now off to kill xp ...

[lacywest]

Yep just saw the article ... totally messed up .... don't even like this idea ... I moved my Win XP installs from computer to computer .... quite a few times.

Last June ... Best Buy was selling MS WinXP for $50 bucks ... and I bought 2 of them ... a few weeks before that ... $60 bucks ... I think I bought 1 or maybe two of them.

I had so many copies lying around ... geez ... I found one of them under my passenger car seat ... a few days ago.

Reading the other posts ... that gets me thinking ... what happens when the C Drive hard drive croaks ... and you have to reinstall MS Vista ... what happens if I upgrade to another mother board ... that uses PCI Express ... and I have reinstall MS Vista .... ????

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9590_22-6126379.html?tag=nl.e589

Windows Vista may have new features for mobile computers, but the operating system itself is becoming considerably less portable.

Under changes to Microsoft's licensing terms, buyers of retail copies of Vista will be able to transfer their software to a new machine only once. If they want to move their software a second time, they will have to buy a new copy of the operating system.

In the past, those who bought a retail copy of Windows needed to uninstall it from any machine before moving it to another machine, but there was no limit to how many times this could be done.

"It was something that had been abused from a piracy perspective before," said Shanen Boettcher, a general manager in Microsoft's Windows Vista unit. "We're just being clear it's one move from machine to machine that you are licensed for."

[painkiller]

I have had more than a few hard drives go bye-bye (even now 2 PCs are down until I re-build them).
Even a motherboard.

For MS to even suggest that someone, such as myself, would be a criminal because I have had too many pieces of hardware go bad - yet still be able to retain the software (on original cdrom no less) and use it on subsequent PCs....

That's just wrong.

EULAs need to be contested in court. Just because a company writes something down and won't really let you in on it until you ACCEPT it and install the software - - doesn't make this carte blanch legal. These are ludicrous instruments of confusion. They differ from company to company. No standards to them.


And worse, support becomes no support at all because of this crapola.

[BJ_M]

unf$@##%%%believable ......

i see no reason to install it now either ...

[MOVIEGEEK]

Brilliant marketing scheme:MS can make more money with a shrinking market because the consumer has to buy a Vista CD when they buy a new HDD.
To MS and the Vista OS I say...

[MOVIEGEEK]

I guess I need to buy that laptop I want before they start vomiting Vista on them.

Good point because in a year you won't have a choice when you buy a new PC/notebook.

[dvdguy4]

Stupid question but how can they get away with this? Thats BS.
Just gives me away to stay with Xp I guess. Theyre not gonna get my $$$ if I cant reinstall as much as I would like .

[CaptainVideo]

The only hope we have is that the EU forces them to not do it. The EU already has convicted them as a monopoly so they can force them to change their EULA based on that monopoly. The US should, but they tend to cater to big business rather then protect the US consumer. I do think a group will sue if this is the final EULA upon release. I think whoever sues will likely win based on past behavior. That it used to be permissable to transfer an unlimited amount of times.

I'd like to take it a step further though. I think if I buy an OS it should be licensed to ME. Not to a computer. I should be able to install it on as many computers as I own. I think it's nuts to shell out 30% to sometimes 50% of the cost of a computer for an OS and only be able to install it on one computer. This didn't use to be the case. Before XP I could buy one OS and install it on several computers (I know the EULA's didn't approve of it) but I was able to do it and should still be able.

[adam]

Brilliant marketing scheme:MS can make more money with a shrinking market because the consumer has to buy a Vista CD when they buy a new HDD.

No HDD's don't count. According to all of MS's license agreements the only upgrade that results in a new "physical hardware system" is a motherboard upgrade. Upgrading the hard drive or even all other components will not require a new Vista OS license, though it may trigger reactivation which is no big deal at all.

Still really sucks that you are basically allowed a single mobo upgrade before you have to repurchase the os. When it comes to licensing terms like this, they can do whatever they want. The part that is unfair is that the retail version costs so much more than the OEM version because of the very fact that it is not tied to the pc it is sold with. But under these new terms its just tied to the 2nd pc it winds up on, and that's not much better.

Oh, and that Paul Thurrott is an absolute idiot.

[dvdguy4]

This is gonna hurt MS big picture. Can only wonder how much they spent designing it . Looks to me that its just an XP upgrade.
Money rules the world while greed ruins it.

[lacywest]

Brilliant marketing scheme:MS can make more money with a shrinking market because the consumer has to buy a Vista CD when they buy a new HDD.

No HDD's don't count. According to all of MS's license agreements the only upgrade that results in a new "physical hardware system" is a motherboard upgrade. Upgrading the hard drive or even all other components will not require a new Vista OS license, though it may trigger reactivation which is no big deal at all.

Still really sucks that you are basically allowed a single mobo upgrade before you have to repurchase the os. When it comes to licensing terms like this, they can do whatever they want. The part that is unfair is that the retail version costs so much more than the OEM version because of the very fact that it is not tied to the pc it is sold with. But under these new terms its just tied to the 2nd pc it winds up on, and that's not much better.

Oh, and that Paul Thurrott is an absolute idiot.

okay fine ... but all my mother boards use AGP cards ... eventually I will make the PCI Express plunge. I just today bought a 500 watt power supply because I want to install a ATI X1600/X1650 AGP video card ... I have 5 or 6 hardrives already installed in my MSI motherboard and the specs on the ATI X1650 video card says I should make sure my power supply is at least 450 watts.

So what happens next year ... my mobo does support AMD dual CPU cores but suppose a newer one comes out or I do take the PCI Express plunge ... etc ... etc ... too many variables ... Microsoft is definitely getting money hungry.

[Kairo]

Sigh.... Just when I thought that they could not get any worse. I will be using Suse or Debian only in the future. Micro$oft will not be getting anymore of my money! Eyecandy is useless to me anyway.

[ViRaL1]

Still waiting for a compelling reason FOR upgrading to Vista. I've seen plenty against.

[stiltman]

Still waiting for a compelling reason FOR upgrading to Vista. I've seen plenty against.

Its New?

[oldandinthe way]

US Unit Sales of PCs are over 50 million units per year. I repeat my contention that roll your own PCs are a small market segment.

In spite of the fact that many web retailers make a good living off them, and niche magazines can find an audience. There are in excess of 2,000 new magazines launched each year, most of them for niche audiences.

Microsoft has taken a stand which primarily affects your group. The direct economic consequenses are small. Indirectly it may deter some early adopters.

As for the EU, they are not consumer oriented. Their antitrust actions have been primarily to protect competitors of Microsoft who cannot compete. To date their efforts have neither increased consumer choice, nor led to lower prices. In fact the long term effects will be Higher prices, since bundling is deterred. (Of course you roll your own folks rarely get a bundle with your system purchases).

[RLT69]

As for the EU, they are not consumer oriented. Their antitrust actions have been primarily to protect competitors of Microsoft who cannot compete. To date their efforts have neither increased consumer choice, nor led to lower prices. In fact the long term effects will be Higher prices, since bundling is deterred.

You want to back that up with some facts.

The EU has been the only government agency to have the balls to tell Microsoft that they are not complying the Anti Trust decision to provide documentation of their APIs so other software can work with Microsoft's operating system. The United States is sorely lacking in this area.

Actually the EU's work has actually lead to more choice. It has lead to the adoption of ODF for several governmental agencies. It has lead to several governments to explore other operating systems beyond Windows and to adopt other operating systems such as Linux.

In fact the greatest benefit from the EU's actions has been bringing to the foreground the problem of what to do with digital documents being stored in proprietary formats and being able to access them well into the future. This becomes more important every day as we move more information into the digital realm.

Good job trolling though.

[normcar]

Big Brother Bill is getting to be more of a pain every day (don't believe for a minute, that he is not in control of MS). His ultimate goal is to have you pay everytime you logon to windows or any other software. If he thought people would pay for it, he would charge for every keystroke, or mouse click you do.

In the future, you will simply send him your money, and get no upgrades. Heck, I would pay for that now.

[InXess]

First it was about market share for MS. Now, with almost the whole market in their pocket, all of us well hooked on, it's time to pay up...

[fritzi93]

Sigh.... Just when I thought that they could not get any worse. I will be using Suse or Debian only in the future. Micro$oft will not be getting anymore of my money! Eyecandy is useless to me anyway.

I'm in sympathy with that. I've played with various flavors of Linux and could adjust, but not sure my marriage could stand forcing my wife to change from Windows. Maybe dual-boot. But the vast majority of consumers will submit to Vista, and admittedly it can be difficult getting some programs to work in WINE, as well as LINUX drivers being a pain in the butt.

At any rate for now and the foreseeable future I simply have no need for anything Vista offers. They've gotten their last dollar from me as well. My next machine will be built by me, and I'll just install Win2000 on it. Still have the install disc for that.

[oldandinthe way]

As for the EU, they are not consumer oriented. Their antitrust actions have been primarily to protect competitors of Microsoft who cannot compete. To date their efforts have neither increased consumer choice, nor led to lower prices. In fact the long term effects will be Higher prices, since bundling is deterred.

You want to back that up with some facts.

The EU has been the only government agency to have the balls to tell Microsoft that they are not complying the Anti Trust decision to provide documentation of their APIs so other software can work with Microsoft's operating system. The United States is sorely lacking in this area.

Actually the EU's work has actually lead to more choice. It has lead to the adoption of ODF for several governmental agencies. It has lead to several governments to explore other operating systems beyond Windows and to adopt other operating systems such as Linux.

In fact the greatest benefit from the EU's actions has been bringing to the foreground the problem of what to do with digital documents being stored in proprietary formats and being able to access them well into the future. This becomes more important every day as we move more information into the digital realm.

Good job trolling though.

I don't see any new products available as a result of EU action. (Name them if you can). I don't see any cost savings (Microsoft operating systems haven't dropped in price, and some people have to buy features that were given away).

Microsoft has made clear their desire to offer storage in PDF format in the next release of Office, Adobe is suing to prevent it. Microsoft has offered more document formats for storage than anyone else for the past 15 years. The fact that people have readily prefered to use Microsofts default format is not an antitrust issue.

The fact that no one wants to run Sun's Star Office, or Word Perfect is not a result of lack of API documentation, its the fact that corporations standardized on Office and home users want to run what they know from the work enviornment. Many corporations had to bite the bullet and drop their standardization on Word Perfect, when Microsoft outraced them in the features race. It cost a fortune and they won't do it again.

The Wall Street Journal has analyzed the EU antitrust actions in many cases, and identified a different standard than US anti-trust actions which are based on harm to the consumer.

Business users regularly adopt a single standard application. End users prefer to use the "free" software bundle they get with their machine. The only real software market is games and anti-virus. And anti-virus software is dependant on the security holes Microsoft leaves. The best-selling video software comes from Nero and Roxio and Intervideo, all are heavily dependant on OEM versions for revenue. Microsoft even licenses software from Roxio for use in XP.

The EU focus on API is a false issue. The EU's attempts to limit Vista can only increase costs - hopefully only for Europeans, but potentially for everyone.

[TwistedLincoln]

I have long maintained that Product Activation would be used to take away all of a user's rights... looks like Microsoft is once again proving me right.

This whole "license transfer" thing is nonsense. As far as I'm concerned, when you purchase a piece of software, you purchase a single license for it -- THAT IS GOOD FOREVER. Anyone who would purchase a license that can never be transfered to a new or upgraded machine is a fool.

I am sick of Product Activation, DRM, and other technological measures that are embedded in products for the sole purpose of taking away control of people's purchases, and putting it in the hands of the developer. I am no advocate of piracy -- I believe in purchasing what I use. But for some reason, companies like Microsoft feel the need to punish me, their legitimate customer, for the actions of those who would steal. And the worst part -- none of these punishments do anything to stop piracy, they only take away my rights to use what I paid for.

I strongly encourage everyone to BOYCOTT Vista, and any other product that uses Product Activation or DRM.

[oldandinthe way]

I too resent the actions Microsoft has taken to protect its intellectual rights.

The test to make sure I have a genuine copy of XP wastes my time.

I also resent the need for frequent security updates, antivirus software, anti-spyware software, anti-spam software and other obstacles for using my computer and its software to meet my needs and desires.

When we can find a method to prevent these ills without subjecting the innocent to restriction and inconvenience, we will all be happier, even "the evil empire".

Perhaps deterrence is the answer. Implement Sharia Law and cut off the right hand of intellectual property thieves. Apply the same penalty to spammers, junk mailers and telemarketers.

[RLT69]

The EU focus on API is a false issue. The EU's attempts to limit Vista can only increase costs - hopefully only for Europeans, but potentially for everyone.

It would help if you actually knew what you talking about. The APIs in question are for networking:

"Microsoft is required, within 120 days, to disclose complete and accurate interface documentation which would allow non-Microsoft work group servers to achieve full interoperability with Windows PCs and servers. This will enable rival vendors to develop products that can compete on a level playing field in the work group server operating system market."

http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/04/382&format=HTML&aged...guiLanguage=en

FUDing and Trolling at the sametime, good job.

[normcar]

Perhaps deterrence is the answer. Implement Sharia Law and cut off the right hand of intellectual property thieves. Apply the same penalty to spammers, junk mailers and telemarketers.

First apply it to bad software creators, bad music creators, and bad music/movie companies charging high prices for crap while blaming the consumer for not buying it. Big Brother Bill wouldn't have any arms, legs or body left if he had something chopped off for all the bad crap shoved down our throat. He'd be a talking head without a nose or ears, like in the cartoon show.