3 hours mode in 720x480

[st1lgar]

Hi,
I've searched for a cheap DVD recorder and I almost bought a Lite-On LVW-5005XS when I've seen in the specifications that altough it does the 3h mode, it does it at 352x480 (see below). This is not a DVD format...
Is there a (cheap AND reliable) recorder that does the 3 hours mode ar 720x480?


HQ Approx. 1 hour 720x480
SP Approx. 2 hours 720x480
LP Approx. 3 hours 352x480
EP Approx. 4 hours 352x480
SLP Approx. 6 hours 352x240

Thanks

[ghoster]

look up what is dvd. it clearly shows that 352x480 is a dvd complaint format.

[jagabo]

Panasonic ES15S does 720x480 in 4 hour mode and Flex mode at 3 hours.

[lordsmurf]

720x480 needs more bitrate than what is allowed at 3-4 hours (on single layer media). It will be blocky, and overall look like crap with plenty of encoder noise. Panasonic is especially yucky.

352x480 is a better allocation. Actually, at 3 hours, it is an OPTIMAL allocation.

[st1lgar]

Thanks for correction ghoster but this is not the point.

What I need is the best quality that I can get out of a recorder and not semantics...

When I think of DVD I mean full D1 not half. DVD is olso the VCD 352x288 resolution. Would you record something, anything, inthis crappy format?

jagabo, that's what I needed.

lordsmurf, good reason for why I shouldn't look for something like this,

Thanks to you all

[kitty]

Dual layer recorders could put 4 hours quite nicely on one DL disc but you'd have to split it into two 2 hour recordings as current dual layer recorders don't automatically cross the DL boundary (at least the Panasonics don't and I have not heard others can).

[Jester700]

Thanks for correction ghoster but this is not the point.

What I need is the best quality that I can get out of a recorder and not semantics...

When I think of DVD I mean full D1 not half. DVD is olso the VCD 352x288 resolution. Would you record something, anything, inthis crappy format?

Though not what you asked, LS's comment was EXACTLY the point. You say "best quality", not "highest resolution" - and the two are not synonymous - it depends on bitrate.

If I wanted to put 6 hours on a DVD, YES I WOULD use VCD resolution. Are you saying that at that bitrate you'd still use Full D1? And guess what? That's what DVD recorders do - because as crappy as VCD is, full D1 at that rate would look even worse.

[ktnwin]

Hmm... 3 hours at 720x480 will not look as good as 352x480 on the TV screen.
The 720x480 will show fuzziness on the TV screen while the half D1 resolution look great.
VCD is crappy because of the 352x240 (240 !!!) and the fixed bit rate 1150kbps (too low for comfort). A few years ago, I used to make VCD (standard) and XVCD (352x240 but with higher bit rate), XVCD look a lot better than VCD. Then I learned to make SVCD (352x480), the video quality improves much much more.
Now I am totally relieve with DVD format, so flexible, and I still prefer half D1 for 3 hours or longer video per disc.

[Robbins1940]

The Pioneer 433H does 720*576(480) upto 3 hours and 30 minutes in video mode.

[FulciLives]

The Pioneer DVR-531H-s ... the DVR-533H-s ... and the DVR-633H-s ... all three models will do 3 hours at Full D1 resolution (720x480 for NTSC) ... in fact they do not switch from Full D1 to Half D1 (352x480 for NTSC) until approximately 220 minutes or 3 hours and 40 minutes.

However as other people are trying to tell you ... Full D1 looks like shit at a bitrate needed in order to fit 3 hours onto one single layer DVD recordable.

For 3 hours on one single layer DVD recordable you need to use Half D1 in order to get a clean looking video ... in other words a video without excessive MPEG compression artifacts.

Yes it is true that 720x480 will look sharper than the slightly softer looking 352x480 but you would be surprised that the difference (in terms of resolution) is not that extreme.

So the choice at 3 hours boils down to this ...

1.) Full D1 with a slightly sharper image than Half D1 but full of MPEG compression artifacts.
2.) Half D1 with a slightly softer image than Full D1 but with a clean look i.e., little to no MPEG compression artifacts.

I used the 3 hour mode on my Pioneer DVR-531H-s once and I hated it. Never used it again. I am actually PISSED OFF that Pioneer doesn't use Half D1 at the 3 hour mark.

To each his own.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Robbins1940]

The Pioneer DVR-531H-s ... the DVR-533H-s ... and the DVR-633H-s ... all three models will do 3 hours at Full D1 resolution (720x480 for NTSC) ... in fact they do not switch from Full D1 to Half D1 (352x480 for NTSC) until approximately 220 minutes or 3 hours and 40 minutes.

However as other people are trying to tell you ... Full D1 looks like shit at a bitrate needed in order to fit 3 hours onto one single layer DVD recordable.

For 3 hours on one single layer DVD recordable you need to use Half D1 in order to get a clean looking video ... in other words a video without excessive MPEG compression artifacts.

Yes it is true that 720x480 will look sharper than the slightly softer looking 352x480 but you would be surprised that the difference (in terms of resolution) is not that extreme.

So the choice at 3 hours boils down to this ...

1.) Full D1 with a slightly sharper image than Half D1 but full of MPEG compression artifacts.
2.) Half D1 with a slightly softer image than Full D1 but with a clean look i.e., little to no MPEG compression artifacts.

I used the 3 hour mode on my Pioneer DVR-531H-s once and I hated it. Never used it again. I am actually PISSED OFF that Pioneer doesn't use Half D1 at the 3 hour mark.

To each his own.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

I hate the softness of half D1 mode.

[edDV]

We will regret recording low bitrates to DVDR just like we now regret using EP mode back then for the VHS classics.

[mats.hogberg]

Better soft than full of compression artefacts, IMO. But like FulciLives say - To each his own.

/Mats

[Robbins1940]

Better soft than full of compression artefacts, IMO. But like FulciLives say - To each his own.

/Mats

It all depends on what you are recording doesn't it. If it is sports then yep it is going to look crap in full D1 but if it is slow like a drama where there isn't any fast action movement you will get away with full D1 at 3 hours.

[davideck]

352 sampling is beyond my tolerance level for picture softness, particularly for OTA, SVHS, and BI source material. Most of my VHS and BII tapes look better at 720 sampling as well. Only a slight few of my EP VHS and BIII Beta recordings were soft enough to make 352 sampling look acceptable.

Nevertheless, I also think that 352 sampling is the better choice for 3 hour mode.

[mats.hogberg]

It all depends on what you are recording doesn't it.

It sure does. Talking heads need very little bitrate - high action lots.

/Mats