JVC DR-M100S versus Toshiba DR-4!!!!!

[mikej3131]

Ok here goes the two dvd recorders i have narrowed my search down to. The Toshiba DR-4 and the JVC DR-M100S. Both are similar in price so can someone help me out on what specs are better. i went on several websites and gathered info about the two. here is what ive come to.

Ok here are the specs i saw that the toshiba but and the JVC didnt :

# Preset bit rates and audio settings for 5 levels of recording options - now i definitaly am favoring the toshiba for this reason because i dont know much about bit rates so having them preset will do me nicely, plus it has 5 diff. recording options.
# 3:2 Pulldown Digital Cinema Progressive - what is this?
# Comb Filter 2-line Digital - what is this? Does the JVC have this?
# Black Level Expansion - does the JVC have this?
# 0 IRE / 7.5 IRE Recording Selection - isnt this important? does the JVC have this feature?
# Time Base Correction - isnt this very important to have? and does the JVC unit have this?
# Dolby® Digital/DTS® Compatible - what does this mean, wil i be able to record dolby digital and i wont with the JVC?
# On-Screen Keyboard - here is another feature i like and am hoping the JVC has this. does it?
# component output - always good to have this

Here are the specs that i saw that the JVC had but the toshiba didnt have :

# VCR Plus+ On-Screen Programming - dont know what this is, can someone explain it?
# 30 disc Resume Function - dont know what it is?
# Variable Slow (Forward & Reverse) - dont know what it is?


Here are the specs that both the JVC and toshiba had but different kinds :
toshiba

1) Auto Title/Chapter/Thumbnail Creation
2)ColorStream Pro® Progressive Scan Component Video Outputs
JVC

1) DVD Navigation with Animated Thumbnail and Audio (only in vr mode)
2) Motion Adaptive Progressive Scan Output (for video source)

Same Spec 1) once again, the toshiba is in my favor because it has title chapter and tumbnail creation and the JVC only says thumbnail and audio(whatever that is?)
Same Spec 2) dont know what has better progressive scan. Can anyone tell me?


The only thing im not going to b able to figure out until i get it or untill someone can tell me is (what recorder produces a better dvd) and (what recorder is going to let me copy cable channels - specifically 5c protectd NFL channel on comcast with a motorola dct6214 dvr)

So if anyone wants to put there two cents in on which is better and why, feel free as i didnt understand half of that stuff i just posted haha

[pinetop]

Do you have an amount you want to spend ?

The Toshiba(mostly refurbs & open box) can be purchased for like half the cost of the JVC.

[mikej3131]

actually probly at most 200 dollars.

i just want the better recorder. And it for sure absolutly has to record shows from nfl channel(which i know has 5c copy once protection and dont know if that channel has any other copy protection) but i heard 5c doesnt appply to analog connections.

[lordsmurf]

TOSHIBA
# Preset bit rates and audio settings for 5 levels of recording options - now i definitaly am favoring the toshiba for this reason because i dont know much about bit rates so having them preset will do me nicely, plus it has 5 diff. recording options.
# 3:2 Pulldown Digital Cinema Progressive - what is this?
# Comb Filter 2-line Digital - what is this? Does the JVC have this?
# Black Level Expansion - does the JVC have this?
# 0 IRE / 7.5 IRE Recording Selection - isnt this important? does the JVC have this feature?
# Time Base Correction - isnt this very important to have? and does the JVC unit have this?
# Dolby® Digital/DTS® Compatible - what does this mean, wil i be able to record dolby digital and i wont with the JVC?
# On-Screen Keyboard - here is another feature i like and am hoping the JVC has this. does it?
# component output - always good to have this

- JVC has an FR mode. So in addition to 4 preset "modes" you can set the machine to record in 5-minute increments. So JVC would basically have like 50 or more presets, taking that into consideration
- 3:2 pulldown is a playback mode. JVC has it, as do most DVD players and recorders. But unlikely you'd use it unless you're using a big progressive HD display of some sort.
- comb filter is related to s-video output, they all have it, how it works
- Toshiba has black level options because they use the same recorder worldwide. JVC's units are set to the country where they're sold, this feature is not needed for recording, JVC does have it on playback (as do many other player, recorders)
- 0/7.5 IRE is the same as black level
- All players/recorders play AC3, all "DVD Forum" machines (meaning DVD-R/DVD-RW) use AC3, JVC does AC3 recordings, even PCM too on XP mode
- on screen keyboard, of course, JVC has this, it's what you use to enter info on the menus
- component out, not really needed in my opinion unless you have some mega theatre thing going on, I still suggest s-video, this is more of a player features, not a recorder one, get a fancy player if you want this

JVC
# VCR Plus+ On-Screen Programming - dont know what this is, can someone explain it?
# 30 disc Resume Function - dont know what it is?
# Variable Slow (Forward & Reverse) - dont know what it is?

- VCR+ is timer recordings, JVC has this, as do most VCRs built in the past 10+years, so will most DVD recorders
- resume function, probably refers to how you can stop a disc, take it out, and then put it back in later and resume at the exact moment you hit stop last time.
- FF and REV, means it goes REW and FF at several speeds (2x, 4x, 6x, 20x, etc, though it never actually gives you a speed), press arrows more or less to make it speed up

TOSHIBA
1) Auto Title/Chapter/Thumbnail Creation
2)ColorStream Pro® Progressive Scan Component Video Outputs

JVC
1) DVD Navigation with Animated Thumbnail and Audio (only in vr mode)
2) Motion Adaptive Progressive Scan Output (for video source)

Same Spec 1) once again, the toshiba is in my favor because it has title chapter and tumbnail creation and the JVC only says thumbnail and audio(whatever that is?)
Same Spec 2) dont know what has better progressive scan. Can anyone tell me?

- auto title is overrated, you'll always go back and edit it, may as well just write is from scratch and get it over with
- colorstream is just a fancy name Toshiba uses for their black level filters and component output (it's on my 2002 Toshiba DVD player too). Toshiba does make a nice NTSC player. And JVC plays PAL extremely well, hard feature to find in USA (at least one that works nice)
- dont use VR mode for any reason, use VIDEO mode, navigation only works on recorder
- yea yeah, progressive scan, blah blah ... that's like giving "tires" as the feature on a car.

The only thing im not going to b able to figure out until i get it or untill someone can tell me is (what recorder produces a better dvd) and (what recorder is going to let me copy cable channels - specifically 5c protectd NFL channel on comcast with a motorola dct6214 dvr)

And here is your achille's heel. Toshiba has a very volatile nature, as it concerns Comcast PVRs and fake copy protection. The JVC provide a cleaner image than Toshiba, though the Toshiba is no slacker in the image quality arena.

And you know, a lot of this stuff is really basic. Have you never used a VCR? It's no different for many of these "features" that seem to confuse you..

[lordsmurf]

Do you have an amount you want to spend ?
The Toshiba(mostly refurbs & open box) can be purchased for like half the cost of the JVC.

Where are you shopping?
The Toshiba DR-4 runs about $120-200.
The JVC DR-M100S runs about $150-200 too.

I'd grab an extra Toshiba DR-4 if I could find one for $75 in working condition.

[mikej3131]

JVC has an FR mode.

What is FR Mode? also, i take it the JVC has preset bit rates too?????

JVC's units are set to the country where they're sold, this feature is not needed for recording, JVC does have it on playback

So if i live in the usa and i get this JVC unit, then i wont have to worry about "setting the ire", like the sticky thread in this forum about setting ire's??

auto title is overrated, you'll always go back and edit it, may as well just write is from scratch and get it over with

what is auto title? title means creating a menu right? and what do you mean creating a title from scratch?
For this type of stuff, all i wanna be able to do is create a menu and make chapter points.
What are thumbnail creations?
and you can only go back and edit something on the disc if it is RW, right?

And JVC plays PAL extremely well, hard feature to find in USA (at least one that works nice)

itdoesnt work nice in the USA .So if im understanding this correctly, this specific JVC sucks in the USA(i live in the USA :/ .) did you mean its bad in the USA for (recording and playing back) or just for (playing back)?

dont use VR mode for any reason, use VIDEO mode, navigation only works on recorder

why should i not use VR mode? and what did you mean "navigation only works on recorder".
What does navigation do?

Toshiba has a very volatile nature, as it concerns Comcast PVRs and fake copy protection.

when you said it "concerns", did you mean it doesnt record well with comcast pvr's? and what do you mean fake CP?
How is this JVC with comcast dvr's?


Hey thanks for takin the time out to help me decide on these two, as i am gratefull because you are one of the reasons i narrowed it down to the JVC unit, as you spoke highly of it in other threads

[MeekloBraca]

The Toshiba is much much much better,

And ive had both.

[mikej3131]

y do you say this meeklo?

[lordsmurf]

FR mode = flex mode recording, tons of presettings for recording, bitrate/res is set to modes on DVD recorders

Yes, correct, JVC is set fine, no need to play with IRE settings, none to play with

Auto title .... like it says ... automatically puts a title on the menu for you, based off information (if available) from the source, embedded in the stream.... usually this info is not there or written how you'd hate it (instead of something neat like "CSI EPISODE 23" it may write "CRIMSCENINV-E23-2LKHAS" or some crap ........ this assumes that is really the features on the Toshiba, I do not know, but that is how this feature works, when available on equipment

you missed the point. It plays PAL *ALSO* -- and the Toshiba probably does not play PAL *AT ALL*

VR mode discs will not work on DVD players, so dont make them. Make VIDEO mode discs only.

Navigation is something on the recorder, shows what you put on the disc so far, nothing more, nothing to do with a menu or anything else. it is what it is

In dummy terms, there is a problem common problem where people with Toshibas CANNOT RECORD when Comcast PVR or Comcast cable box is the video source.

[davideck]

- comb filter is related to s-video output, they all have it, how it works

Actually, the comb filter is related to the Composite Inputs, as it separates the luminance and chrominance components prior to the MPEG encoding.

I recently compared the JVC DR-M100S with units from LiteOn, Panasonic, and Toshiba. The Toshiba was a HDD unit. IMO, the Toshiba was superior to the others overall. I also found the added features and flexibility that came along with the HDD to be worth every penny.

The Toshiba had the best timebase correction capability. The JVC and LiteOn had the worst.

Of all four units, the JVC was the only one that had false MV detection failures with any of my tapes. I have since transferred many old VHS and Beta tapes with the Toshiba using multiple VCRs without any such failures.

[SingSing]

I hope you don't own/plan to own miniDV camcorder. They both DON'T do firewire !

[mikej3131]

Auto title .... like it says ... automatically puts a title on the menu for you, based off information (if available) from the source, embedded in the stream.... usually this info is not there or written how you'd hate it (instead of something neat like "CSI EPISODE 23" it may write "CRIMSCENINV-E23-2LKHAS" or some crap ........ this assumes that is really the features on the Toshiba, I do not know, but that is how this feature works, when available on equipment

can anybody with the toshiba confirm how this works? and if this is how it works, does that mean you cant delete the auto title and create your own?

And JVC plays PAL extremely well, hard feature to find in USA (at least one that works nice)

I must have misunderstood you. So did you mean the hard feature to find in the usa is a Player that plays pal well because most recorders do not play pal well? and this had nothing to do wih the JVC being a bad player for ntsc?

The Toshiba had the best timebase correction capability. The JVC and LiteOn had the worst.

In dummy terms, there is a problem common problem where people with Toshibas CANNOT RECORD when Comcast PVR or Comcast cable box is the video source.

Of all four units, the JVC was the only one that had false MV detection failures with any of my tapes. I have since transferred many old VHS and Beta tapes with the Toshiba using multiple VCRs without any such failures.

Ok correct me if im wrong, but 99% of the time, TBC is for VHS sources, and if im not going to be using VHS sources(only comcast pvr sources), then the JVC would be in my favor.
And since lordsmurf said the Toshiba has problems with "comcast pvr's" and daviddeck said the JVC had problems with "tapes", thats another point for JVC going my way.
And what is MV protection????

[davideck]

And what is MV protection????

MV = Macrovision => copy protection.

[mikej3131]

And that doesnt apply to cable tv does it. MV is only in VHS right?

[JAB285]

I hope you don't own/plan to own miniDV camcorder. They both DON'T do firewire !

I do believe that the M100s does use firewire. There is an input on the front.

[davideck]

And that doesnt apply to cable tv does it. MV is only in VHS right?

The issue is whether or not a DVD Recorder will refuse to record because it incorrectly determines that a source is copy protected. The JVC would not record some of my tapes that were not copy protected. LS is stating that the Toshiba has issues with other sources.

[mikej3131]

Well I tried the Sony RDR-GX315, but was unable to record anything either live or previously recorded on my DVR because of the wonderful CGMS-A protection, this over the S-Video and composite connections.

Comcast said it was a Sony problem, Sony said it was a Comcast problem. Took the recorder back to Circuit City, not my problem anymore.

Most of the newer DVD recorders are supposed to check for the analog flag (CGMS-A) as well before recording. The Sony was nicer in that it would record about 10 seconds of program, then stop and tell you it couldn't continue to 'record copy protected content' so had I been using DVD-R's I would have several coasters.

Oh no, i hope this doesnt apply to the JVC drm100s, cuz i thinmk im getting it

[vhelp]

Evening everyone.

mikej3131,

The best suggestion I could give you is to view results that others
here may have produced. But, hopefully, (if you find any) they did
not use any Pro Amps or Detialors for those demos.
That would surely skew opinions.

( At the bottom on this post, I note some reference links. In one of them,
there is just this scenario, where a user is using one of these devices.
Please make note of that. In that thread, I commented on that point -- that
it is not a good idea to confuse others with these devices when comparing
Unit A vs. Unit B etc.. (in so many words) )

But, if you can find any (via search) have a look at the them and
see what you can do with your last minute decisions.

BTW, the 2-line Comb filter on the Tashiba is probably what is giving
it some good points. Despite my VCR's 1987 age, my Sharp VC 7843U
has a 2-line Comb filter, and it definately helps with the VHS sources.

( I know you said that you would have not use for it, but I know you (like the
rest of them) you'll be drawn into it sooner or later, "..oh, my mother-in-law
has this tape, and .." or something else convincing, hehe. Still. I"m not saying
to get the Tashiba or the JVC in this case. )

This is only my "subjective" opinion..

I have seen demos of these two, (thanks to some of the willing members
here) and I stand by my opinions.. the JVC DMR-M10 / DMR-M100 (in a recent
test) was the one that I settled on "best picture" awards.. bar none.
(sorry, the model numbering that members here are using, are confusing me)


A special note on VHS sources as used for demo purposes ...

There is a reason why users will use VHS to demonstrate the PROS and CONS
of a given unit. That is because of the degree of difficulty in reproducing
this source type. When the source is clean, like most Analog Cable and Digital
or OTA or DVD, Laserdisc sources, ..it would be too difficult to analize vs.
a noisey source like VHS. And this source helps bring out clues or areas to
use in comparing, say, DVD Recorder units ? for instance

Now you know why VHS is often used in such situations.


REFERENCES:
** [1] Buying a DVD Recorder
** [2] Pioneer DVR-531H-S tests
** [3] Toshiba DR5...At First Glance

-vhelp 3888

[lordsmurf]

I hope you don't own/plan to own miniDV camcorder. They both DON'T do firewire !

Wrong.

In fact, the JVC can even accept timeline information from editors (I know it works on Vegas Video, not sure about Premiere). It's more advanced than your average DV in/out.

[mikej3131]

what accepting timeline info?

[MozartMan]

what accepting timeline info?

JVC dvd recorder (in my case M10S) can record video and audio directly from Vegas NLE (Non Linear Editor) via FireWire.
I've done it. It works great.

[lordsmurf]

what accepting timeline info?

Computer stuff.

[mikej3131]

are you talking about making dvd recordings from your cxamera through firewire? or through a dvr?

[MozartMan]

I can make dvd recordings on my JVC via FireWire from my Sony HDV camcorder (in DV mode) and from my PC using Vegas video editor.

I use PC and CapDVHS program to record HD (Hi-Difinition) video from Comcast DVR via FireWire.

DVD recorders cannot reord video from DVRs via FireWire, only composite or S-video.

[mikej3131]

I use PC and CapDVHS program to record HD (Hi-Difinition) video from Comcast DVR via FireWire.

Yeah i have used capdvhs but cannot record 5c copy protected material from my comcast dvr, have you tried to record 5c shows?

DVD recorders cannot reord video from DVRs via FireWire, only composite or S-video.

Ok your in the same boat as me(i am getting a jvc drm100s and already have a comcast dvr). Can i ask you a couple questions :
1)what comkcast dvr do you have? i have the comcast motorola dct6412 model.
2)what JVC dvd recorder do you have?
3)can you record paid channels from your comcast to your dvdrecorder with s-video? and if so what channels?
4)did you ever record off of NFL channel?

[MozartMan]

I use PC and CapDVHS program to record HD (Hi-Difinition) video from Comcast DVR via FireWire.

Yeah i have used capdvhs but cannot record 5c copy protected material from my comcast dvr, have you tried to record 5c shows?

I can record HD video to my PC from HBO-HD, Starz-HD and Showtime-HD, so, I guess, I don't have 5c copy protection enabled in my area.

[MozartMan]

DVD recorders cannot reord video from DVRs via FireWire, only composite or S-video.

Ok your in the same boat as me(i am getting a jvc drm100s and already have a comcast dvr). Can i ask you a couple questions :
1)what comkcast dvr do you have? i have the comcast motorola dct6412 model.
2)what JVC dvd recorder do you have?
3)can you record paid channels from your comcast to your dvdrecorder with s-video? and if so what channels?
4)did you ever record off of NFL channel?

1) I have Motorola DCT-3412 DVR.
2) I have M10S
3) Yes, I think I tried that once from HBO and was able to record with s-video. But the problem is that my M10S records widescreen HD movies in letterboxed widescreen and video comes up with black bars on all four sides of the frame (no problem with 4x3 content).
4) No.

[mikej3131]

someone said you can fix the letterbox problem by setting the motorola box to act like its outputting video for a 16:9 tv. its in the menu options.

Motorola dct3412? is that newer than the dct6412? does which box you have, have anything to do with being able to record?


The m10s is a newer version of the m100s, isnt it? because i know that it is more expensive than the m100s

[MozartMan]

someone said you can fix the letterbox problem by setting the motorola box to act like its outputting video for a 16:9 tv. its in the menu options.

Motorola dct3412? is that newer than the dct6412? does which box you have, have anything to do with being able to record?

The m10s is a newer version of the m100s, isnt it? because i know that it is more expensive than the m100s

That's what I have in the motorola box settings: 16:9 TV.
It's JVC fault recording widescreen letterboxed.
Or, may be motorola sending letterboxed signal to s-video output from widescreen HD movies.
When I record video from my Sony HC1, JVC records full widescreen video.

I am not sure which one is newer 3412 or 6412, but I know that 3412 is digital only, no analog channels.

No, M100S is newer.

[mikej3131]

here look at this. This guy says he did it and tells how. HE talks about how he made anamorphic widescreen on dvd's with the comcast box. its somewhere in this thread, take a look.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=663367