problem with DVD encoding method - out of sync etc

[striker9]

OK so I am getting very frustrated with this video I am trying to encode.

A while ago I made a dvd something like this
-29.97fps with pulldown (23.976 pics per sec)
-MPEG2
-720x480
-around 1300 bitrate
-audio MP2, 48khz, 128kbps

Well that wont play on my dvd player because of too low bitrate so Im doing this

I ripped all the DVD files using dvdecrypter.
Used VOB2MPG to make one large MPG.
Made d2v project file with DGIndex. Here I noticed that the audio file DGIndex gave me was about 10 seconds shorter/longer (cant remember) than the video file. Ignored it.
Made avisynth script to resize to 320x240.
Reencoded source audio (MP2, 48khz, 128kbps) to MP2, 48khz, 128kbps. Don't ask why, I wasnt thinking.
Used CCE with the resize avisynth script I made earlier to reencode the video to 29.97fps with bitrate around 1700.

When that was done I used dvd lab to author. After creating all the new dvd files I tested with MPC and powerdvd. Powerdvd studdered and audio was getting off sync around the middle of the movie. MPC didnt studder but audio was getting off sync around middle.

I need some expert advice now that i've just wasted about 6 hours. PLEASE HELP!

[thegeeman]

What are you trying to achieve? Are you simply trying to redo your project so that this time it plays on your DVD player? Do you still have your original source file?

[Shadowmistress]

Well that wont play on my dvd player because of too low bitrate so Im doing this

Are you sure the low biterate was at fault? It would look like crap but your dvd player should still play it.

Made d2v project file with DGIndex. Here I noticed that the audio file DGIndex gave me was about 10 seconds shorter/longer (cant remember) than the video file. Ignored it.

That's your problem right there. You can't ignore that. Without going into why (it has something to do with different software muxing at slightly different rates and whatnot) try reencoding just the audio from the original mpeg you ripped (before demuxing) using something like ffmpeggui. Then check if the duration time is the same as the video. The video encode should be fine and you probably won't need to reencode that. <me, crosses fingers>

Oh, and by the way, turn strict dvd compliancy restrictions back ON in dvdlab.

[guns1inger]

What is the total runtime that your bitrate is so low, and why can't you split it across two disks ?

[jimmalenko]

-29.97fps with pulldown (23.976 pics per sec)

Whilst I'm no NTSC expert, shouldn't it be 23.976fps with pulldown, such that the player plays it at 29.976 fps ?

-audio MP2, 48khz, 128kbps

A lot of DVD players originating from NTSC country have been known to struggle with solely MP2 audio, since it isn't a part of the DVD spec. Try AC3 instead.

Made avisynth script to resize to 320x240.

That's not a valid resolution. You need to use 352 x 240, 352 x 480, or 720 x 480 for NTSC DVD.

[offline]

Please use a subject heading that describes the problem better.

[manono]

I ripped all the DVD files using dvdecrypter.
Used VOB2MPG to make one large MPG.
Made d2v project file with DGIndex. Here I noticed that the audio file DGIndex gave me was about 10 seconds shorter/longer (cant remember) than the video file. Ignored it.

It wasn't too bright joining them in Vob2MPEG, since you can load all the Vobs directly into DGIndex. Doing that probably accounts for the audio asynch.

Some of your other steps are pretty screwy also. Are you purposely trying to make this DVD look as bad as possible?

[striker9]

What are you trying to achieve? Are you simply trying to redo your project so that this time it plays on your DVD player? Do you still have your original source file?

Yes I am trying to redo the DVD to have it play properly on my player. I dont have the source movie anymore.

Are you sure the low biterate was at fault? It would look like crap but your dvd player should still play it.

Yes I'm sure because I used bitrate viewer to view other dvds I made and they all have a bitrate of about 1600, this one is 1300 because the others I changed the resolution to 352x240 and I made this one 720x480 so I had to reduce the bitrate to allow for the bigger picture.

That's not a valid resolution. You need to use 352 x 240, 352 x 480, or 720 x 480 for NTSC DVD.

Sorry I didn't mean to type 320x240. I used 352x240.

It wasn't too bright joining them in Vob2MPEG, since you can load all the Vobs directly into DGIndex. Doing that probably accounts for the audio asynch.

Some of your other steps are pretty screwy also. Are you purposely trying to make this DVD look as bad as possible?

I will try that and no I am not trying to make it look bad . Just trying to fit about 13 episodes of a 24 minute cartoon on one dvd.

[manono]

More than 5 hours on the DVD. OK. Glad I don't have to watch it.

You don't ever use Ignore Pulldown Flags if you're in NTSC land. That's also a recipe for asynch audio. Run the Preview. If Video Type is Film Progressive, then you use Forced Film, encode for Progressive 23.976fps and run Pulldown afterwards. If Video Type is NTSC Interlaced, then you use Honor Pulldown Flags and either IVTC and encode at 23.976fps Progressive, or if it's really Interlaced, you encode for 29.97fps Interlaced. This assumes the original encoder knew what he was doing, sometimes a big assumption.

Oh, after typing all that I now see you removed that last question. Guess you figured it out.

[striker9]

I didn't remove it because I figured it out, I was just gonna try them all. Now I don't have to, thanks.

[striker9]

DGIndex reported my video as Film Progressive, I used "Forced film".
I wanted to test it before encoding so I put this in a avisynth script:
v=Mpeg2Source("my_video.d2v")
a=MPASource("my_video_extracted_by_dgindex.mpa")
audiodub(v,a)

I played that in MPC and I get the same problem as before. Audio gradually gets off sync around the middle of the video.

[manono]

So much for that theory. I apologize then for thinking that Vob2MPEG caused the audio asynch. The original DVD plays all the episodes in synch? And you have 13 episodes on the DVD? Do they all have their own PGC? If so, then there must be audio delays involved. Try opening them up one by one in PGCDemux and checking for the delay. Open the IFO for the episodes. You might have 13 different IFOs, but more likely you'll have all 13 episodes in the same IFO. Make sure you're in PGC Mode. Check the Dropdown box to see if the 13 PGCs are listed. Highlight each in turn and "Check A/V Delay". You may wind up demuxing them all separately, reencoding them separately, and then applying the delay for each when reauthoring.

Another thing to try is to demux one of them after the asynch becomes obvious (somewhere in the middle, I guess) and check the relative lengths of the audio and video. To get an accurate video length, make the D2V and the .avs and open it in VDubMod. I use HeadAC3he to get an accurate audio length. Even if there's no start delay, there's a chance that the audio ends before the video. If the audio is shorter than the video for one or more of these episodes, demuxing the whole DVD at once can also cause the symptoms you're describing.

[striker9]

I tried following your instructions as closely as possible. Here is what I did
Opened the IFO in PgcDemux. Clicked dropdown box to second-to-last episode. Checked "Demux video stream". I let that process then I got the video and audio streams, muxed them with TMPGenc Mpeg tools. And holy crap it is not off sync. The weird thing is though that none of the chapters had any audio delay so I have no idea what was causing it. I will do as you suggested and encode all the episodes separately.

THANK YOU manono, and everyone

[manono]

Hi-

I'm glad you're on the right track now. I was feeling guilty about my wrong guess as to what was causing the out of synch audio. And you went a step farther on your own by doing something I should have thought of but didn't; remuxing one of the episodes to find it was OK. So, I think you've proven that the out of synch audio when creating one big file was caused by the audio ending for each (or some) episode before the video did.

However, it still might not solve your original problem about the DVD not playing in your standalone. I think shadowmistress may have been on the right track earlier (hi shadowmistress!), when she suggested you may be able to keep the same M2Vs and just reencode the audio. The thing is, I don't know enough to recommend with confidence that you reencode it to AC3. It could be that your player doesn't support MP2 audio. It's pretty uncommon for NTSC DVDs. I might suggest you go and try the original out in some friends' players. If some of them can play it, I think you can then conclude that your player doesn't like MP2 audio, in which case either AC3 or LPCM will be better.

[striker9]

Wellllll after all that. It still stutters on my dvd player. Let me give you an overview of what I'm looking at here.

Previous DVD that works:
~1600 bitrate, encoded with tmpgenc, audio: mp2, 48khz, 64kbps, authored with DVDAuthor, burned with blindwrite

My DVDs that doesn't want to work, stutters on playback in dvd player but plays fine on other player:
~1500 bitrate, encoded with cce, audio: mp2, 48khz, 128kbps, authored with DVDlab pro, burned with DVDlab pro
~1750 bitrate, encoded with cce, audio: mp2, 48khz, 128kbps, authored with DVDlab pro, burned with DVDlab pro

Anymore help is appreciated.

[guns1inger]

I would not burn with DVD Lab Pro.

That it stutters only in one player, but works in another suggests possible media incompatability or quality issues. I would test play in more players, then test a different brand of media in the player that currently fails.

[manono]

Oh, so your player does support MP2 audio. But it stutters. That opens up a whole new can of worms. It could be, as guns1inger suggests, media incompatibility, or perhaps authoring or burning problems.

You said it worked fine when using DVDAuthor before. With the same brand of media as you're using now? If so, then maybe DVDLab Pro is at fault in either the authoring or the burning. If not, then either use the same brand of media that worked for you before, or another and better brand than what you're using now. And as guns1inger said, don't use DVDLab Pro for burning. I use ImgTool Classic, although you seemed to have had luck with BlindWrite before.

If that doesn't work out, then I would suggest authoring differently, perhaps with MuxMan, and after demuxing and reauthoring all the episodes individually, fit them back into the original DVD using the Replace button in VobBlanker. Before burning it's always a good idea to do a "GetVTS Sectors" using IFOEdit. Then burn differently.

[striker9]

I just discovered that if I play through a part that stutters, then I rewind to watch through it again, it doesn't stutter. That leads me to believe that something is wrong with the dvd player and not the creation of the DVD.

So now I know that it only stutters on scenes with a lot of movement or lots of sound action but only the first time through. Maybe someone knows the technical stuff about DVD players and can tell me what may be the problem?

[Shadowmistress]

Here's a thought. Could it be it's not reading 23 fps and translating them to 29 fps fast enough? Maybe if you tried encoding to true 29.97 it might not choke? (Just a suggestion.)

[manono]

Hi-

If all your burned DVDRs stutter in the same way (including the ones that worked before), then I might agree with you that the player is at fault. If some still work fine and only some stutter, then I'm not so sure. I don't know anything at all about the "technical stuff about DVD players", but there are cleaner discs available that clean the lasers. Might be worth a shot if you're convinced it's the player at fault.

[striker9]

The first DVD I made that stutters is burned on RITEK media. I burned the same DVD files onto Taiyo Yuden media with same result.

@Shadowmistress
I think that won't be the problem because the stutter isn't throughout the entire movie. Only in scenes with lots of movement/sound.