PAL Xvid to NTSC SVCD problems

[Sane`]

Hello. I'm having a problem converting a PAL Xvid to NTSC SVCD. Here are my usual steps:

1)Convert video only to NTSC SVCD with TMPGENC "Do not frame rate convert" selected (SVCD NTSCFilm template selected)
2)Rip audio as a WAV with Vdub.
3)Convert 25 fps WAV to 23.976 MP2 with BeSweet.
4)Multiplex

This has always worked for me in the past. Problem is I can't get past the first step. After TMPGEnc finishes converting, I play the MPG it made, and it is laggy, choppy. Like, the frames lag when it plays. It's kind of like everything is so slow. Any ideas? I have "DirectShow Multimedia File Reader" priority set to highest.

PLEASE HELP!!!

[yoda313]

Maybe try virtualdub and run the error check??? Go to VIDEO - Error Mode and load the original xvid. Maybe its faulty??

[Sane`]

Nope I did that and no errors. I also know it isn't an error because the same thing happens to any xvid/divx I convert.

[Abond]

I would suggest to use DGPulldown for this conversion.

[Sane`]

I read about the DGPullDown method somewhere on this forum, and people were saying that it's not the right way to do it because you're not encoding the video. They said DGPullDown just tells the DVD player to slow down the fps, the video does not actually convert to NTSC format....

That's why I did not use that method...

[Abond]

I read about the DGPullDown method somewhere on this forum, and people were saying that it's not the right way to do it because you're not encoding the video. They said DGPullDown just tells the DVD player to slow down the fps, the video does not actually convert to NTSC format....

That's why I did not use that method...

I think this is wrong.
Here is a short guide:
http://www.johnisme.com/avi1.shtml

[manono]

They said DGPullDown just tells the DVD player to slow down the fps, the video does not actually convert to NTSC format....

Either they said it wrong or you read it wrong. It doesn't slow the framerate. The video and audio length stay the same. You don't have to slow down the audio at all. And since DGPulldown doesn't do any encoding (you do that in TMPGEnc or CCE or whatever), then you're correct that it doesn't convert to NTSC format. You'll do that in the encoding stage by resizing to 480x480 NTSC SVCD resolution.

[fritzi93]

The DGPulldown method works well. Look here:
http://www.johnisme.com/avi1.shtml

I've come to the conclusion that if you want to do a "real" conversion, this method is reliable:
http://www.johnisme.com/

I've been playing with DGPulldown lately on some old TV episodes, using CCE. I'm testing some at Half D1. Here's a script for a PAL AVI, generated by FitCD:

AVISource("D:\Video\tv_episode.avi")
BicubicResize(352,480,0,0.6,0,1,640,478)
#Trim(0,77200).Fadeout(150)
ConvertToYUY2() #For VirtualDub or CCE

If using TMPGEnc, the last line would be:
ConvertToRGB24() #For TMPGEnc or VFAPI

Seems to work correctly, someone's sure to point out my mistakes, if any.
Not sure, does anyone know if QuEnc, for instance, will accept YV12?

Anyway. For CCE, it's necessary to make sure that "DVD Video Compliant" is UNchecked. (Encode Setting -> Video). Otherwise, CCE will see the framerate and change back your resolution to match. Then run the .mpv elementary stream through DGPulldown, the output will be an .m2v file. In the above instance, it was: 25 -> 29.97. I use ffmpegGUI to do the audio. Author and burn. Real neat, no headache method.

Now I need to learn the hows and whys of the various AviSynth filters. But I'm somewhat at a loss.


[EDIT] Abond beat me to the first link. :P

[Faithful Follower]

Do not encode the audio with Tmpgenc. Either select the output into elementry streams or just encode the video only. You can then just run the original audio through Besweet with the PAL to NTSC preset applied.

[manono]

You can then just run the original audio through Besweet with the PAL to NTSC preset applied.

Unless you're planning on using DGPulldown 25->29.97 for the job. That's one of its main benefits, that no audio stretching is necessary. You might have to convert from MP3 to AC3, but you don't have to adjust the length.

But yes, if you plan to slow the video from 25fps to 23.976fps, and run a regular 23.976->29.97 Pulldown afterwards, then you're correct that using the BeSweet PAL2NTSC preset is a good way to do it.

[Sane`]

Here is the topic where I read about DGPullDown being bad:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=166237

Quote from adam:

When you repatch a flag in the stream using pulldown.exe, nothing about the stream itself is changed. The flag simply instructs the decoder to play it back a certain way. So in your example, the fps remains 25 but the dvd player is instructed to slow it down to 23.976fps during playback, and then it is further instructed to telecine it to 29.97fps. I don't know if ANY dvd players can do this.

When you re-encode something in a different framerate you are physically changing the stream. The stream now becomes 23.976fps and the 3:2 pulldown flags instruct the player to telecine it to 29.97fps as it plays. This is how NTSCfilm DVDs are supposed to be encoded.

Like I said, simply repatching the stream will result in a DVD which probably will not play correclty on ANY hardware dvd player.
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That's why I didn't use the dgpulldown method

If you guys say it works 100%, then I will!

[manono]

Your link has nothing to do with DGPulldown. I can't find any post in it past 2004, and the first betas of DGPulldown weren't released until Feb 2005.

Adam's comments have nothing to do with DGPulldown, but with Pulldown.exe, 2 entirely different apps.

That whole thread is about converting from PAL to NTSC by slowing the framerate from 25fps to 23.976fps, and then running Pulldown.exe to set the flags so that 29.97fps is output by the player. That's a perfectly valid way to do it, and requires that the audio also be slowed down.

When reencoding if you plan to use DGPulldown, you keep the original 25fps framerate, you keep the original audio (although I guess you'll have to convert it to MP2 for SVCD, but without slowing it down), resize for NTSC resolution, and then run DGPulldown 25->29.97fps.

[Sane`]

Thanks for the clarification manono. So you're basically saying either method works 100%.

I'm trying to find the best method so that I won't have ANY problems when I try to play the file on my DVD player....

Thanks again

[manono]

Hi-

So you're basically saying either method works 100%.

Hehe, yes it should, if you set it up right. I don't use TMPGEnc, so I can't help you there. But that link posted a couple of times earlier should walk you through it OK. Using an AviSynth script file feeding into CCE makes the job a piece of cake.

There is sometimes one advantage to slowing the audio and video, and that's if the audio/video have the PAL speedup. In that case, you might prefer to slow both back to their original 23.976fps, especially to get rid of the slightly higher pitched audio. As for which is easier, I might lean to the DGPulldown method, but it's almost a tossup.