Sony`s CD DRM technology can be defeated easily

[NICEBUD]

Dont no if anyones posted this yet?





http://www.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=136331

[ROF]

I couldn't agree with the final analysis. Further hardware DRM needs to be implemented in order to reign in control in the out of control piracy and theft of intellectual property in the new millenium. There needs to be more accounting and tracking of who's playing what and where instead of using software based lock downs.

[shelbyGT]

Oh no... here ROF goes again...

[BJ_M]

"who's playing what and where"? ? ?


agreed - this SHOULD be reported along with how many times and with whom you have sex, as well as the time and place and quality of your dumps (including in depth analysis of patterns) .. this information may be disseminated along with where we can reach your children 24 hours a day.....

(unfortunantly - probably all going to be true)

[BJ_M]

oh - in case the information (reported before) goes away ...

What makes the Sony BMG incident even more unfortunate is that the DRM technology can be defeated easily. Gartner has identified one simple technique: The user simply applies a fingernail-sized piece of opaque tape to the outer edge of the disc, rendering session 2 — which contains the self-loading DRM software — unreadable. The PC then treats the CD as an ordinary single-session music CD, and the commonly used CD "rip" programs continue to work as usual. (Note: Gartner does not recommend or endorse this technique.) Moreover, even without the tape, common CD-copying programs readily duplicate the copy-protected disc in its entirety.



For these reasons, Sony BMG's DRM technology will prevent neither informed casual copiers nor high-volume "pirates" from doing whatever they like with the content the disc. It does, however, load "stealth" software — software that has been demonstrated to have suspect effects — on uninformed users' machines. The bottom line: Sony BMG has created serious public-relations and legal issues for itself, and for no good reason.

[ROF]

First it's a marker which stops the DRM process, now a piece of tape. When will they learn that hardware protections are the only way to stop people from making copies and/or sharing their licensed to listen IP?

[BJ_M]

and the death penalty works to prevent crime ...

[dphirschler]

I don't want to be stopped from making copies, ROF. I want to rip my CDs at will and put the mp3 files on my mp3 player as awell as on mp3 CDs that I can play in the car. Screw DRM!

And I don't want Sony, or anybody else to know what I play and where. That is nobody's business but my own.

What the hell is wrong with you? You actually want more restrictions?


Darryl

[MJPollard]

Don't be angry with ROF. Anyone who thinks like he does, that governments and corporations should have more and more control over what we think, do, and say, is someone to be pitied, not cursed.

[mbellot]

and the death penalty works to prevent crime ...

It does with respect to each and every criminal its been applied to in the past.


Whether or not its a deterrent to other criminals is a different argument.

No need to worry anyway. As soon as you get the government mandated thought monitor (with explosive charge included at no extra cost to you the consumer) DRM will become a non-issue - right ROF?

Don't think it will happen? Well then I hope you haven't bought any color printers in the last decade or so...

http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2005_10.php

[BobK]

Don't be angry with ROF. Anyone who thinks like he does, that governments and corporations should have more and more control over what we think, do, and say, is someone to be pitied, not cursed.

Yes. ROF probably never read the novel '1984' because he doesn't want to spoil the surprises when he gets to live it.

But no doubt he would have been happy in 1938 Germany.

[MozartMan]

But no doubt he would have been happy in 1938 Germany.

Or 1937 USSR.

[ROF]

I don't want to be stopped from making copies, ROF. I want to rip my CDs at will and put the mp3 files on my mp3 player as awell as on mp3 CDs that I can play in the car. Screw DRM!

And I don't want Sony, or anybody else to know what I play and where. That is nobody's business but my own.

You actually want more restrictions?

Do I want them? NO. Do we need them? YES.

There is a large majority of consumers who feel it's their right to do whatever they want with the contents of the media they purchased. They fail to read the fine print or the laws which prohibit some of their actions as it relates to copying and sharing their media contents. It's this failure which is hurting the industry. Just look at the threads here and elsewhere which discuss reverse engineering perfectly legal and non-intrusive copy protection systems such as Sony ARccOS system. If these individuals only understood the effect their actions have had they'd understand why Sony and others continue to try different and sometimes intrusive copy protection methods. This is why hardware based protections must be implemented. In order to break those barriers you must purchase and install modifying ICs in order to defeat the copy protection method. Hopefully the hardware will be able to detect such methods of reverse engineering and shut down the device permanently thus disabling the hackers once and for all.

It's not that I want this, but certain consumers have forced this into action because of their violations no matter how small of intellectual property rights.

[GullyFoyle]

I don't want to be stopped from making copies, ROF. I want to rip my CDs at will and put the mp3 files on my mp3 player as awell as on mp3 CDs that I can play in the car. Screw DRM!

And I don't want Sony, or anybody else to know what I play and where. That is nobody's business but my own.

You actually want more restrictions?

Do I want them? NO. Do we need them? YES.

There is a large majority of consumers who feel it's their right to do whatever they want with the contents of the media they purchased. They fail to read the fine print or the laws which prohibit some of their actions as it relates to copying and sharing their media contents. It's this failure which is hurting the industry. Just look at the threads here and elsewhere which discuss reverse engineering perfectly legal and non-intrusive copy protection systems such as Sony ARccOS system. If these individuals only understood the effect their actions have had they'd understand why Sony and others continue to try different and sometimes intrusive copy protection methods. This is why hardware based protections must be implemented. In order to break those barriers you must purchase and install modifying ICs in order to defeat the copy protection method. Hopefully the hardware will be able to detect such methods of reverse engineering and shut down the device permanently thus disabling the hackers once and for all.

It's not that I want this, but certain consumers have forced this into action because of their violations no matter how small of intellectual property rights.

When the RIAA cuts you a check is it for writing this material or just copying their talking points?
That " Large majority" line alone is worth a raise.
And the "certain consumers forced into action" brings to mind Charles Bronson tracking down filesharers to bring them to justice with his hogleg .44.

Ames Jainchill: You're probably one of them knee-jerk liberals that thinks us gun boys would shoot our guns because it's an extension of our penises.
Paul Kersey: Never thought about it that way. It could be true.
Ames Jainchill: Well, maybe it is. But this is gun country.

[Sam complains the crime situation in the city]
Sam Kreutzer: You know, decent people are going to have to work here and live somewhere else.
Paul Kersey: By "decent people," you mean people who can afford to live somewhere else.
Sam Kreutzer: Oh Christ, you are such a bleeding-heart liberal, Paul.
Paul Kersey: My heart bleeds a little for the underprivileged, yes.
Sam Kreutzer: The underprivileged are beating our goddamned brains out. You know what I say? Stick them in concentration camps, that's what I say.

[BobK]

You actually want more restrictions?

Do I want them? NO. Do we need them? YES....

It's not that I want this, but certain consumers have forced this into action because of their violations no matter how small of intellectual property rights.

Right. And no matter how small the violations we'll take any steps needed to prevent them. Why not just create the movie police- we'll give them the authority to enter any building in the country to search for and seize any unauthorized copies of their IP.

Don't want them coming in your house? Never copied a movie in your life? Too bad- the only way we can be sure of that is to search your house without warning. Don't trust the government- no problem. The movie police will be under the control of the movie industry- we all know they're only concerned with protecting private citizens from the price increases caused by pirates.

Next we'll eliminate the right to vote. Can't take a chance that the people might elect a government that would try to overthrow the control of Sony and the RIAA. After all, this isn't some minor crime like murder, or rape, or kidnapping. For those we'll leave the Bill of Rights in effect. But for the really serious crimes like theft of IP we can't stand by and let the criminals use their rights and the law to protect them.

Oh- better get rid of that supreme court thing too. There may still be some judges on it that would disagree with giving police and court powers to private companies. Obviously they just don't understand how this constitutional rights thing is supposed to work.

[ROF]

Right. And no matter how small the violations we'll take any steps needed to prevent them. Why not just create the movie police- we'll give them the authority to enter any building in the country to search for and seize any unauthorized copies of their IP.

Don't want them coming in your house? Never copied a movie in your life? Too bad- the only way we can be sure of that is to search your house without warning. Don't trust the government- no problem. The movie police will be under the control of the movie industry- we all know they're only concerned with protecting private citizens from the price increases caused by pirates.

Next we'll eliminate the right to vote. Can't take a chance that the people might elect a government that would try to overthrow the control of Sony and the RIAA. After all, this isn't some minor crime like murder, or rape, or kidnapping. For those we'll leave the Bill of Rights in effect. But for the really serious crimes like theft of IP we can't stand by and let the criminals use their rights and the law to protect them.

Oh- better get rid of that supreme court thing too. There may still be some judges on it that would disagree with giving police and court powers to private companies. Obviously they just don't understand how this constitutional rights thing is supposed to work.

Paranoid much?

[BobK]

Paranoid much?

Nope. Just been in too many countries that are run by people who think like you.

[greymalkin]

the only people suffering from copy protection/drm..whatever you want to call the endless hoops of activation/registration/etc...are those who are legitimately purchasing the media. Thats the sad truth of it. You can tout the need for hardware based DRM and the people who legitimately purchased it will be frustrated when their box fails to call home and they can't watch their movie..all the while the people with hacked boxes are watching the hundreds of movies they copied without a care in the world...do you think copy protection will ever win? If it does, it will because people decide they like to pay money to be watched...hmm...sounds kinda freaky to me...

[vitualis]

We should all take pause remember why copyright laws came into existence.

They were initially designed to protect the public from large publishing guilds (i.e., corporations in the modern day) locking away intellectual property for an unlimited period of time. Copyright laws gave artists a set period of time to make money out of their IP, but after which it would be released into the public domain for the betterment of mankind. In this context, DRM is entirely contrary to the spirit of copyright law as the inevitable obsolescence of the proprietary DRM implementations results in media that is no longer accessible.

The real pirates are not your regular person making back up copies, mixing their own compilation discs, ripping MP3s for a DAP or arguably even downloading "illegal" tracks from the internet. The real pirates are those large networks that churn out millions of counterfeit goods that look like the real thing.

The DRM methods out now are all aimed at the consumer. A counterfeiter would have absolutely no difficultly in bypassing these hopelessly inadequate "copy proection" methods. As such, large corps are using "piracy" as no more than a catchcry. What DRM is about is forcing the public to pay increasingly more for the same thing (by arbitrarily limiting your choices and flexibility), exercising increasingly invasive control of how your consumer your media, and in some cases a backdoor method of monitoring/spying on your media tastes and habits.

IMHO, unless a DRM method can be made that guarantees certain consumer protections, i.e., transferability (to new system, player) as well as automated expiration (i.e., when the IP becomes public domain) then it should not be foisted onto the public.

Regards.

[RottenFoxBreath]

when ROF posts something,all i hear is charlie browns teacher....wah wah wah wahahwahwah. pmsl

[thecoalman]

As I mentioned in a previous thread DRM does have it's uses that would work for both the end user and content provider. the example I gave was if you wanted to provide high quality content for free but limit it's use for example to being played on a single machine....

Right now I'm working on just such a thing but unfortunately don't have the cash for DRM, my only alternative is to provide low quality content....

[ROF]

The real pirates are not your regular person making back up copies, mixing their own compilation discs, ripping MP3s for a DAP or arguably even downloading "illegal" tracks from the internet. The real pirates are those large networks that churn out millions of counterfeit goods that look like the real thing.

Along that same line of thinking, David Ludwig isn't a murderer he only eliminated two people who were getting in his way. He's not a real murderer otherwise he would have continued to kill millions.

[smearbrick1]

Removed

[smearbrick1]

The real pirates are not your regular person making back up copies, mixing their own compilation discs, ripping MP3s for a DAP or arguably even downloading "illegal" tracks from the internet. The real pirates are those large networks that churn out millions of counterfeit goods that look like the real thing.

Along that same line of thinking, David Ludwig isn't a murderer he only eliminated two people who were getting in his way. He's not a real murderer otherwise he would have continued to kill millions.

Dude, you can not equate murder to music piracy. That is just moronic. Stop reaching for an argument. It is completely obvious that you are seriously deluded, and possibly smoothed out on the R&B tip with just a bit of insanity.

The moment you start making something as trivial as song piracy to something as terrible as murder, you have issues. Murder is not to be trivialized. In June, my mother-in-law was murdered by her so-called boyfriend. It was awful... newspapers, subpoenas, funerals, the emotion... all of it. Online piracy can't even come close to comparing to murder.

Next time you want to make an idiotic comment about an argument over an all ready beaten to death subject, choose your words wisely. Don't just spew the first thought that comes to mind.

Oh... and by the way... Ludwig from Lititz, which is about 20 miles from here... a few days earlier, a whack job who got fired from his job decided it would be fun to bust a cap in his former employer with 7 mm rifle (he didn't just bust "a" cap, he shot him 4 separate times). He followed this nice little event by shooting a State Police Trooper and ultimately, (finally) himself.

My point? The boss who was shot... his name was Steve... he had family, my dad went to high school with him... and the parents that Ludwig shot, they had names also. They also had other children who will no longer be able see their parents again. The only memory that will stick in their minds is that awful day that their parents were brutally murdered by a stupid kid.

Meanwhile, someone downloads "Don't Cha" by The Pussycat Dolls from Limewire...

The record loses... what? $2.00?

[mbellot]

There is a large majority of consumers who feel it's their right to do whatever they want with the contents of the media they purchased. They fail to read the fine print or the laws which prohibit some of their actions as it relates to copying and sharing their media contents. It's this failure which is hurting the industry.

Wrong. The industry (or more precisely the RIAA) is killing itself by providing nothing but homogenized cr@p.

The internet scares the RIAA because it allows small labels, and even individual bands, to compete against them.

The movie industry isn't far behind, with its predictable drivel and rehashed story lines I haven't wasted money on a ticket in over five years.

[ROF]

There is a large majority of consumers who feel it's their right to do whatever they want with the contents of the media they purchased. They fail to read the fine print or the laws which prohibit some of their actions as it relates to copying and sharing their media contents. It's this failure which is hurting the industry.

Wrong. The industry (or more precisely the RIAA) is killing itself by providing nothing but homogenized cr@p.

The internet scares the RIAA because it allows small labels, and even individual bands, to compete against them.

The movie industry isn't far behind, with its predictable drivel and rehashed story lines I haven't wasted money on a ticket in over five years.

The internet does not scare the RIAA or anybody. How it's used is what frightens them. It can be used to legally purchase all forms of media however it can also be used to illegally upload and download media. That's why protection of hardcopy media is necessary. Hopefully sometime soon all these software protections will be left behind and we will finally have hardware that detects copied material and prevents it from playing, detects an unapproved stream and stops it from playing, and also hardware that prevents any and all copying of digital material. HDCP seems to be the wave of the future for video I just hope audio finds something similiar as well.

[racerxnet]

ROF:


Your still the chump on the block with all your drivel. How much are they paying you???

[dphirschler]

ROF, go tell your RIAA cronies (as if they will listen) that the more the consumer is restricted, the less he/she will buy. They've got to start delivering more value, not less.


Darryl

[ROF]

I actually wrote them earlier this year telling them the exact opposite. There needs to be more restrictions which are hardware based instead of this software stuff we've been seeing. They need to find a way of locking down their media contents so the consumer can enjoy a better experience knowing whatever they do isn't violating the law since the devices they use to play the media won't allow them. I've also told them that in order to target market their products better that some sort of "phoning home" needs to be implemented as well in order to provide the customer with optimal commercial coverage.

[BobK]

I actually wrote them earlier this year telling them the exact opposite. There needs to be more restrictions which are hardware based instead of this software stuff we've been seeing. They need to find a way of locking down their media contents so the consumer can enjoy a better experience knowing whatever they do isn't violating the law since the devices they use to play the media won't allow them. I've also told them that in order to target market their products better that some sort of "phoning home" needs to be implemented as well in order to provide the customer with optimal commercial coverage.

Which leaves me believing that you're reallly just a troll. Nobody could be that dumb and still find the alpabet on a keyboard.