Sony`s CD DRM technology can be defeated easily

[vitualis]

As before ROF.

By "locking down" media, the publishing/record/movie industry is actually breaking the spirit to copyright law. These companies only "own" the IP in a time limited fashion. However, they increasing act as if they own it ad inifinitum. This is frankly disgusting.

If not for the expirary of copyright, classical music such as that of Mozart and Beethoven would probably be no more than a footnote in history, rather than vastly appreciated as it is now. Similarly, we would probably barely know of pre-20th century literature.

Downloading and uploading music I agree is wrong, but it is "small fry" insofar as profits. Taking that out of the equation, the other activities of backing up your CD, mixing your own CD compilation or converting it into MP3 for your DAP should not be in any sense considered "piracy". However, it is exactly these activities that DRM tries to control.

As I stated before, the "real" pirates, insofar those that cost the industry millions if not billions of dollars are the large scale counterfeiters. The RIAA and others consider THIS to be too tough a target though.

Regards.

[mbellot]

I actually wrote them earlier this year telling them the exact opposite. There needs to be more restrictions which are hardware based instead of this software stuff we've been seeing. They need to find a way of locking down their media contents so the consumer can enjoy a better experience knowing whatever they do isn't violating the law since the devices they use to play the media won't allow them. I've also told them that in order to target market their products better that some sort of "phoning home" needs to be implemented as well in order to provide the customer with optimal commercial coverage.

Sounds like you have a hardware DRM system you are trying to sell.

The simple fact (as stated previously) is that consumers will avoid products which seek to curtail their options, legal or otherwise.

I went out of my way to purchase an older Series 1 Tivo so that I would have the option to use it without paying Tivo for guide information (it works as a simpe digital VCR). I have the option to subscribe or not, but I choose, not Tivo. Tivo removed that option with the newer models, you don't pay then you own an overpriced electronic brick.

Same story with my DVD player. I researched until I found one in my price range that could have Macrovision turned off. Not because I rent movies and archive them, but because I need to pass the DVD signal through my VCR to get it into my TV, and with MV turned on I can't see sh!t.

[ROF]

As I stated before, the "real" pirates, insofar those that cost the industry millions if not billions of dollars are the large scale counterfeiters. The RIAA and others consider THIS to be too tough a target though.

A tougher target maybe, but certainly not too tough. This year alone there has been several multi-state raids upon these types of vicious criminals. Hopefully they will be found guilty and have to pay excessive fines and sit in jail for quite a few years for their criminal actions against the consumer and those who provide entertainment media legally.

[BobK]

How about a non-hardware based option that ROF would really like? We simply outlaw the manufacture and sale of all blank optical media and recoding devices. Naturally there's be a special loophole in the law for big corporations so they could continue to make a profit- which would be vastly increased since they'd then have a monopoly on everything recorded digitally.

Remember, if blank CDs were outlawed, only outlaws would have blank CDs.

[mbellot]

Hopefully they will be found guilty and have to pay excessive fines and sit in jail for quite a few years for their criminal actions against the consumer

One could say exactly the same of the Sony execs.

[mbellot]

Remember, if blank CDs were outlawed, only outlaws would have blank CDs.

But blank CD's don't violate copyright laws, people do.

:P

[smearbrick1]

I actually wrote them earlier this year telling them the exact opposite. There needs to be more restrictions which are hardware based instead of this software stuff we've been seeing. They need to find a way of locking down their media contents so the consumer can enjoy a better experience knowing whatever they do isn't violating the law since the devices they use to play the media won't allow them. I've also told them that in order to target market their products better that some sort of "phoning home" needs to be implemented as well in order to provide the customer with optimal commercial coverage.

Yeah... Phoning home... that idea worked great for DIVX. What happened to them? Oh yeah, they're bankrupt!

Most people are not going to want to plug a phone line in to their dvd player just to watch a movie. I mean, look how much of problem product activation caused in Windows XP. It won't end with copy protection. Next thing will be that are forcing advertising on you, or pushing unwanted software "updates" on you to monitor your viewing habits (not limited to the purchased media, but all media inserted into the machine) while trying to watch your legally purchased digital content over your "phoning home" dvd player. Next thing you know, you got the FBI pounding on your door because you seem to like "The Siege", "JFK" or any other movie that has been flagged (remember Carnivore?).

[ROF]

Remember, if blank CDs were outlawed, only outlaws would have blank CDs.

Guns don't kill people. Stupid or insane people kill people with guns. Blank CDs don't violate copyright law. People violate copyright law and think nothing of it because they do so in their homes. That's the typical defense of an illegal digital downloader that it was made available to them why shouldn't they be able to download it. Because it's illegal stupid is the reply.

[BobK]

Remember, if blank CDs were outlawed, only outlaws would have blank CDs.

That's the typical defense of an illegal digital downloader that it was made available to them why shouldn't they be able to download it. Because it's illegal stupid is the reply.

Exactly. And if we outlaw blank CDs then people will say "why shouldn't I be able to buy blank CDs to store my data, backup my computer programs, etc. And the answer will be "because it's illegal stupid".

[ROF]

OK! You go live in the land where products are outlawed because of potential abuses criminals may use them for. However I'm going to live in the real world where technology is used to stop criminals from stealing intellectual property or infringing on copyright holders assets.

[isogonic]

ROF is a troll, dont feed him

[mbellot]

ROF is a troll, dont feed him

But its so much fun trying to give him a stomach ache.

[mbellot]

OK! You go live in the land where products are outlawed because of potential abuses criminals may use them for. However I'm going to live in the real world where technology is used to stop criminals from stealing intellectual property or infringing on copyright holders assets.

Ahh, but you do. Try to buy a hand gun, or (god forbid) an automatic rifle.

Handgun ownership has been illegal in the city of Chicago for well over two decades. Congress made sure that all manner of "assault" weapons couldn't be purchased by (otherwise) law abiding citizens.

All in the name of stopping criminal use of such devices.


And the last time I checked, the personal information contained on my computer is my intellectual property. What gives Sony the right to steal it by packing it up and phoning home?

[thecoalman]

This year alone there has been several multi-state raids upon these types of vicious criminals.

Viscious???

[Noahtuck]

This year alone there has been several multi-state raids upon these types of vicious criminals.

Viscious???

Yeah, i caught that awhile ago.... just blew if off as it was prob. a typo when the pipe burned his lip

[racerxnet]

ROF must be smoking some good $hit.

[vitualis]

As before ROF.

By "locking down" media, the publishing/record/movie industry is actually breaking the spirit to copyright law. These companies only "own" the IP in a time limited fashion. However, they increasing act as if they own it ad inifinitum. This is frankly disgusting.

If not for the expirary of copyright, classical music such as that of Mozart and Beethoven would probably be no more than a footnote in history, rather than vastly appreciated as it is now. Similarly, we would probably barely know of pre-20th century literature.

Downloading and uploading music I agree is wrong, but it is "small fry" insofar as profits. Taking that out of the equation, the other activities of backing up your CD, mixing your own CD compilation or converting it into MP3 for your DAP should not be in any sense considered "piracy". However, it is exactly these activities that DRM tries to control.

As I stated before, the "real" pirates, insofar those that cost the industry millions if not billions of dollars are the large scale counterfeiters. The RIAA and others consider THIS to be too tough a target though.

Regards.

I noticed that you completely ignored the rest of my post ROF. Figures.

As for cracking down on "professional" counterfeiting operations? I don't think so and certainly no one in the US can claim that they are really trying.

Regards.

[guns1inger]

The real pirates are those large networks that churn out millions of counterfeit goods that look like the real thing.

RIAA - making product that almost sounds like music
MPAA - making product that almost looks like movies

Thieves and liars the lot. ROF, you cry for these poor corporate entities who are bleeding profits with every breath because of the pirates. Yet all they spout are 'potential profits' to justify their vile behavior toward their legitimate customers. Potential means nothing until it is realised. Time and again it has been shown that if the product is worth the money, people will buy. But if the product is dross, as so much music and film is, then people won't pay for it. The industry says the pirates are exploiting them. I say they have been exploiting their customers for years. Perhaps turn about is fair play.

Here are some simples steps the industry could take to reduce piracy

1. Stop putting out CDs with 1 good song and 9 filler tracks

2. Never make another xXx or The Pacifier or 'Are we there yet' again.

3. Remove region coding and provide simultaneous worldwide release

4. Don't release the single disk version, then the 2 disk special edition, then the 4 disk collector's edition, then the 2 disk edition again (but this time with slipcase) 4 months apart at a higher price each time

5. Don't charge me $10 for a coke at the cinema

6. Release the DVD with the cinema release. I have kids. I don't get out much. Why do I have to wait 6 months to see something my child-free friends saw back then ?

The customer is always right - don't forget that.

[ROF]

OK! You go live in the land where products are outlawed because of potential abuses criminals may use them for. However I'm going to live in the real world where technology is used to stop criminals from stealing intellectual property or infringing on copyright holders assets.

Ahh, but you do. Try to buy a hand gun, or (god forbid) an automatic rifle.

Handgun ownership has been illegal in the city of Chicago for well over two decades. Congress made sure that all manner of "assault" weapons couldn't be purchased by (otherwise) law abiding citizens.

All in the name of stopping criminal use of such devices.


And the last time I checked, the personal information contained on my computer is my intellectual property. What gives Sony the right to steal it by packing it up and phoning home?

I don't know about Chicago but the federal statute on assault weapons (AKA Brady Bill) has been allowed to lapse. I purchased two recently and had no problems. I also own quite a few hand guns too. Given that I'd say that nobody is currently limiting me accept I can.

The personal information stored on your computer is not intellectual property unless your parents applied for copyright of your info at birth. It's private info but not intellectual property. You can choose to give up this info or not at present. Last time I checked, My Anti-Virus company has my info, Microsoft has my info, infogrames has it, EA has it, IBM has it, Dell has it, Compaq has it, heck even this site has it. If you think your information has never been released to someone else I guess I'm not speaking to you because release of personal information is required to post here.

[BobK]

If you think your information has never been released to someone else I guess I'm not speaking to you because release of personal information is required to post here.

Really? I never had to release any personal information to post here. I had to fill out some blanks on the registration form. I was free to put anything I wanted in there as long as the required blanks were filled in. I was free to lie about anything if I didn't want to give the real information.

Same for ever other company that asks for information. They only get the information I decide to give. They don't have to right to invade my computer.

[ROF]

If you think your information has never been released to someone else I guess I'm not speaking to you because release of personal information is required to post here.

Really? I never had to release any personal information to post here. I had to fill out some blanks on the registration form. I was free to put anything I wanted in there as long as the required blanks were filled in. I was free to lie about anything if I didn't want to give the real information.

Same for ever other company that asks for information. They only get the information I decide to give. They don't have to right to invade my computer.

Well then, what's to stop you from including such false info on the feedback as being discussed here? I don't have my name, address, or phone number stored in any particular location on my machine. Is sony or any other company going to magically pull this info from some place?

[BobK]

Well then, what's to stop you from including such false info on the feedback as being discussed here? I don't have my name, address, or phone number stored in any particular location on my machine. Is sony or any other company going to magically pull this info from some place?

Most people (probably even you) have information stored on your computer. Even if you don't have any of your own personal info stored there you probably have things like email addresses, names and address of people you know, etc.

And asking for information is significantly different than stealing the information from your computer. Perhaps you don't understand the difference but when it comes to stealing information, as you posted yourself, "Because it's illegal stupid".

[mbellot]

The personal information stored on your computer is not intellectual property unless your parents applied for copyright of your info at birth. It's private info but not intellectual property.

I'm not simply referring to mundane things like name, address and ssn when I refer to personal information.

I write software and design electronics hardware, all the files are kept it on my PC.

That is my intellectual property and there is nothing preventing the Sony malware from stealing anything because it is installed without the end users consent.

[ROF]

I'm not simply referring to mundane things like name, address and ssn when I refer to personal information.

I write software and design electronics hardware, all the files are kept it on my PC.

That is my intellectual property and there is nothing preventing the Sony malware from stealing anything because it is installed without the end users consent.

I must ask why you'd keep such a system with integral information connected to the network without firewall(double or triple) and anti-viral software, all of which will detect and disable rootkit installation and functionality? I also do work that requires me to prevent theft of such data and the terminal I work on is well protected and has never seen a audio CD.

[VegasBud]

...without firewall(double or triple) and anti-viral software, all of which will detect and disable rootkit installation and functionality...

Those don't have any effect on the installation or functioning of the Sony rootkit.

[Noahtuck]

...without firewall(double or triple) and anti-viral software, all of which will detect and disable rootkit installation and functionality...

Those don't have any effect on the installation or functioning of the Sony rootkit.

Yep, he better read up a little more on the "Sony Rootkit" and how it was hiding from such things, and could allow other trojans/viruses to go undetected, that's the whole problem

Last time I checked, My Anti-Virus company has my info, Microsoft has my info, infogrames has it, EA has it, IBM has it, Dell has it, Compaq has it, heck even this site has it. If you think your information has never been released to someone else I guess I'm not speaking to you because release of personal information is required to post here.

That's funny... i don't remember ever being made to give my home address, my credit card info, or my real name to post on this site in almost 5 years

[BJ_M]

Noahtuck is right -- the whole issue of the rootkit is that it is NOT detected by any OS firewall or a firewall that is software based on your machine - nor any antivirus ether -- becuase it operates at the same ring level or higher than the OS .......


Noahtuck, we already had your CC info - so didnt ask you for it again ...

[Noahtuck]

Noahtuck, we already had your CC info - so didnt ask you for it again ...

I forgot

[MOVIEGEEK]

For certain forum members that bait arguments:I wish there was an ingore button.
I agree that piracy is wrong but I'll be damned if a record company tells me I can't change formats so I can listen to the music how I see fit!
As for copy-protected CD's:hit the SHIFT key when inserting the CD or disable autorun...voila...no more copy-protection.

[vitualis]

Or, mass boycott and direct general community anger at Sony to get them to change their nefarious ways...

... and never buy another CD from Sony again, at least, not a new one. Support the second hand market.

Regards.