Why can I no longer make a copy of a backed up DVD ???

[The Shade]

Here's my situation:

I use DVD Shrink to backup a large portion of my DVD's. I have also used DVD Decrypter in conjunction with DVD Shrink on a few titles. My burning software is Nero (Using Nero Suite 6 Ultra). I regularly check for updates, and update any/all of these programs. I have an NEC 2510A burner, and also an older Lite-On burner, both with the latest firmware. All my DVD media are DVD-R, and are all Riteks --- either G04 or G05's.

For whatever reason, I can no longer make another copy using one of my backed up discs. Granted, my need to do this is very limited --- but it bothers me that I can't. I make a backup from my original, and the backup plays perfectly in my home DVD player. But, if I put that backup back into my computer, I can not copy it.

I've tried a simple disc-to-disc copy using Nero. I've tried using DVDShrink to read the disc. I've tried using DVD Decrypter to read the disc. I've tried importing the files directly from the disc into Nero. I've also have simply tried to copy the files from the disc and paste them onto my hard drive. Nothing works. Everytime I receive an error whereas my drive cannot read some of the data. I've tried it on 4 different DVD drives/burners, with the same results.

The disc still plays perfectly --- but for whatever reason I cannot make another copy of it. The most frustrating part, is that I used to be able to do this, using any of the methods mentioned above. Now, none of them work.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what is causing this, or what else I might be able to try?

Thanks in advance for any ideas/suggestions.

[budz]

the quality of the RITEK media is the problem you're having......sometimes after time passes the discs cannot be read back.....not to be rude in any way but NEC is known not to have good readers on their drives.....LITEON on the other hand is suppose to be good readers.... or the discs may have scratches or smudges which will prevent the disc from being read correctly thus you get error msgs......try using ISOBUSTER to extract the files from the disc.....lastly use better quality dvd media to backup your dvds from now on.....

[Roz]

I have exactly the same problem and for some reason it also has only started to happen recently.

In my case shrink often reports "invalid navigation structure" but not everytime.

I too would be greatful for any ideas/suggestions on The Shades post.

[maldb]

I don't have an answer to your problem - the only thing I can think of is when you ripped it, did you tell it to remove the encryption? I've made copies from my backups without a problem - using Nero or Shrink/Decrypter, so I don't know what else to tell you.

Anyone else have any ideas?

[MOVIEGEEK]

Try IsoBuster.

[The Shade]

Yes - I do remove the encryption.

Also, all my backups are done with DVD Shrink's "region free" setting.

I know that DVD media quality is an issue, but I've always heard that Ritek G04's were very good quality (and that's what about 90% of mine are -- with the rest being G05's).

However, I have to doubt it's the DVD media. If there was just one or two discs I was having problems with, then maybe. However, I've gone back and test 20 to 30 backed-up'ed discs --- and none of them can be copied now. These range for just a few days old, to over a year old. And some of them I have successfully copied before.

It's like somebody threw a switch and suddenly something happened.

And yes, I've also heard the NEC's aren't the best readers. But I've also tried a Pioneer DVD drive, and 2 Lite-On's. I also just upgraded my NEC's firmware to 2.17 (was using 2.16). Results are the same.

edit: I keep getting the "data error (cyclic redundancy check)" error message on one of the VTS files.

[budz]

keep getting the "data error (cyclic redundancy check)" error message on one of the VTS files.

Riteks were considered good media at one time.....I used them when I first began burning dvds but quickly learned from others on this site that RITEK wasn't the best to use....So I ended up buying good quality dvd media and reburned my collection of dvd movies because I didn't want to be where you're at now, meaning the discs can't be read back......sorry to say but it's the RITEK media that is the problem......I had a problematic dvd disc that couldn't be read back because of a little scratch my toshiba dvdroms, pioneer 107 dvd burner, liteon 811 & benq 1620 dvdrw could not read the disc but my plextor 708a dvdrw drive could read it perfectly without any errors.

check out lordsmurfs site on dvd media:
www.nomorecoasters.com

[FulciLives]

Try making a back-up from an original DVD disc but this time use DVDShrink to create a VIDEO_TS folder. Nohting more than that with DVDShrink.

Afterwards, use ImgTools (use the classic version only) to create an ISO IMAGE FILE and then burn that to a DVD-R with DVD Decrypter.

Make sure the disc plays back A-OK in your stand alone DVD player etc. then try and copy it and see what happens. Use DVD Decrypter to see if it will rip it in ISO READ MODE.

Chances are it will work which means the problem is your burning software and/or the original ISO IMAGE FILE creation process.

If it still does not work when you try to copy the copy ... stop using Ritek media ... we all determined some time ago now that they became worthless. They had their heyday a LONG time ago.

Use Taiyo Yuden DVD-R or the MADE IN JAPAN Maxell DVD-R discs. All other discs are a crap shoot.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[nathanaa]

I'm going to chime in with a vote that it is NOT the media that is the problem. I am having the *exact* same problem, only the source discs are good old Made in Japan Maxell.

THe first thing everyone says is "the media is bad", and while in many cases that might be true, in this one, IT AIN'T. I've got the same problem as Shade, and both of us keep getting told it is the media at fault - 99% positive it is not the media (hey, I could be wrong).

So, can we maybe look along other lines of what the problem might be? I am personally completely baffled about this, and am at the pulling-out-hair stage.

Shade, I empathize with you completely on this, as I said - the *exact* same problem.

[budz]

I'm going to chime in with a vote that it is NOT the media that is the problem. I am having the *exact* same problem, only the source discs are good old Made in Japan Maxell.

THe first thing everyone says is "the media is bad", and while in many cases that might be true, in this one, IT AIN'T. I've got the same problem as Shade, and both of us keep getting told it is the media at fault - 99% positive it is not the media (hey, I could be wrong).

So, can we maybe look along other lines of what the problem might be? I am personally completely baffled about this, and am at the pulling-out-hair stage.

Shade, I empathize with you completely on this, as I said - the *exact* same problem.

first of all before you rant about MEDIA is not the problem.......how about you clue us in the whole process of how you're backing up your dvds.....then we can see whether or not you're having issues with MEDIA or the software that you're using to backup your dvds.....don't be so quick to say that it is NOT BAD MEDIA......Shade didn't say he was using MAXELL MADE IN JAPAN MEDIA, he has said he has used RITEK G04 & G05 media......this thread is about RITEK media not MAXELL.......

[funkguy4]

cyclic redundancy always means read error = try another drive... did u try CLEANING your drive(s) and the disc(s)?

[The Shade]

Ok - I've made some progress. Here is what I've done, plus some more background information:

For about 95% (or more) of all my backups, I've used DVDShrink and Nero to burn. Nothing else. Shrink/Nero is easy --- just one stop shopping.

I put in the original DVD in my Lite-On DVD drive, and my blank Ritek G04 in my NEC 2510A drive. DVDShrink analyzes it. Then, I delete some audio streams, sub titles, etc. Maybe I play around with some of the compression settings (futher compress extras to lessen the compression on the movie itself). Then, I hit "Backup!".

From the pop-up box, I have always selected the option for "Burn with Nero" which selects my NEC drive as my destination drive. From the other options, I have the typical default settings. I do "region free", I select "deep analysis" and "Sharp" from the Quality Settings tab, I run Shrink in low priority mode (though typically when it runs I'm not using the computer). I type in a file name for the files to be stored on my hard drive. Then I hit "ok", and just wait for the finished product.

For a disc that doesn't require compression, it's done in about 20 minutes. For something lengthy with a lot of compression (like my Stargate series), it takes about 2 hours to do everything. In any case, at some point it is done -- and my backup is complete.

So, based on some earlier comments -- I decided to try something else. I still started off using DVD Shrink, but when when I hit "Backup!", I de-selected the "Burn with Nero" option, and instead, picked "ISO Image File and burn with DVD Decrypter". I was trying this with my original DVD of The Matrix.

About an hour and a half later, the completed product was done. I tried to copy the files on my newly backed up DVD, and the copied just fine. So, does this mean Nero is the problem? Or is there some other issue involved.

And by the way - I tried using IsoBuster on one of my previous backups (one that wouldn't copy) --- and it wouldn't copy it either --- too many mistakes (I finally stopped it after about 1 hour, and it was only about 40% done at that point).

[budz]

About an hour and a half later, the completed product was done. I tried to copy the files on my newly backed up DVD, and the copied just fine. So, does this mean Nero is the problem? Or is there some other issue involved.

in my opinion i don't think nero burn is the reason why your discs could not be read back .......some people don't like using Nero to burn.....i am assuming you've used the RITEK media with your latest burn using the ISO write mode.....but the discs that could not be read as you've stated in your original post were discs that were made months or a year ago? my point is only time will tell if that disc you just burned will be able to be read back months from now....thus you'll have the same situation with the discs not being able to be read again.......why risk that when you can use good quality media better than Ritek.....that's just my 2 cents........

[FulciLives]

As usuall NERO sucks.

Should still use ImgTools (classic version) to create the ISO IMAGE FILE rather than let DVDShrink do it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[The Shade]

It was your earlier post about ImgTools that caused me not to use Nero. In fact, I have already downloaded the classic version - just haven't used it yet.

What's the reasoning behind using ImgTools to create the ISO file instead of Shink?

[monkeyking]

Do these backups have labels? Have you tried running one of the disk tests in the Nero suite?

[FulciLives]

It was your earlier post about ImgTools that caused me not to use Nero. In fact, I have already downloaded the classic version - just haven't used it yet.

What's the reasoning behind using ImgTools to create the ISO file instead of Shink?

I know ImgTools (classic version) works well ... so that is what I use.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[funkguy4]

heyy....when Nero works it works fine....WHEN it works
go freeware w00t
i wonder if there's a freeware program w/ the useful capabilities of Nero...

[FulciLives]

heyy....when Nero works it works fine....WHEN it works
go freeware w00t
i wonder if there's a freeware program w/ the useful capabilities of Nero...

Well just use ImgTools (classic version) and then set it up (very easy) to auto launch DVD Decrypter and it will start burning. Can even set it to verify if you want.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[proxyx99]

You may have developed (your PC) some ASPI related problems that confuse your PC and Nero (driver conflicts of some sort).
You may consider reinstalling Nero (with cleanup first). As to media use DVDInfo or similar scan tool (Nero has one) scan few of your discs for errors and media quality to eliminate this possibility.
As to copying backups: why Shrink? Since they are in 4.7 GB format use Decrypter to make ISO image of the disk and burn the image to new one within the same application.

[FulciLives]

As to copying backups: why Shrink? Since they are in 4.7 GB format use Decrypter to make ISO image of the disk and burn the image to new one within the same application.

Well yes that is the best way to make a copy of a copy ... I was talking more about the original DVD to recordable DVD back-up step with the stuff I was talking about.

Of course even then that only applies to dual layer discs. DVD Decrypter in ISO mode is all you need for a single layer DVD disc be it an original or a copy.

- John "FuliciLives" Coleman

[MOVIEGEEK]

heyy....when Nero works it works fine....WHEN it works
go freeware w00t
i wonder if there's a freeware program w/ the useful capabilities of Nero...

www.burnatonce.com
www.cdburnerxp.se
www.deepburner.com

proxyx99 brought up a good point,use Windows search to look for WNASPI32.dll(dated 6/2003) save to disc and delete it.But first make sure you have two versions!The reason is Nero's ASPI can conflict with your system ASPI.

[Sabro]

I had the same problem when my system was updated to SP2 for XP. It would read the source and make an image, however would not write the new copy from the image.

If this is the case, I'd suggest updating your software to the newest version, or use something other then NERO (with the newest version of whatever you go with).

Sabro

[blinky88]

Hi Shade,

I started backing up my DVD collection around 12 months ago. After initial problems were soughted out by members of this site, I finished up with a simple solution and have not had a problem since.

1. Use DVD Shrink to re-author, encode and shrink the image into a single ISO file. To do this, the HDD your directing that file to 'has' to be formatted NTFS. If it happens to be Fat32 then select ISO images in 1gig blocks.

2. Use DVD Decrypter to burn that image.

I do not select 'burn with Decrypter' in Shrink. I manually start Decrypter and then select the image I want to burn.

Since adopting this method, I have not had a problem of any description. I just went to my very first backup and did a full disc backup using Shrink to encode a single ISO image and Decrypter to burn, all went well. I'm using crap media ..ie.. according to many members on this site, however, I can still play all of my backups and have now successfully burned a copy of the very first backup I did.

Hope this helps, oops, I forgot to mention earlier, both applications .... are FREE.

[blinky88]

Shade,

Please post your results using the backup method I suggested .... your fingings may help others who are having a similar problem.

[bazooka]

Why not just burn another copy from the shrunk files on your hard drive?

That would be the answer to your problems.

[Gurm]

Nero's burn process could be "confused". I've seen this happen many a time before.

For a long time, Nero and DVD Decrypter would burn at completely different speeds, both would request 4x but Nero would get 4.1x and Decrypter would get 3.9x, that was always a bit weird.

I've always chalked it up to "Nero uses ASPI and ASPI can be dodgy". I'd check out your ASPI layer.

Or, the obvious - you don't have Nero burning at 8x and Decrypter burning at 4x or something like that?

[Bronx]

The Shade

Just curious:

How to you labeling and storing your DVDs??

[copiador]

So far everybody tried to tell you to use this or that program. My suggestion is: put the DVD backup in the driver. Open Windows Explorer. Copy (drag and drop) the entire video_ts folder from the dvd to the hard drive. Then use Nero to copy from HD to another DVD.

[johnharlin]

Another thing you could do is get a friend to make a test for you and make a copy and see if he has any problems. That would help narrow down if the problem is software related.