Adjusting our PC monitor is a must

[Phoebos]

What we sometimes try to do is to use filters for improving the quality of captured VHS, i.e. we add little bit more red etc
But the question is if what we see on PC screen is close to what we shall see as an end product on the TV screen.
To solve this I m looking for a web adress or a program helping to adjust the colors, contrast etc of PC monitor in order to avoid considering that colors are ok while we discover on tv later that our pc screen fooled us completely..(looking for something with test bars etc)
If you try to watch the same footage using the PC a friend of your's, be sure you will watch another thing (it happened to me ). I don t know whose monitor was needing adjustment probably both's...




Thank you in advance

(P.S. My monitor is an Eiso Flexscan T57S)

[johns0]

Dont think it can be done cause if you adjust your monitor to match what you see with one clip then the next clip or movie can be different and throw off the settings.

Just have to encode a bit and burn to dvdrw and check that way if in doubt.

[Skith]

You can also (to an extent) adjust the color settings on most TVs. That might be the best option, especially since most TV's are not color calibrated.

[thecoalman]

Get a video card that supports TV out or dual monitor display. I haven't looked into it that much but that is probably the easiest way.

[EvilWizardGlick]

In theory you should adjust every input for the device on that input. That is why Avia and Video Essentials are sold.
Each device will vary in color bias and PQ. The user calibration dvd's will bring these as close as possible to what the screen image looked like.
At least as close as the average user can come without fancy equiptment and an arm and a leg in cost.
So, yes every device should be calibrated using the same reference disk, such as Avia or Video Essentials.

[VegasBud]

I use the Colorvision SpyderPro about once a month to calibrate my monitor. If you're not familiar with it, there is a sensor that attaches to the screen with suction cups, and plugs into your computer's usb port . Then you run software that puts up colors on the screen, under the sensor. The software compares what the sensor picks up with what the software ordered to be displayed, and makes a custom profile for the monitor. It's simple to use and precisely adjusts color, brightness, and contrast. It's about $150, and is available many places.
If you are adjusting colors-brightness-contrast on still or video files, you really, really need to calibrate your monitor.

[edDV]

A related thread that may add to the issue.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=248620

[sacajaweeda]

I usually just run a few sample clips to get it looking the way I want it.

[glockjs]

the only good way i have found is just good ol' experience. trial and error, when you get it right just remember it is all

[dfisher]

I've been doing quite a bit of VHS/Beta tape captures & I have a seperate 13 inch TV set up so I can monitor the picture on that. I find it gives me a much better idea of what the final picture will look like. I can make any color or contrast adjustments with my ATI card while viewing on the TV set & know that it will look about the same on my regular 27 inch that is part of my home theatre set-up.

[vhelp]

First, you can't match it 100% perfect. Why ?? The answer is right before
you all. 2nd Generation copy !!
.
You are taking a 4:2:0 and capturing it with a given codec. But, depending
on the codec, you could be downgrading it to lesser match if you don't
adjust acordingly. Its this adjusting that needs to be properly tweaked
and/or learnt to reproduce with satisfactory results.
.
I work inside DV format. I've ben doing this for a couple of years now.
I pretty much have it nailed down, to match closely the color space. But
even when I don't (which is really alright with me) I can match the source
video to be fluid, without blocks/dct/pixelation/blotches or whatever you
call it at the time you finally see them.
.
You'll mostly see this during low bitrates. The truth is, if quality is
you main objective, then a multi-pass encoding process is not the best
method to use, unless your Encoder is flawless. To date, I haven't seen
any Encoder flawless at low bitrates. Because even if you can get one
area fixed, there is always going to be another new area of issue
discovered. And if you too envolved in that new area, you could loose
yourself inside it, and when you find the answer, you could have very well
lost the first fix. And, you'll have to figure out how to compensate for
these areas as a whole.., or compremise with an average expectancy. Corney.

Anyways.

.. I've been telling you all over the past 2+ years what you need to get,
.. if your projects are video craftmanship. - - take a step backwards,
.. and get an older Graphics card (exactly line mine) !!

I work inside Overlay, because here is where you'll be able to work in
greater detail than you would, under normal video mode (during filtering)

.. Overlay opens a whole new world of truth inside your videos. You
.. only need to turn it on, to see it. But, it also takes a keen pair of
.. eyes to see something that is not normally seen. The Cherry.
.. But, most cards of today, are very stingy and tight on this, and don't
.. want for you to find this Cherry. So, they blind you with something
.. you've always wanted. Richness in color. Zillions of them. And so,
.. most Overlay feature modes, don't produce the Cherry that I'm talking
.. about here, not to mention, am using right now.. when I'm preparing an
.. encode after properly filtering with the colors.

First, and formost, always work inside (I'll say it again) OVERLAY
mode. You *MUST* be in overlay mode to get to the sweet spot. But, to
be able to *taste* the sweet cherry, you need to have the proper hard-on
(I mean) hardware to do this. And, its so cheap. You all think too big,
and too Future, and that's been your biggest stumbling block.

.. I've seen many samples of peoples work over the years, and the latest
.. stuff always leads to the same results. Too much darkness, due to improper
.. color adjustments.., due to incorrect mode. You need to do this in Overlay.

When you adjsut colors in this incorrect manor, you will have such issues
as blocks/dct/pixlexation/blotches or wathever you refer to them when you
watch them on your TV set. This is the result you receive when you set
your video's color levels outside of Overlay. It's like walking in the dark,
blindly. Everything will look pretty much the same - fluidness of color tone.
But, turn on the lights, even a dim one, and you will begin to see things
like more detail than you would, if you had the lights off.

For example ...

I can do *any* scene (darkest scene you can give me) and I'll match it, in
fluidness. Forget about trying to match the color space level to that of
your TV set. It's virtually imposible to acomplish with your given limited
tools (your Graphics cards) at hand. The issues you see, are artifacts
created due to the improper color ajustments. You are turning down the
darkness too much. Weathe it be Brightness; Contrast; or whatever color
adjustment feature/param you have at your disposal. It's adjusted all
wrong. Start adjusting your colors *with the lights on* !!

When you want to adjust your sources color levels (any attributes) you don't
do it under "normal" mode. Thats fault number one. You must adjust your
sources color levels under Overlay mode. Because Overlay will adjust to
your TV's actual brighness level (depending on your Graphics card, of course)
Most all newer cards of today don't take advantage of this Overlay feature.
There are simply too busy trying to show you ga-zillions of colors, cause
that's what you all want. TV isn't ga-zillion colors. It sort of has a limited
range, when pared up against your Graphics cards zillions of colors.
.
For my given setup, my card takes care of this for me, and I can fine-tune (for
the thousandth time) all my videos color levels almost flawless'ly.

So, for demonstration sake ...

* Give me any scene, from any source, and post it up here in a few AVI frames.
* If you only post a PIC or MPG, I'll check my library of videos, if i have that
.. given movie (vhs/laserdisk/dvd) and I'll return one here with a fluid and clean
.. background for you to compare with your source (hence, your method) !!

If you'd like to understand what I'm talking about, you can give this a shot,
and I'll see what I can do.

But, the bottom line here, is this. You'r Garphics card is hindering your
ability to fine-tune this area. You need to take a step back, and utilize
an older generation card for *this* type of ajustment. Many of you won't
want to do this. Actually, I'm betting that *all* of you don't, and won't.
But, you'll never know (nor truely understand) what i'm talking about, until
you see what I'm talking about
.
Think about it, after you've pulled enough hair out. Ponder it.

Good luck to all,

From the Video Workstation of,
-vhelp 3100

[trock]

This exact problem used to drive me nuts and I spent way too much time making adjustments on the PC and then burning DVDs and checking them on TVs over and over to try and get it right, with varying success.

Then I tried using the TV out of my video card but I discovered what many others have discovered and that is that the image after scan conversion is pretty fuzzy and oversaturated.

I finally found the real solution, again as many others have, and that is to use a video editor that enables you to send the timeline image via DV to a DV to analog converter (such as Canopus or ADS) and then to a calibrated video monitor (there are loads of these on eBay for very little).

Since doing that I've been in heaven because I see the true end result of any color correction and other filtering in realtime while I'm doing it and the guesswork is over. No more burning DVDs just to find out I got it wrong.

I will never, ever use my PC monitor to do filtering, color or brightness correction etc.

Try it, you'll like it.

[edDV]

I agree trock. Exactly what I said in the above link and the only way the pros do it.

The exception is you can use your camcorder for monitoring and feed your calibrated video monitor off that. You don't need a transcoder but they are handy.

PS: a good progressive EDTV or HDTV monitor can be calibrated pretty well.


Oops I posted the wrong thread above. This is the one that explains monitoring via IEEE-1394.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=253133

[mattyboy]

Get a dvd called "digital video essentials". Its really for HDTVs and dvd players, but it does the same job for a quality monitor. Its the best thing outside of getting an ISF tech to calibrate you set.
If you have a cheap monitor though, there is often nothing you can do to fix the picture.

[lordsmurf]

Lots of talking in this thread, but the answer is really simple. You cannot make the computer monitor look "THE SAME" as the tv. You can get it close, just eyeball it. No need for senseless "test discs" etc to calibrate it. It doesn't work 100% anyway.

Next, either use an output monitor, or learn to make DVD-RW test discs your friend. Easy as that. Learn to encode small test clips before doing hours and hours of work.

In the end, don't try to be too anal. TV sets and DVD players, to some degree, will make it look different anyhow. No two systems are alike, and never will be. When your current tv/player dies (inevitable), you can bet your next one will be different to some extent.

I have a proc amp for color adjustments, and then the TBC splits the signal out to a 13" monitor. Software filtering is not "bad" necessarily, just harder to judge. Again, just be close. Exact on one tv will NOT be exact on another anyway, don't waste too much time on it.

[trock]

A lot of truth in what LS says and I also use the proc amp to split-monitor
approach when capturing but for me for final fine-tuning in the PC, the
DVD-RW small test clip approach was still a pain compared to just seeing it right while I do it.

Once my external pro video monitor ($50 on eBay) was calibrated correctly (I used the Vegas NTSC SMPTE bars), the resulting DVDs look good on 3 different systems here and the clients are happy too. And a lot of time is saved.

[edDV]

Fortunately, serious editing/authoring packages have integrated test signals and scopes (waveform monitor and vectorscope). Freeware software needs to catch up.

I hope we see more focus on calibration and standardized levels. To use the avaiation analogy, the amateur video culture is still at the "seat of the pants" barnstorming level. The professionals long ago went from VFR to instruments. Worse for us, a computer monitor is like using stained glass as a cockpit window.

Proper use of colorbars and scopes together with an external video monitor will get you close to an industry standard DVD that will look good in all playback environments.

[mattyboy]

A lot of truth in what LS says and I also use the proc amp to split-monitor
approach when capturing but for me for final fine-tuning in the PC, the
DVD-RW small test clip approach was still a pain compared to just seeing it right while I do it.

Once my external pro video monitor ($50 on eBay) was calibrated correctly (I used the Vegas NTSC SMPTE bars), the resulting DVDs look good on 3 different systems here and the clients are happy too. And a lot of time is saved.

Theres no way you "calibrated" your monitor using a SMPTE pattern alone my friend. ISF techs use thousnads of dollars of equipment to calibrate a monitor to the correct colour temp. and many other levels of picture quality (including the geometry). Sorry but the replies here saying that its nonsense, apparently don't have a set worth adjusting,some people do.
And No one in their right mind would "try to get their monitor to look like their TV. PC monitors put out HD signals (res.) natively, so it would be a step backward to try to do that. With progressive scan TVs, we are trying to get our televisons closer to the picture that a PC monitor can achieve.

[lordsmurf]

Sorry but the replies here saying that its nonsense, apparently don't have a set worth adjusting,some people do.

I'm afraid you're off on a tangent too. You can own a million dollars in equipment and have decades of video experience. You can be so knowledgeable that you eat/breather/sleep video.

But at the end of the day, the facts remain...

Equipment varies too much. There is no "perfect" setting, and anybody that thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. Just get it as close as you can. Your eyes will not deceive you, although some meters may help.

[trock]

Theres no way you "calibrated" your monitor using a SMPTE pattern alone my friend

Yes, I should have added "among other tests and tools". But the SMPTE pattern got me in a good starting ballpark.

But LS is also right in that you don't always need to use thousands of dollars worth of equipment to get your monitor enough in the ballpark to produce reproducible workable results (depending of course on your publics).

At the end of the day you use what works for you.

[mattyboy]

Thats ridiculous, each monitor is different thats why they can be calibrated with ISF equipment, to adjust it to the perfect settings, taking into account everything from the light level in the room to where you sit to watch movies. Theres not one standard level to which the colour, tin, brightness,etc is set to and then ALL TV/moniotrs have to be set to this it varies thus they can be set to the perfect picture. You're talking opinion, Im talking facts.