Scientific Atlanta HD cable box/DVR to PC

[ironlungs]

Ok so I have a bunch of TV shows recorded on my Scientific Atlanta 8000HD box and I can't figure out how to transfer them over to my PC. It has firewire inputs, a USB 2 input, and an S-video input. I tried connecting the box to the PC (well for portability's sake this time it was my laptop) via both the firewire cables and then tried the S-video...nothing happened. I was hoping it would show up as a new drive or something....how do I get these shows onto my PC? Thanks!

[SatStorm]

The analogue way... Unfortunatelly for you!
That means you capture them the old fashion way! Use the S-Video and a good card (like ATI, since you are NTSC) and capture direct to mpeg 2.

[Gurm]

Actually most of the DVR boxes stream their video out the firewire ports while playing. So you CAN get a digital copy but it's not elegant and requires some firewire stream-grabber whose name eludes me.

[ironlungs]

so theres no way to get the HD files off there in the same quality?? then how do most the digital files online get there?

[zx7ninja]

I think that the answer to that qustion depends on the file/content.
I think most of the psuedo-HD files online (I say psuedo because most are re-encoded to divx or xvid, thereby they are no longer true HD) come from modified Satellite DVR boxes.
Certain boxes are moddable with firewire ports specifially for streaming video to the PC. Along with the mod is software for controlling everything.
One place I know of provides the software and mod for just under a grand, if you supply your own box. (although i've seen modded RCA DTC100's for less than 800 or so last i looked)
Other software can be used to convert the streams to DVD format, but keep in mind, that while quality would be excellent, it will no longer be true HD.
But in most cases, still on par or better than DVD's.
While the mods and software are perfectly legal, i'm not sure about the actual committing of the act of transferring to the PC and/or recording to DVD.

Other online HD content, which is growing day by day, is the WMV-HD format. There are online sites and such that offer videos in this format.

[ironlungs]

I'm just wondering if there is any software I can download that will be all I need. I'm not worried about having in "true HD" if it will indeed still be excellent. My goal is to not have to really buy anything else...unless its something simple and inexpensive...not looking to mod the whole system all over again. Sounds to me like I have all I need with the ports and the cable...just missing some kind of software to get the PC to recognize the box...

[hsugawar]

Short Answer
The analog way. Get a good S-Video/Audio to USB capture device and hook it up to your laptop. Of course, you can't get HD video nor DD5.1 audio in this way, but it's your destiney.

Long Answer
Cable and satellite companies are very concerned about content protection or prevention of piracy. So they never allow you to make digital copies of broadcast contents. Your SA box is rented from your cable operator and they control your box. Do not expect the USB and IEEE1394 ports to be for general interfacing to arbitrary external components; they are for very specific purposes the cable (or satellite) company decides to offer. The best you could do is to get a DVD burner that your cable operator certifies to burn a DVD. The burning will probably be done in a transfer-once manner and the content will be encrypted so that you cannot copy it to your PC anyway. Ask your cable operator for the availability of such a device.

hiro

[edDV]

If you "had all you needed" a quick reading of the SA FAQ or a call to the cable provider would be in order.

They have complete control of those ports and HDTV recording is not provided unless they provide it. If they choose to then HDCP encryption would be employed.

The most likely route they would support is the 19Mb/s firewire stream targeted to JVC Digital VHS machines, if at all.

[ironlungs]

Ok so hsugawar said I need a good S-Video/Audio to USB device...im not entirely sure what that means...I have a S-video cable with two S-video ends so I am assuming thats not it. Does anyone have a link to such a device? And how good would the quality be?

[hsugawar]

ironlungs,

Though you mentioned your laptop has an S-Video "input," I am really suspicious; isn't it an S-Video "output"? Well, IEEE1394 and USB are bi-directional, not input-only. If it is really an S-Video input, all you need is an appropriate application program as well as S-Video and audio cables (assuming your laptop has an audio input--preferrably stereo).

If your laptop does not have an S-Video input, it is probably a good investment to buy one of commercially available USB-based audio/video capturing devices like those listed at http://www.everythingusb.com/hardware/Graphics_and_Sound/USB_Video_Capture.htm.

hiro

[ironlungs]

Yah your probably right...What I meant was that there is an S-video port on the back of the laptop and on the back of the DVR...What do these capturing devices do exactly? And is this the key to getting the content off the DVR? I've done some other searching and it appears that the content is indeed encrypted making it difficult to transfer. Something I read said it might be possible to do it with the DVI ports....

[hsugawar]

ironlungs,

I have no knowledge about your SA DVR, but I do have some general idea about "digital cable ready" DVRs because it's my business. Generally, those "cable-ready" DVRs are quite closed in terms of compatibility with external devices, all for security reasons: cable operators never want to see their broadcast contents freely copied and exchanged with their original quality--i.e. in digital.

Yes, HDMI could be a possiblity, only if it were a dumb clear text stream. Unfortunately, it is more likely encrypted and you need a device with a licensed key to use its data.

Another issue is audio. Unless your recorded shows are silent movies, you need an SPDIF input. I have not seen any HDMI/SPDIF capturing device for an affordable price.

Well, I do understand your desire to transfer your recorded contents all by digital means, and it sounds really stupid to convert the recorded contents that are already digital in to analog once and to re-digitize them with a capturing device. But that's the reality.

Do get a capturing device compatible with USB 2.0 for full NTSC speed capturing. Ah, I have never seen HD-compatible kind of USB capturing devices. So, your choice is limited to standard definition video and stereo audio.

hiro

[edDV]

Just to add to what hsugawar has said:

"Yes, HDMI could be a possiblity, only if it were a dumb clear text stream. Unfortunately, it is more likely encrypted and you need a device with a licensed key to use its data."

Current home HDTV equipment in the, USA at least, uses the HD version of DVI-I for video (HDTV scan rates and HDCP encryption) or HDMI (same as HD-DVI-I but adds 8-channels of Digital Audio and bidirectional device control features).

HDCP encryption is programmable to some degree by the equipment designer and broadcaster. It is designed to allow digital interconnection of supported HDCP HDTV equipment (e.g. set-top tuner, DVR, HDTV monitor) with while maintaining copy guards on the digital signal.
http://www.digitalconnection.com/FAQ/HDTV_12.asp
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/howto-dvi-hdmi.html#faq

While a HDMI PC capture device is technically possible, Hollywood and broadcasters do not want this to be done and the line is drawn there.

The next step in record control will be the infamous "record flag" that will limit recording to those devices under HDCP security. Hollywood has control via record flag to inhibit analog component HDTV output, forcing tuner output to 480p or down to just S-Video for specific broadcasts.
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/10062
http://www.eff.org/broadcastflag/


"Well, I do understand your desire to transfer your recorded contents all by digital means, and it sounds really stupid to convert the recorded contents that are already digital in to analog once and to re-digitize them with a capturing device. But that's the reality.

Do get a capturing device compatible with USB 2.0 for full NTSC speed capturing. Ah, I have never seen HD-compatible kind of USB capturing devices. So, your choice is limited to standard definition video and stereo audio."

I get excellent results using the Canopus ADVC-100 to capture the S-Video and audio outputs of the tuner-DVR to IEEE-1394. At the computer, I either record the stream to DV-AVI or realtime encode to MPeg1, Mpeg2 or WMV depending on needs. USB2 devices are available as well, but I like to stay within the well controlled DV IEEE-1394 environment.

[junkmalle]

And, by the way, anything you record via the S-Video output will not be HD.

[hsugawar]

Thanks for the detailed info.

Well, nothing should be technically impossible. But breaking today's digical copy protection technology requires far more than distinguishing between an S-Video input and an S-Video output.

Bottom line is, if you want a practical solution, go get an analog capturing device. If your archive is all NTSC, it's not excellent in picture quality anyway. I just prefer USB devices to IEEE1394s for their more availability and better prices in general.

hiro

[ironlungs]

I really appreciate all the help guys....very in depth information...but I'm still a tad confused. I don't know ANY of those abbriviations...but the message I'm getting is that I CAN copy the content if I buy one of the devices on the list you linked me too....and I just hook it up between my PC and my DVR? And even though the quality wouldn't be HD...would it still be very very good? Something worth playing back on a TV without lousy grain? Another issue I have is when I am playing back files on my PC through the TV as a monitor...I'm having contrast troubles...the lights appear fine but the darks all get blended together and appear to dark without detail. Can I adjust this through the PC?

[zx7ninja]

ironlungs, these guys are right.
There is absolutely no software or anything you could get that will allow your PC to recognize the box.
No other way, either. Period.
The ONLY way I know of how to do it, is the way I posted earlier.(modded satellite boxes)

Now, you should be able to record digitally to a JVC DVHS deck, as stated earlier. These would be HD. I don't know of a way to transfer from the DVHS deck to the PC, but it might be worth looking into.
But, either option will cost you. And it won't be cheap.
So basically, what you're looking for doesn't exist. And maybe never will.

However, the SA 8300HD DVR is now out, and you should be able to trade your 8000 in for it at your cable company for no charge.
It has a SATA connector for connecting an external SATA hard drive for increased storage. I don't know if the port is active yet, but when it is, i'm sure someone will be able to make a program to allow your PC to recognize the external drive. (which is loaded with your recordings)
Even if it's not possible yet, the 8300HD DVR is a much better unit. Better picture quality, connection options, simultaneous dual TV viewing (the 8000 can only have one active at the same time, the 8300 has all outputs active at once) etc... So it's worth it to trade up just for that.

[edDV]

And, by the way, anything you record via the S-Video output will not be HD.

Very true, S-Video is the Y/C form of standard resolution NTSC or PAL analog but the limited good news is the quality is equal to or superior to what you can get from a high quality over the air tuner. The story differs by type of "channel" coming from the set top box (cable or satellite).

Local Analog Broadcast Stations or "analog cable"
These were once broadcast as composite NTSC (or PAL) and had to be "comb filtered" to separate the Y (luminance) and C (chrominance) information. The decode quality will depend on the filtering in the set top box (cable), or in the case of satellite, at the point of MPeg encoding.

MPeg2 "digital channels"
MPeg2 channels are D/A converted into RF "CH 3", composite "RCA" or S-Video (Y/C). S-Video is the best quality especially if you plan to capture and encode back to MPeg2 at your computer.

DTV-HDTV channels
These get "downconverted" into standard resolution interlaced Y/C in the box. Again recording the S-Video Y/C gets the best results.


So what is better than S-Video from a set top box? In order of increasing quality ....

Component analog video (Y, Pb, Pr - low bandwidth)
This is standard interlaced 525 or 625 full resolution video. Currently no affordable capture cards exist.

Component analog video (Y, Pb, Pr - wide bandwidth)
This is progressive 60 frames/s 525 or 50 frames/s 625 full resolution video. HDTV set-top boxes put 1080i and sometimes 720p on these connectors as well. Currently no affordable capture cards exist.

Digital 480p, 720p, 1080i
These outputs exist on the HDCP protected digital connections (IEEE-1394, DVI-I and HDMI)

[ironlungs]

It's just that I keep reading the recurring terms of "DVI" and analog capture as a potential method...EdTV mentioned a capture device he has that works well...

So my question boils down to this:

1)If I buy a USB or firewire capture device...I can get the content on to my PC after I have already exported it from the DVR through analog....how do I transfer to analog?? There are instructions in the DVR manual on how to output to a VHS player...that I know of.

Really what would wrap this up neatly would be step by step instructions on what I need to do in order to get these TV shows off of the box....because I'm stupid and becoming a pain in the ass to you all (sorry)....I don't even care about high quality anymore...as long as its "good".

[hsugawar]

ironlungs,

The issue is whether you can make digital copies or not. Think about this analogy.

If you want to make a copy of a written document, you have two choices, ether to get the original document file--MSW or PDF--or to go to Kinko's with a printed original. The former reproduces an exact copy with absolutely no loss in quality, even after multiple generations of copying, while the latter may be a bit fuzzier and only acceptable at the worst. Broadcast operators spend every effort to prevent the former on their broadcast contents. Those analog capturing devices do the latter: You hook up one of those to your DVR's S-Video (or composite video) and audio outputs, with its USB (or IEEE1394) end to your PC. You run the bundled software. You play back your DVR manually. Voila! The resulting picture (and sound) quality is definitely worse than original but most probably in a very acceptable range. Again, you are very unlikely able to capture HD video and surround audio in this way.

SA 8300HD sounds attractive if you can use the external SATA drive to increase the recording capacity. But do not expect that you'd be able to reconnect the external drive to your PC to retrieve or play back the digital contents because the contents are very likely encrypted.

hiro

[edDV]

For analog recording, just use the RCA connectors to your VCR inputs.

If you use analog to digital capture to a IEEE-1394 DV stream (using a 'pass through' DV camcorder or transcoder box), then most standard editing/DVD authoring software will manage the rest of the process (e.g. Nero 6 Ultra, Ulead Video Studio 8, Vegas Movie Studio, Windows Movie Maker 2, winDV, Premiere, Vegas 5, Avid, etc.)

For USB2 analog to digital capture you need to look carefully at what capture software is supported for that particular device. Mileage will vary.

[ironlungs]

Ok now its all much more clear. thanks! I'm wondering if I'm just better off using torrent files to get high def TV online...only I'm notcing there are a few options and I don't know the difference:

HDTV - usually around 350MB for a 1 hour show
PDTV - between 400 and 500
HRHD - 700MB

is the 700MB version truly much better than the 350MB version? if so, then i'll go for the better.

[EvilWizardGlick]

My SA box will either use the component out or the s-video, but not both at the same time.
I found it crappy, had some audio synch problems, when using their "record to vcr" function.

[seinfan]

I also have the SA HD8000 DVR box. I've had a heck of a time figuring out how to get shows of the DVR. I wanted to just transfer all the non-HD shows to a VCR. I know I can't get the HD shows on a regular non-HD VCR, but I figured I could get the standard shows on VCR. Much to my disappointment, I've found out that all of the outputs on the back of the box are not operative, except for the Component HD outputs. No video signal from the Coax out, S-video out or RCA outs. My "archive to VCR" doesn't even work! Is this just how all the 8000HD boxes are configured, or did my cable company (TimeWarner) disable these on purpose? I have talked to all kinds of people at TimeWarner and finally someone admitted that I cannot archive to a VCR through this box. Any answers on this??

Thanks!

[seinfan]

After reading EvilWizardGlick's post, maybe I should try disconnecting the component video while trying to use the S-video output? Maybe I'll try that...

[edDV]

I don't have that exact box, but you usualy make the output choice in the menus.

[seinfan]

Well, I tried what people have said with this box. I changed the output format to only output 480i. Then I disconnected my component cables and connected an S-video out from the cable box to the input on my TV. All I see is a grey screen on the S-video input on the TV! I'm beginning to think that the only output that works on my 8000HD from TWC is the Component out. Has anyone else figured this out? Thanks for any help!

[EvilWizardGlick]

I also have the SA HD8000 DVR box. I've had a heck of a time figuring out how to get shows of the DVR. I wanted to just transfer all the non-HD shows to a VCR. I know I can't get the HD shows on a regular non-HD VCR, but I figured I could get the standard shows on VCR. Much to my disappointment, I've found out that all of the outputs on the back of the box are not operative, except for the Component HD outputs. No video signal from the Coax out, S-video out or RCA outs. My "archive to VCR" doesn't even work! Is this just how all the 8000HD boxes are configured, or did my cable company (TimeWarner) disable these on purpose? I have talked to all kinds of people at TimeWarner and finally someone admitted that I cannot archive to a VCR through this box. Any answers on this??

Thanks!

In the setup (settings) you should be able to choose either component or s-video.
Or, you could run the coax out to the vcr.
Or, you could (if the tv is equipped) run the video out from the tv.
Either way it is still a pain in the ass, and that record to vcr is the biggest crock I have ever seen

[EvilWizardGlick]

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub/index_new.asp

You need to register, but it is Scientific Atlanta's site, with all sorts of nifty manuals

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub/index_new.asp
" Q. Can I copy a recording play back or a live TV show to my VCR?
A. Yes, you can connect your VCR input to the main Composite Output (or the RF output) on the Explorer 8000 to copy a live program or a playback to VCR tape. However, this method will record everything you display on the TV screen (including pausing the program, bringing up the PIP screen, or bringing up the Program Guide).

A future software release will allow the user to connect the VCR inputs to the second Composite output labeled OUT 2 (VCR). This will allow the user to simultaneously copy a recording to VCR tape while recording two other programs and playing back another recording. The PIP screen will display what is being copied to VCR, but simultaneously the user can tune either recording in progress or playback another recording in the Main screen."

Q: I have the VCR Commander from a previous cable box from your company. There is a VCR output plug on the Explorer 8000. Is it possible to use this function in addition to the internal drive for recording?
A: The VCR Commander is not supported on the Explorer 8000 home entertainment server. The VCR outputs will be activated in a future software download to your set-top and you will not need the VCR Commander. It will be a direct coax connection. "
...
"Q. Are all the recordings securely encrypted on the hard drive? Can the hard drive be removed and the recordings viewed or copied?
A. All the DVR recordings are encrypted and cannot be digitally copied or viewed in another device, including another Explorer 8000. However, the DVR recordings can be played back and copied to a VCR tape if the VCR is connected to the RF output or the "OUT 1 (TV)", main composite output. In addition, a future software release will activate the VCR Output on the Explorer 8000 back panel. When you see an on-screen option called "Copy to VCR" after you select to play back a recording, then you know this VCR copy feature is active."
...
"Q. How do I connect the Explorer 8000 to my TV and VCR?
A. The "OUT 2 (VCR)" composite output on the E8000 back panel will be supported in a future software release. When you see an on-screen option called "Copy to VCR" after you select a recording from the Recorded List screen, then you know this VCR copy feature is active. In the meantime, the VCR can be connected to the RF output or the "OUT 1 (TV)", main composite output."

[ironlungs]

all around sucks