What would you do to stop piracy?

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

What would you do to stop piracy?

Wait a minute, the question is not as easy to respond as it looks...
I'm not talking about the states, or the UK or Canada, or any first world country. If you took 2 seconds to look below my avatar, you should have seen that I'm from Ecuador. Down here, things are a little bit different than in your countries; I will explain it further.
Down here, piracy is on every corner, every little store, every huge mall have places where you can buy backups of DVD's for $3 and VCDs for a $1. Of course it's Illegal, but the law here doesn't care about it, and it's an open business for all pirates here. It's estimated that nearly 3000 Families and 20,000 people makes a living by copying, selling, or even renting copies just in my city. (2.5 Million Habitants)
Now, it's easy for you, in countries where the janitor earns $8-10 an hour ($1280-1600/Month), and a brand new dvd costs $20-25, to say "I don't know why people copy Dvd's if they are so cheap".
Here, where the teller of any bank earns $120 a Month, yes, a month (and there's even people that earns $60 a Month!), AND an original DVD costs like $40-45 (including taxes & stuff), you do the math and see that you will be working a third of the month for a single dvd.
I'm not only talking about movie piracy, but the whole piracy concept, software, etc.
I own a small computer store, and I can tell you that 99% of my costumers use a copied version of windows. Microsoft DO have an office here, but they are powerless, they know this, but they can't do anything.
I'm not promoting or upholding piracy at all, just telling the facts. Anybody from here can tell you the same thing.
What do you think would be a solution to combat piracy in a place like this? (South America)


P.S. Even the cops buy copied movies here...

[The village idiot]

Simple... lower prices for the originals.


Never happen.

[Rookie64]

What would you do to stop piracy?

nothing...it's not my job

the day the MPAA pays me to do something to stop it is the day I'll give that question thought.

Are they concerned over money I lose on my job? I think not...so what makes them so special?


I'm in the U.S. and I see piracy going on here as well

One of the local Toys R Us stores sells backups with xerox covers for $1 each (and no, the original is not included)

Record Stores around here have been selling bootleg albums since I was a kid - some I didn't even know were boots until many years later.

The legit online rental outlets are starting to rent out DVD-Rs of older movies that aren't available on DVD - and state they'll stop renting the DVD-Rs when the films become available.

In cities, you'll see people selling them on many corners - stuff currently playing in the theaters.

And you can easily find bootlegs online.

Not saying it's OK...just that it goes on here.

[flaninacupboard]

I would use my time machine to travel to 1995 make DVD-Video a different format (both in phyiscal size, 7" seems good, and the filesystem on the discs) so you need specifc equipment to reproduce them, not just a normal PC.

Hands up those who ever saw an LD-ROM drive, or an MD-ROM drive?

[tekkieman]

Time to cash out my 401K and move to South America. I could retire quite well!

[The village idiot]

Never saw an LD-rom, but I'm pretty sure they were available. I do remember seeing players with data connections. Same with the old Philips CD-I systems. And the connections were not just for the remote.

[northcat_8]

$3.00 per DVD???? Damn that's cheap, I charge $5.00.

[thecoalman]

Now, it's easy for you, in countries where the janitor earns $8-10 an hour ($1280-1600/Month), and a brand new dvd costs $20-25, to say "I don't know why people copy Dvd's if they are so cheap".
Here, where the teller of any bank earns $120 a Month, yes, a month (and there's even people that earns $60 a Month!), AND an original DVD costs like $40-45 (including taxes & stuff), you do the math and see that you will be working a third of the month for a single dvd.
...

Simple don't buy it if you can't afford it. There's lots of things I want that I can't afford but I'm not stealing them to get them.

[Tiny71]

Now, it's easy for you, in countries where the janitor earns $8-10 an hour ($1280-1600/Month), and a brand new dvd costs $20-25, to say "I don't know why people copy Dvd's if they are so cheap".
Here, where the teller of any bank earns $120 a Month, yes, a month (and there's even people that earns $60 a Month!), AND an original DVD costs like $40-45 (including taxes & stuff), you do the math and see that you will be working a third of the month for a single dvd.
...

Simple don't buy it if you can't afford it. There's lots of things I want that I can't afford but I'm not stealing them to get them.

My sentiments exactly.

[Ripper2860]

Now, it's easy for you, in countries where the janitor earns $8-10 an hour ($1280-1600/Month), and a brand new dvd costs $20-25, to say "I don't know why people copy Dvd's if they are so cheap".
Here, where the teller of any bank earns $120 a Month, yes, a month (and there's even people that earns $60 a Month!), AND an original DVD costs like $40-45 (including taxes & stuff), you do the math and see that you will be working a third of the month for a single dvd.
...

And they can afford a PC , DVD Burner, and blank media required to pirate the over-priced DVD movies !??

If people want to steal by pirating movies, that's fine -- but trying to justify it in order to minimize the fact that it is stealing, is just wrong. It's not any less wrong because you can't afford it. If you can't afford a DVD movie, you certainly can't afford the technology to pirate it. If you can afford the technology, you probably can afford the movie. You just make a conscious decision that you do not want to pay for it, or you somehow feel that it is not worth what they are asking, so you take it.

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

There's lots of things I want that I can't afford but I'm not stealing them to get them.

I understand your point of view, but we're not talking about a house on the hamptons, or the gambling weekend trip to Monaco. We're just talking about a single dvd movie, that's it.

I think that if they splitted the world in regions for controlling movie distribution, they should also thought about the economic reality of each of these regions and at least made price adjustments to fit these new market's pockets, therefore, claimed a new market and a new income.
Instead, here, the originals costs like 100% more, earning 1000% less.
Imagine that your dvds were priced $600 - $800 each.

It's easy to say "Don't buy them if you don't have the money" when you're on the upper side of the coin, but, as I already said, we're not talking about real luxuries, just simple movies.
The same way, it's hard to understand this to a person that never tasted the other side of the coin.

Then again, I'm not justifying them, just trying to find at least a theoretical solution to the situation..... that's why we're here, isn't it?... to discuss!

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

And they can afford a PC , DVD Burner, and blank media required to pirate the over-priced DVD movies !??

Remember what I have said, It's a few bunch that makes that, not ALL of them. Most people here didn't even have a computer, even less people owns CD-Writers. A DVD-Writer is indeed a luxury here, so we're not talking about the guy that has all this gadgets and simply doesn't want to pay for the movies; we're talking about the black market of people who don't have computers and buy copied movies.
So, I think it's not the case you're explaining there.

[adam]

The logical starting point is to find out WHY they cost so much relative to people's buying capacity. Its not entirely industry dependant. The retailers may be taking a huge markup, and they may specifically be doing it BECAUSE of piracy. If only 2% of the population buys their merchandize then they've got to charge a hell of alot more to make any kind of profit. In an economy like the one that you are describing, the only solution I see is to start enforcing the laws. Close down all the shops selling bootlegs, then the retailers can safetly lower prices. If they are making a $5 profit selling the DVD at $45, you can't just expect them to drop to $25 in an effort to combat piracy. They'd go out of business overnight. But it seems the piracy problem in your country is just the tip of the iceburg. The real problem is just with your economy in general.

I just got back from a trip to Ukraine. We all chipped in $20 and tipped our translator $100. He started crying and said it was the most money he had ever had at one time in his entire life. He said it would pay for his rent for like 6 months. In economies like this, overpriced DVDs are the least of people's problems.

[northcat_8]

I could careless if pirating is going on. As long as the quality is good then so be it.

I have no sympathy for the movie industry or the recording industry. Their won greed has led us to where we are today. I didn't see many news articles on people pirating Laser Discs or Vinyl LP albums back in the day, did you? The profits leveled out, so they found a way to "create" more money. Then came about CDs. A product that they could make for less than one cent per disc, they could sell a product off the shelf for 15.00 and having only invested .02 cents in the product. CDs worked so well DVDs followed straight away. I'm sorry, I cannot justify paying Jim Carey 40 million dollars to make a movie. Granted he is a funny MFer, but he's not 40 million funny. The movie industry is worse than the recording industry because the movie industry get you coming and going. They put the movie out in theaters, costs you $7.00 or more to see it, then it will come out on DVD and will cost you $20 to own it, then they will sell the rights to show it to HBO or Showtime and it will play 300 times on cable. They aren't losing money.

I heard something on TV the other night that said CD sales rose this year back to where they were 4 years ago. Isn't one of the major complaints by the RIAA, that sales are down because people are downloading? You know, here's a thought...maybe quantity of quality music is just not there and people aren't willing to buy trash. Ever think of that?

Here's how it is in my mind. If I buy the DVD then it is mine and I own it. I can then do whatever I want with it. Once you sell it, you have no more rights to it or how it is used. You don't see the farmer coming to your table telling you how to eat your steak do you? To me it would be like GM saying that since I bought the car I am the only one allowed to drive it. If my wife wants a car then she has to buy her own. That sounds just as stupid and the MPAA or RIAA trying to regulate piracy. It is an unwinable battle and now they are just screwed.

So many DVD players and CD players have been sold, the quality is near perfect...there aren't many upgrade to be made. With that in mind anything they do to try to make it harder to pirate or impossible to pirate is an exercise in futility. Because no matter what they do, the new media would still have to be play able in current DVD players. This will not change until major improvements can be made. I absolutely love the fact that they spend 5 years and millions of dollars to protect the disc from piracy and 2 weeks after it is released some guy has figured it out, wrote a program to automate the process and posted it on the internet for download. Check out your older DVDs, most were DVD-5 new DVDs are DVD-9...that was a good idea because the public could only burn 4.7 GB discs...but along came DVD Decryper, DVD shrink, Instant Copy and all of a sudden you could shrink the movie...and now what do we have getting ready to come off the shelves...dual layer burners...so now the precious dvd-9 can be backed up on the fly without having to encode it.

Just give up. You want to eliminate piracy?? Quit selling the DVD or renting the DVDs. Only let people see it in the theater or when it hits HBO and that's it. But that's not going to happen...DVD sales = big money.

To me this whole arguement seems like Bill Gates yelling at a walmart clerk because she shorted him .03 cents in change.

[DVD_Ripper]

I could careless if pirating is going on. As long as the quality is good then so be it.

I totally agree....

But... maybe for movies... but what about software? Same thing or is that different? Lots of people's jobs depend on the success of a movie ....a same number of people depend on the success of a software application.

I used to work for a CAD/CAM software developer whose $3000.00 premier cad app was being sold, (printed manual and all), for $100.00 in various Asian street corners. Stealing??

[thecoalman]

I understand your point of view, but we're not talking about a house on the hamptons, or the gambling weekend trip to Monaco. We're just talking about a single dvd movie, that's it.

Doesn't matter stealing is stealing, we had stockpiles of coal. People used to come by and take a few buckets here a few buckets there. Those buckets added up to thousands of dollars. Got to the point it was cheaper to hire a full time guard. Which in turn drove up the price for our paying customers which was unfair to them because they were essentially subsidizing the thefts.

Even at $3.00 dollars a disc if they are only making $60.00 a month thats still 2 days to purchase a disc. I'd suggest they save their money for food, clothes or put it in the bank for the future. Don't you love it when they show some 3rd world ghetto on TV where all the houses have satellite dishes. Don't point your finger at me and state it's easy because I'm on the other side of the coin, my family was poor at one point too struggling to make ends meet and I can categorically state that they weren't going out buying uneeded things they couldn't afford or stealing them because they couldn't.

Northcat,

I agree wholeheatedly with some of your opinions but pirating media/software is not the way to go about solving the problem. Simply not buying it is. Supply and demand, if there's no demand the prices will drop, the last time I looked nobody died of lack of entertainment. Another point I would like to make is you can't make an exact duplicate of a $25,000 GM car for $1,000.

[handyguy]

Piracy is okay as long as you don't profit from it. Just as Moore said.

[northcat_8]

Northcat,

I agree wholeheatedly with some of your opinions but pirating media/software is not the way to go about solving the problem. Simply not buying it is. Supply and demand, if there's no demand the prices will drop, the last time I looked nobody died of lack of entertainment. Another point I would like to make is you can't make an exact duplicate of a $25,000 GM car for $1,000.

I do not advocate piracy and I do not pirate movies. I maybe guilty of downloading a song every once in a while but I only download a song that is pretty old and I can't find it in the music store.
I don't think it is anyway to solve the problem either, but in the beginning when they first came out the designers lacked vision and did not accurately predict technology. Seems to me that if the MPAA were really serious about it they would attack the DVD-Rom manufacturers. If the computer DVDrom can't read it that makes it pretty difficult to pirate. DVD players are cheap enough now that if you can afford a PC, you more than likely have a DVD player.
I just find it Ironic that the very technology that enabled them to increase their profits by a great margin, is also the same technology costing them money.

[Treebeard]

Piracy is okay as long as you don't profit from it. Just as Moore said.

I would cut handyguys internet connection

[Capmaster]

Three things - Reduce the money paid to the artists. Reduce the money paid to the recording label. Reduce the money charged for the product.

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

Adam wrote:

The logical starting point is to find out WHY they cost so much relative to people's buying capacity.

This is what I was talking about!, if they are cheap to produce, and you already covered the investment by playing the movie on theaters, AND you have the so called "regions" (so there are no people that will purchase the originals here and then take them back there), why not selling the dvds at a lower price?.

Adam wrote:

But it seems the piracy problem in your country is just the tip of the iceburg. The real problem is just with your economy in general.

You got the point!.

Adam wrote:

I just got back from a trip to Ukraine. We all chipped in $20 and tipped our translator $100. He started crying and said it was the most money he had ever had at one time in his entire life.

The same should have happened here.

Northcat_8 wrote:

Their won greed has led us to where we are today.

I'm sorry, I cannot justify paying Jim Carey 40 million dollars to make a movie. Granted he is a funny MFer, but he's not 40 million funny.

I heard something on TV the other night that said CD sales rose this year back to where they were 4 years ago. Isn't one of the major complaints by the RIAA, that sales are down because people are downloading? You know, here's a thought...maybe quantity of quality music is just not there and people aren't willing to buy trash. Ever think of that?

Couldn't agree more with you!

Coalman wrote:

Don't you love it when they show some 3rd world ghetto on TV where all the houses have satellite dishes.

what?... in Shrekland maybe!, believe me, if you see a single dish, then, it's not a poor neighborhood.
Just to compare a little, the only company that sells cable tv here (in Ecuador) charges $20 for the service. Only 2% of the people in the country have cable!, in most neighborhoods, the company didn't even bothered to install the networks!. DirecTV?... off the question to nearly most people.
Thanks to God, I make a decent living, no complaints, as I told you before, I own a small computer repair store and have certain commodities and a few luxuries (Luxuries: Computer, DirectTv... wow, what a luxuries! ). I have a friend working in DirectTV, and as a matter of fact, I know they don't have 200 customers here. (It's close to 180)
Uh... I think I walked a little away from the point... the point is coalman, that if you see a satellite dish, then it's not a guetto.
People around here, don't save the money in banks anymore. What i'm about to tell you, most of you won't believe, but it is true.
About 5 years ago, one day, no reason, all the banks in the country closed and didn't open for a few days. When they opened again, watch this... there was a presidential order that all the accounts with funds of more than $500 were "confiscated for a whole year". Stupid excuses were made, nobody really knew why. HUNDREDS of old people died because they had their retirement money in the bank and couldn't withdraw a penny. That sunk the country where we are today. Five years have passed, and obviously, the people NEVER got their money back, so, the government ripped off the whole country. There has been some restitutions of funds... but not much.
That's why people don't save in banks anymore!.

I think I agree with Adam, the economics of the country is the main reason and there will never be a solution until that is fixed.


extracted from some manifiesto you should probably heard of

We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals.

[/quote][/b]

[thecoalman]

Three things - Reduce the money paid to the artists. Reduce the money paid to the recording label. Reduce the money charged for the product.

This is a reply in general, I'm quoting Capmaster because it seems to be the general opinion.

Yes they could do that...But why should they be required to. If Jim Carey can command a $40m payday why should he be denied that. If the makers can sell a DVD for $50.00 why not it's there choice how much they sell it for. It's shouldn't be someone else's decision how much your worth or what you make on a product. We're talking about media and software both of which are not a neccesity they are a luxury. If we were talking about food or some other thing neccesary to live it might be another story.

In the U.S. it's a free marketplace and it is one of things that makes this country so great. Denying anyone the right to make what they can is unacceptable in my opinion. People don't need to buy DVD's, if they can't afford it then don't, if a lot of people simply didn't buy a product because it cost too much either the price is going to come down or the seller is going to go out of business. Plain and simple as that.

[Capmaster]

Three things - Reduce the money paid to the artists. Reduce the money paid to the recording label. Reduce the money charged for the product.

This is a reply in general, I'm quoting Capmaster because it seems to be the general opinion.

Yes they could do that...But why should they be required to. If Jim Carey can command a $40m payday why should he be denied that. If the makers can sell a DVD for $50.00 why not it's there choice how much they sell it for. It's shouldn't be someone else's decision how much your worth or what you make on a product. We're talking about media and software both of which are not a neccesity they are a luxury. If we were talking about food or some other thing neccesary to live it might be another story.

In the U.S. it's a free marketplace and it is one of things that makes this country so great. Denying anyone the right to make what they can is unacceptable in my opinion. People don't need to buy DVD's, if they can't afford it then don't, if a lot of people simply didn't buy a product because it cost too much either the price is going to come down or the seller is going to go out of business. Plain and simple as that.

If they stop paying him that much every time he demands it, he'll stop demanding it, or he won't work anymore. It's not like he can go to South America or Europe and get that kind of money for a movie there.

The problem is getting all the studios to stop offering that much. If all studios but one puts their foot down, the one willing to pay that much gets the top name and wins. After the first two weeks of box-office, they get back his salary. Everything else is gravy.

There has to be a concerted effort by everyone. Call it price-fixing, call it a wage freeze, or a salary cap. We need something.

[northcat_8]

I don't disagree Coalman. Heck if he can get more than more power to him. However those costs are covered down the line. We the consumer are paying his salary.

I think in order for prices to drop significantly, the consumers have to take control and stop buying the product, stop going to see the movie in theaters until the prices come down. Now initially, when there is a dip in their sales they will raise the prices to cover money already spent. If the consumer would hold out long enough the prices would come down. Gas prices are the same way. If everyone nation wide would just say to hell with it, buy a horse and park their car, gas prices would plumit and so would insurance rates. It pisses me off everytime I drive through a major city and look at all the buildings. You know who has the nicest buildings? Insurance Companies and Banks.

It's basic supply and demand. As long as comsumers are willing to pay $7.00 for a movie and $22.00 for a DVD then why drop the prices? Hell I have an empty beer can that is worth 12 million dollars if I can find someone to pay that much for it.

I think too many times people forget who works for who. I am a consumer, I BUY the products, without my purchases your business would not be in business. (Are you paying attention DirectTV ). It is not the other way around if prices are too high then I don't buy it, I can do without it. I have walked off of a carlot because I told the salesman "I don't want my payments to be over $280.00 per month" and he comes back with his first offer of $295.00 I just got up and started to walk out when he said "wait a minute, let me see what I can do" and I said "you better go get your goddamn ears checked, because if you come back out here with $280.01 or above, I'm not going to be so ******* polite about it." Hey what do you know...he came back with $276.76. I still didn't buy the car from him because I told him I thought he was dishonest and was trying to squeeze every cent he could out of me.

It's simple, if you don't want to pay that much then don't buy it. The dog wags the tail and we the consumers are the dogs.

[indolikaa]

What do you think would be a solution to combat piracy in a place like this? (South America)

Bomb the living **** out of them!!!




Seriously, when the 'world' starts caring enough about bringing the 'Third World' out of the economic doldrums and creating a better life for all involved, I'll start caring about piracy a little bit more. Until then, we have bigger fish to fry than the poor sod who sells pirated VCDs in hopes that he might be able to afford a little luxury in life.

I don't condone piracy, but I don't have any love for the Fat Cats of the world who've been gouging the consumer for 20+ years.

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

Coalman, I give you that too. You're right in the things you're saying. USA is a free marketplace and it makes the country a great place to live.

What I'm saying is, It should be like the generic against the brand medicines, Brand names costs more, and generic medicines costs less even though is the very same formula.
What we're talking here is about copyright, somebody creates something everybody wants, and starts to sell it at the price he thinks he is entitled to. There are some people that simply can't afford the price, and start to copy it in order to have it without paying anything to the author, right?
Ok, now, what if we start to talk about medicines? Does that make any difference? The topic is “what would you do to stop piracy”, not DVD piracy, so I think the question is valid.
If we apply the same criteria, only the ones that have enough money to buy the brand name medicines should be healed, while the others not, so they should die.
I know, medicines are a must, while DVD’s don’t, but copyright is copyright, isn’t it? Why in the first case should be different?. Of course, the big Labs claim that they invest millions of dollars in research and they should be rewarded… fine, it’s fair; but what happen when they have covered and paid that research… why they don’t lower their prices?. That’s when the generics appear, same formula at a low price, only not with the brand name on top. It’s not ASPIRIN, it’s acetylsalicylic acid, but it costs like 500% less.
In Spanish, we have an old saying that is “La risa es un remedio para el alma” , sort of “Laughter is a medication for the soul”. People here doesn’t buy movies as a collection, or as a luxury, but in a place where national TV sucks to hell, and there is nothing else to do to kill your time, as a way to escape reality for a while, and forget the bad things of life, while you’re watching a more screwed than yourself little guy trying to sneak a little ring through the middle of hell. It’s a very little way to improve your quality of life, to have at least a little fun once a day.
If they made it with theaters (theaters costs here $2.40) why then they can’t adjust the DVD’s?
In the end, the only ones NOT LOOSING, but missing to win money, are they!.

[northcat_8]

The last time I went to the movie theater admission was $1.50 US. I'm not paying $7.00 to see a movie...I also do not buy DVDs. I will rent them...but not buy them.

[thecoalman]

It's basic supply and demand. As long as comsumers are willing to pay $7.00 for a movie and $22.00 for a DVD then why drop the prices? Hell I have an empty beer can that is worth 12 million dollars if I can find someone to pay that much for it.

.

Why I don't go to movies or purchase them. I pay the $4.00 bucks to rent it. Who the hell wants to watch half the crap more than once anyway.

Do purchase music, all second hand. Guy has a store that repairs old discs, they look like new when he's done and it's completley legal. Does quite a good business, can't beat buying a $25.00 double disc for $4.00.

Of course, the big Labs claim that they invest millions of dollars in research and they should be rewarded… fine, it’s fair; but what happen when they have covered and paid that research… why they don’t lower their prices?.

What happens when the investors can't make money and take there money elsewhere? What happens when the drug company can't afford to research drugs? No one benefits because there is no drugs....

Same thing with media if the investors or developers can't make money because it is pirated to the point that no one is buying it there would be none. If everyone pirated movies and software there wouldn't be any to pirate, why would anyone go through the effort for no reward. In the end what your suggesting is borderline communism and we all know where that got other countries.

Edit: How would you like it if someone came to your shop and said this is what your going to make when you sell a computer because most people can't afford them. What if you could make just as much flipping burgers without all the hassle of running a business. I know what I would do, go flip burgers.....

[adam]

Northcat, I was under the impression we were talking about MeDiCo_BrUjO's country. The prices for DVDs in places like America are NOT unreasonable. If anything its cheaper then it should be. $20-25 is definitely a fair price for a DVD. That won't even buy dinner for one at a half-way decent restaurant. The movie studio's are not gouging us like the recording studios are. They are already selling the movies for about as cheaply as they can. Did you know that the average theatrically released movie actually loses money overall? People get so worked up about Spiderman 2 making a gazillion dollars, but they don't realize that 90% of that profit went toward funding their experimental flicks that went belly up, as most do.

I also don't think that the enormous salaries of the actors is the problem either. After all, the same movie is sold for a reasonable price in American and at an unreasonable price in Ecuador. It seems obvious to me that this problem is much larger then any studio, its a national problem within these individual countries. I'm sure MeDiCo_BrUjO could name plenty of other luxury items that are equally unattainable in his country.

[flaninacupboard]

If they stop paying him that much every time he demands it, he'll stop demanding it, or he won't work anymore. It's not like he can go to South America or Europe and get that kind of money for a movie there.

The problem is getting all the studios to stop offering that much. If all studios but one puts their foot down, the one willing to pay that much gets the top name and wins. After the first two weeks of box-office, they get back his salary. Everything else is gravy.

There has to be a concerted effort by everyone. Call it price-fixing, call it a wage freeze, or a salary cap. We need something.

Yep, i think studios should pay their actors for how much time they work, and at the same rate. when they make a huge profit on the latest JC blockbuster they can pump the extra cash into an effects heavy sci-fi movie that has no chance of breaking even. audiences are satisfied with a variety of movies, actors keep working and all get a fair chance at roles and there's probably even enough cash left to subsidise/lower DVD prices. It'd make film studios more of a community which i think would foster better films too.