It sucks!!!!....
How many times and posts are we going to read and respond to....352x240 SUCKS no matter how good the encoder is...
The resolution is just not there..if you don't believe me..
I can post a PROFESSIONAL VCD mpeg file trailer for the movie "The Cable Guy" with Jim Carrey.
This MPEG file (about 22meg) was encoded on the Sony RTE-3000 mpeg1 encoder... considered by most as the best on out there..
It looks good on my 33" TV..not great...but equal or a little better then VHS...
If someone gives me server space...I'll upload this file and the entire PRO VCD for everybody to check out...
Point is....VCD SUCKS!!!
So stop asking if it's good..and stop asking how to make 352x240 better..
You can't...you've reached the limits of sharpness for that res...there's just no more information you can pack in there..
As for people saying that you can get DVD quality out of it...(I'm not going to name names) you are F'ing rediculous.
Jason
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what is your problem? I can not believe, that any one said, he could get dvd quality out of a VCD.
VCD is the format, that probably all players can handle and that's why it is widely used.
If you want better quality, try DVD or at least SVCD. -
I think it's the AVI files that suck, I tried some quick time movie files and converted them to VCD and the quality was realy good! better then VHS.
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Dude got problems Truman, just leave it alone, I dont recall either ever reading that VCD(mpeg1) quality is close to DVD, Ive always seen that it has been placed right along side of VHS. I think it is quite foolish to expect DVD quality when you are cutting about 80%-90% of the bitrate out & chooping the resolution in 1/2.
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If anybody belives that a VCD should look as good as a DVD, you're in for a shock! If you think VHS video sucks, then going to VCD is no improvement in quality! http://www.dvdhelp.com is the web site for you who think VHS (VCD) sucks...
So why use VCD? Several reasons. The audio quality is basically stereo "CD quality", you can play the VCD over and over again, and it will not destroy the tape or degrade in any way, even after a long time, you don't have to rewind a VCD, you can jump instantly to any point on the VCD, you can make accurate edits, effects, titles and menus on the PC before you burn the VCD, you can view the VCD on a PC, you can send the file electronically, it takes much less space to store a VCD than a VHS tape, and I can go on and on. So, there is a point to using VCDs over VHS video tape, even if the quality is not any better. When we get to the point where a DVD burner cost $100 and a blank DVD disk is 50c, VCD and SVCD is the way to store video on a digital media for consumer use.
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On 2001-10-24 19:32:05, biffos wrote:
I think it's the AVI files that suck, I tried some quick time movie files and converted them to VCD and the quality was realy good! better then VHS.
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Yep. AVI = Shit
Avi is the stupidest format on earth. The only way to get a decent looking AVI File was if you were to use a lossless codec like huffYUV. The rest like divX suck terrible. DivX 3.11 was bad enough, divX 4.0 is much worse. -
Again..I have some of the highest quality VCD mpg's made...
and it looks fine..not great..but nothing that a good VHS can produce..
At least with VHS...you won't have color artifacting.blockiness etc..
Again..you say "then go to DVD"....that's why I just purchased the Pioneer A03 writer...now all my stuff is great...
Again..I spent the $480 on DVD-R/RW because there is no way to make a VCD look excellent...the res is just not there..
You say.."make a SVCD or XVCD"...well I did...I have our wedding on DVcam..I took a 5 minute clip...made a clip at 480x480 and found a setting that looked very good !!!
Then burned it..took about 3 re-codes to find the setting that would work great in my Panasonic A-310.
Was very happy..then went to 3 different friends homes all with 3 different types.. only 1 PLAYED !!
So why should I bother making a format which only some players are going to work with..
Went to Fry's, tried 19 different DVD players...only 8 of them worked...
Remember..SVCD or XVCD is not a USA supported format....you're lucky if your player has the compat.
So...I got the A03...burned the ENITRE 1hr.49min video from Premiere-Ligos at 9000max 5000ave. with Quant set to 2...
and it fit in at 4.2gigs
Then burned it on a DVD-R and a DVD-RW disc...
EVERY SINGLE PLAYER played the -R disc some did the RW...
Went to Fry's again today..and every player did the -R and every NEW player did the RW...
So now I have no Compat problems..
My question is this...all you guys out there seem to make a good living, or atleast have money to do all this stuff....Camcorders, fast CPU's, programs, vid capture cards... etc..
Out of all this money..why not spend the $480 (now $459) on the Pioneer DVD writer...and media is only $6 for -R..and put ALL your videos and other crap on there at the RES that digital was designed for?
I mean..one of my buddies just spent $600 upgrading his 1ghz P-III to a 1.4gig AMD with 1gb ram, new mobo etc.... and a 20x yamaha writer....
when he could have kept his current system, and got the A03 and plenty of media...
and not F'ing complain to me that his VCD's still look ok...but HEY !!!
They ENCODE faster now!!! Woohoo!!!
Jason
P.S. I'm not trying to be an ass here, just a believer of DVD-R..I've only had my A03 for 4 days now!!! -
Jason you are correct on a lot of points there. Last I heard supposely vcdhelp.com had in the range of 10,000-17,000 members...I would hazard to guess that # of "all you guys out there seem to make a good living, or atleast have money to do all this stuff" is a very small percentage of that 10-17 thousand....this is why I think a lot of people here are trying to do the best they can squeeze whatever out of mpeg1/VCD....I myself am waiting to see if/when dvd burners & media gets cheaper...more so, because I only do DVD rips(also I would guess that is what most do as well) and am not the type that really watches the same movie over & over...so right now its not worth the $$ for the few movies that I would actually keep...now, I only copy those (to mpeg2 that is) that I may not have time during my rental period to watch or those my neighbor has rented..anything, worth keeping that bad, I'll just go spend 20 bucks for the DVD.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kdiddy on 2001-10-24 20:41:07 ]</font> -
DVD , MPEG2 ra ra ra ........................
If the original source is poor . i.e: VHS tape the xVCD is the way to go.
"I have our wedding on DVcam" - how nice .. i have my kids on old VHS and Hi8. Not everyone has their originals on the high end media.
DVD burners will just allow you to put more (length) of "shitty" VHS source material on DVD media.
For DV (and some good quality Hi8 perhaps) MPEG2 is choice.
For all you whiners who are compaining about crapy DVD 'rips' whaaaaa .....cry me a Fn river.....put up with what you can get from the encoding technology or go buy the disk. -
Well, the big shortcoming right now with dvd writing is that there are 3 or more competing standards out there. Few people want to invest in a format that may be obsolete in a year or 2.
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Well firstly it should be pionted out that not all of us are able to afford a DVD-R Burner so we cannot really boast about it and degrade VCD, which has its pros and cons.
I agree that VCD or even SVCD is not as good quality as DVD but it does look as good as VHS Tape but only better than VHS Tape cos it dont skip or needs tracking and also for the lifespan.
As an Audio/Visual/PC Guy I notice that many ordinary people really do not mind the way a VCD or SVCD looks (especially if it is encoded professionally) and some cannot even tell! So I guess SVCD/VCD is going to be around for a long time to come considering the costs of making a SVCD/VCD, it is the easy way out for us average-pay folks. Personally I prefer SVCD and not VCD.
VCDHELP.COM ROCKS!
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"Avi is the stupidest format on earth. The only way to get a decent looking AVI File was if you were to use a lossless codec like huffYUV. The rest like divX suck terrible. DivX 3.11 was bad enough, divX 4.0 is much worse."
PARDON
i started doing this way back before divx even took off .. it was a pain in the A$$ havng to switch cds in the middle of the movie. and when put full screen on a monitor VCD only looks good from about 10 feet away when squinting.
divx full screen done CORRECTLY is amazing, nice and clear sitting a few feet away.
when placed with a tv card and run to a tv it is still amazing .. pretty much dvd quality and 1 CD!!!! .. vcd when done the same way sucks .. it does not look great in any res nor do i find does it have very good color depth
VCD is a dead format when PC's had no processing power and hapless people would use them as a cheap form of a dvd .. face it .. if all you's out there have a dvd player .. why not get a dvd (with the excpetion of those who use VCD format for converting home movies, etc)i mean it may be fun to fiddle around trying to make a good quality movie .. but with todays computer power people should focus on the good stuff .. divX can be great .. when i first tried encoding they sucke d.. and i should have went vcd instead because the files were too large .. now all my movies fit on one cd and look great on a big screen -
I have Gone in 60 Seconds on VCD that i encoded from a DVD-RIP. It is much better than any VHS i have seen even new ones. It has no blockiness or artifacts. It also has chapters and menus. This is why people use VCD. Why dont people go to DVD? Because where i live (Australia) DVD-R and DVD-RW retail for like 50 bucks compared to 50 cents for a CD and like an above poster said why buy a writer that might be obsolete when the standard is decided on.
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How can you say AVI sucks? Uncompressed AVI is basicly what AVID systems use. Also Quicktime and AVI are so similar that they differ by very little (structure wise). VCD is not shit, it is VHS. I have an offical Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon VCD and the quailty is amazing. All depends on source. I made a clip from the Cannonball Run DVD (the part when J.J. says equipment and makes duck noises, don't ask my friend and I think it's great) and it looks amazing. SVCD can achive almost DVD quality when exported to TV. All depends on player, source material, encoder, and output. Anyone who says AVI sucks obviously doesn't know what he is talking about. DIVX
and Divx 4 are hacks of Microsoft code for ASF, just with the extension AVI, well not Divx 4 but itself is based on DIVX
. So I can see how some people would hate DIVX, b/c if not encoded properly you do get shit. VCD = DVD? No way, is this thread going to get alot of posts? Yes. For your compression/quality needs; DVD is the way to go. VCD for the most part now adays is only for pirating movies and the Asian market. So don't worry about VCD, it's been here and while and isn't taking over any markets. You can be happy with your newly found DVD-R/RW, but don't brag about it by putting VCD down. Just makes you and your buddys look arrogant.
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I'm one of those propably few who prefer VCD over SVCD from lots of reasons, and i'm sure some would agree on those reasons:
1) THE most compatible standard out there! just about ANYTHING plays it!
2) THE most amount of movie on a single CDR media, everything else requires 3 CD's and more (Standard! not X)
3) EASIEST to make from all the rest!
4) FASTEST to make from all the rest!
5) GREAT quality when done from a high quality source! (and i'm not calling DIVX a high quality source!!!)
6) You DON'T need a Super Computer just to play it, even a simple K6-2 450 can play VCD smoothly!
7) NO need for special software, you can play VCD with the Media Player that comes with Windos98!
QUALITY stays! unlike VHS which quality goes after a few times of playback, so it's great for Movie storage!
Others propably have more reasons, for me those are the top 8, but for quality, VCD isn't the only factor, the disc could have the best quality and if your Playback program is crap and your Monitor is crap or your TV is crap or you are using a Video-Out from a cheap card to a TV, then ALL those factors can ruin quality!
Email me for faster replies!
Best Regards,
Sefy Levy,
Certified Computer Technician. -
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-25 04:46:56, Sefy wrote:
I'm one of those propably few who prefer VCD over SVCD from lots of reasons, and i'm sure some would agree on those reasons:
1) THE most compatible standard out there! just about ANYTHING plays it!
2) THE most amount of movie on a single CDR media, everything else requires 3 CD's and more (Standard! not X)
3) EASIEST to make from all the rest!
4) FASTEST to make from all the rest!
5) GREAT quality when done from a high quality source! (and i'm not calling DIVX a high quality source!!!)
6) You DON'T need a Super Computer just to play it, even a simple K6-2 450 can play VCD smoothly!
7) NO need for special software, you can play VCD with the Media Player that comes with Windos98!
QUALITY stays! unlike VHS which quality goes after a few times of playback, so it's great for Movie storage!
Others propably have more reasons, for me those are the top 8, but for quality, VCD isn't the only factor, the disc could have the best quality and if your Playback program is crap and your Monitor is crap or your TV is crap or you are using a Video-Out from a cheap card to a TV, then ALL those factors can ruin quality!
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ahh but what about SVCD, just on some of your points, it doesnt take much longer to make, its worth it for the amount of quality you get as opposed to VCD, and its soo simple to make, almost all (decent) standalone players play it, if yours doesnt, its your fault for buying a shit one. And windows can play it easy if you are smart enough to find an MPEG-2 codec, which basically every one is. It just doesnt compare to Super video CD, ive made superb SVCD's on 2cd's they absolutely cruched standard VCD quality without a doubt. -
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On 2001-10-25 01:17:47, pacmania_2001 wrote:
I have Gone in 60 Seconds on VCD that i encoded from a DVD-RIP. It is much better than any VHS i have seen even new ones. It has no blockiness or artifacts. It also has chapters and menus. This is why people use VCD. Why dont people go to DVD? Because where i live (Australia) DVD-R and DVD-RW retail for like 50 bucks compared to 50 cents for a CD and like an above poster said why buy a writer that might be obsolete when the standard is decided on.
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Yep. whole heartedly agree. There is only one DVD Burner here, and it costs 3 grand aswell, DVD-R's are about $15, and DVD-RW is about $25. So i stick to SVCD, it pleases me enough, it only ends up costing me about $2 in cd's to make on movie. And thats only a large amount if your a cheap arse. -
I have some home videos about an hour long and if I put it into VCDorSVCD format will it be good full screen on a TV using stand alone DVD player? cause I just downloaded a music video about 50meg and the quality is good at normal size but when put to full screen i have to step a couple of feet away, but its like VCR, so is this the same thing with VCD and SVCD?
»®»ŦħĄňķŜ«®«
»®»Life Is Góód«®«
»®»Its All Gööd«®« -
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On 2001-10-24 18:30:21, Jason A wrote:
It looks good on my 33" TV..not great...but equal or a little better then VHS...</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
What exactly is your problem? Nobody pretends that VCD looks any better than VHS, but there are plenty of advantages of VCD OVER VHS.
Of course DVD looks a lot better than both VCD and VHS -- was this ever in dispute?
As others have said, most people can't afford to buy a DVD burner at present. That fact that you can is somewhat irrelevant.
Regards.
Michael Tam
w: Morsels of Evidence -
AVI in its native uncompressed format it very good quality. You CAN make decent VCD and SVCD disks with a little effort. Will they be equal to DVD quality? Heck no! None the less they can be good quality.
As far as buying a DVD burner right now, most won't because it simply don't make sense to blow $400-600 on a piece of hardware that costs roughly $30 to produce.
Of course I'm very happy that the Jasons of this world WILL spend an exuberant amount of money now so companies can more quickly recover their R/D costs and lower the price for the rest of us. Thanks Jason. -
Jason A - Just wondering if we should all give up going to the cinema and come to your house?? All those glitches on the big screen must really piss you off.
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Douglesh:
You are right!!! SVCD is better than VCD. I just made some excellent movies in just 2 CD's. An I can play them in a cheap ($99.00 USD) DVD player. It is also truth that VCD is more accepted than SVCD, but this will change...
P.D. If your player cannot read SVCD's, use "Antonio S." encoding method for better quality.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DVD Master on 2001-10-25 13:33:29 ]</font> -
if i may put my 2 cents in
I have bin makeing VCD and XVCD
1 . for cartoons (dragonball z) i use VCD
2 . for 1/2h - 1h shows (star trek voyager/enterprise)
xvcd 352-480,2200 bit,128kb sound
i must say,that im very happy with the
results,on my 36" tv it is just as good
(or better) as a VHS tape
with all of the plusses that SEFY wrote in his post -
Douglesh, my DVD Player accepts SVCD and also non-standard, but a minimum movie, even a 60min movie on decent SVCD quality is atleast 2 CD's, which makes it not pocket friendly, and CD's may be cheap for you, but they are not for everyone, in Israel CD's costs much more then they do in Israel, and before you suggest shipping, i'll have you know that shipping will cost me more then the CD's themselfs and 90% of all stores don't ship to Israel, so that's it for the CD's for now.
SVCD can takes nearly twice as long to encode then the same movie as a VCD
It maybe easy to encode, but you have less tools for SVCD and those that exist are usually complicated (not all)
As for MPEG2, it's not that easy to get, and playing it back requires a stronger PC then the one needed for VCD
On my TV, which may be crap for you cause you most be loaded, it's only Philips 29", VCD and SVCD look the same and therefor not worth the extra on the SVCD, on the PC is the only place where SVCD seems to "crush" VCD because you can actually notice the resolution diffrence, but NOT on a regular TV.
Regarding DVD Burner, I find it to be not worth it at the moment, as DVD Movies cost around 10-30$ (some more some even less) and DVDR like was said is 15$ and DVDRW is 25$, same or more then buying the real DVD, when the media becomes as cheap as a CDR, then it would be more worth buying it.
Email me for faster replies!
Best Regards,
Sefy Levy,
Certified Computer Technician. -
i have 2 admit after hearing this i think i will get a dvd burner and forgo all the madness.the elite who complain 2 the newbies all the time etc.thr only positive person i've known through all of this is truman,seems like he can still remember his first time burning a vcd and hasn't become so jaded as the rest.after hearing all the plusses that dvdr has i found one in a mag for $503 the panasonic model.i'll wait a few weeks and get the hp.i'm not bitchin about the site i have learned alot and most experiences have been
nice in here.but when was the last time there was a big breakthrough in vcd quality or time 2 convert????.may be time 4 a change. -
bravo, i've never said anything bad ON a DVD Burner, heck, if It was cheaper, i'd propably get one myself, but you wanna know the shocking part ? i'd propably try putting VCD quality Video on it! cause if i'd buy a DVDR media which here costs about 50$, I might as well put a whole series on it and have good use of it!
But instead of copying a DVD movie to a DVDR media, i'd buy the movie, it would be cheaper for me. my point is, some people on the forum think that everyone can buy the media or movie for cheap, so for some it might be worth it, and for others is not, i'm not saying you shouldn't buy, if you think it's good for you, heck, I hope you enjoy it! I really do! but don't call me a fool or an idiot (not you, i'm talking in general) just because I don't think it's worth it.
Email me for faster replies!
Best Regards,
Sefy Levy,
Certified Computer Technician. -
VCD is better than VHS, better if not equal in quality, because each time you play a VCD the quality will *hardly* ever degrade (it will very slightly degrade as a result of the lazer reading it thousands of times and other factors). Even though it does slightly degrade it will not be noticable until decades later. Each time you play a VHS tape the quality of it worsens, as does the quality of a VHS tape just left over time. You definately notice VHS degradation, even over a short time. VCD MAY degrade over huge, vast periods of time and relentless playing, but no way near the extent VHS will. Anyway, you dont have to rewind VCDs and they dont get chewed by players as do VHS tapes
VCD was yesteryears technology and it is true that with todays technology, it shows its age. VCD is a fine format, for WHAT IT IS. However, like all technology is destined, it will be replaced. DVD is an excellent format, I will probably go to DVD recording when the prices are similar to that of CDRW drives and media.
I am glad that people rush to buy the latest hardware like DVD burners, the more they do, the faster they become cheaper and viable for the more patient among us. Unless of course a DVD burner is essential to you, I dont know. What I do know is that next year I will have a DVD burner and £400 change.
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Hey Jason, my VCD looks as good as VHS, plus I can make multi copies and edits on uncompressed AVI with no visible loss of picture quality also, can't even do a second generation pass on VHS without it looking like crap, SVHS is a little better for 2nd forget about a 3rd.
plus SVCD look hell lot better than VHS and just as good as SVHS, DVD no, But I don't copy DVD's I buy them they are cheap enough, cheaper than buying a DVD-R recorder and spending $20 on a 9 gig CD-R.
I put family video's on VCD and SVCD because the quality is better and will always look the same over repeated plays.
Plus I am not here to please you or anyone else on this forum, we are here to help each other and give tips and how maybe to squeeze a little better quality out of these formats.
When the DVD-R recorders are down to $200 and the 9 gig blanks are $5 then I will purchase one but not until then, I will let you and anyone else pay for this technology 1st, I have gotten tired of paying the high prices to have it 1st, let some other people pay for awhile.
I have been editing video's since 1980 and the computer combined with CD-R burning to a SVCD is best format to edit and make your video's, Tape editing is Dead!
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