With all this talk about VCD.....let's just face it...

[bravo]

sorry sefy your cool also.no i didn't think u said anything bad about dvd,i respect your opinion alot because u have alot more knowledge than me on this matter.i just want the extra storage capacity to get the maximum quality on 1 disc.$500.00 is alot but i wont buy xbox or something and it will work out.like i said most of my experiences have been nice in here.i am just hitting a ceiling as far as experimenting with deeper video.

[bravo]

and i will probably put svcd on the disc myself 2 save space,get the most out of the ten dollar disc.

[Whoosh25]

Wow ...I really enjoyed reading all these detailed posts.

Reminds me of talks about LPs and CDs, Beta vs. VHS, or even DAT tapes...LOL

Yep when DVD-R burners and discs come down in price then we will see less and less people using vcds.

But personally for me converting stuff (from DVDs and Cams)to VCDs and SVCDs is radically FUN! It's a hobby! Remember the first successful VCD you ever made?...didn't that feel great?

Anyways that's my two cents...just enjoy the process!

[d4n13l]

I will get a burner when the final format emerges, I dont want to be left pissing in the wind with the digital equivalent of Betamax white elephant. Also, when the price comes down to a realistic level. And not even then until I can use it to copy DVD based games for the PS2/Xbox or copy DVD movies for the price of a few chocolate bars.


BTW, I hope that this site keeps up with the new DVD developments, it seems evolving nicely at the moment. Dare I say that a name change may be in order at some point in the future?
...www.vcdvdhelp.com anyone?

[mt4]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-25 04:53:40, Douglesh wrote:

There is only one DVD Burner here</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

There are 3 currently available (in Oz)

Pioneer A03, Pioneer S201 & Panasonic LF-D311S.
The Panasonic btw is a multifunction dvd-r/dvd-ram
covering the two most popular DVD formats at the moment.

[Anonymous65]

http://www.dvdhelp.com is already online...
As for the formats, it looks like ALL the burners that can burn a DVD-R will play in most DVD players. So, does it matter what the future format will be since the burners can at present burn a DVD-R that is and will be playing in a regular DVD player? Are the blanks for a DVD+R and a DVD-R different? If you have a DVD-R, and the new standard will be DVD+R, what will prevent you from burning more DVD-R's that will continue to play in all DVD players?

[DWC]

Hi,

I think what's happening is that we're in the middle of a transitional period here, the early adaptors have jumped ship and are cutting up dust at everything else, and the old school people are trying to hang on for dear life. Right now there is room for both formats. We'll all be on DVD eventually, and compatibility will be just as good as VCD by then as well.

[Jason A]

Again..my point was wierd to the point of this.......

I see people here complain about the quality of VCD or SVCD..

but then...here...they love it..

Whatever...doesn't matter to me... I did what I needed to make me happy about the quality...

As for people talking about being 1st. etc... well I bet a good portion of you have fairly high end machines...

It's all about what makes you happy !!!

VCD/SVCD did not make me happy.DVD does..

Even on the best (considered the best) MPEG-1 hardware encoder....VCD still looks good...

but I have yet to see a software/hardware solution for under $5000 that will look as good..

I have all the encoders...Ligos,Tmpeg, Cinemacraft, Waveir, Panasonic, Squeeze, Sorenson etc..

and none have come close to the Sony RTE-3000 unit.

So either some of you guys have low standards, or need your eyes checked...

because I noticed that alot of you mentions DV cam to VCD....

Well..why buy digital then??? Why not buy a nice Hi8 Sony etc.. for under $500, and then the difference, you could have gotten a DVD-R....

Again...I'm looking for logic here... "I'm not going to be the 1st. ones" but yet you spend big $$$ on a DVcam and then RAPE it down to VCD level ???

I just don't understand..I took my "old" Sony Hi8 outside and did a 2 minute test...

Took it in...put it on a DVD-RW and played it...It looked AWESOME..I mean a little noise..it's not DV..but close...

Then a look at Fry's...$430 gets you a nice Hi8 camcorder...compaired to $800+ for a nice DV..

Again...where's the logic?

Jason

[vitualis]

You've got a really narrow point of view...

Most people don't just use their PCs for VCD/SVCD creation. They are further used for work and entertainment and this is what justfies their cost.

miniDV: it's called investing in the future. I don't know about where you live, but in Australia, a Hi8 camcorder is not much cheaper than a miniDV one. If I had enough money and desire to consider purchasing a Hi8 camcorder, I would probably spend the few hundred more to get a miniDV one in the knowledge that it would be increasingly useful in the future.

As for DVD-R/W technologies, these are still much too expensive an investment for most people who consider VCD/SVCDs a HOBBY. If recordable DVD equipment and media was comparable in cost to CD-R/W, then MOST if not all people here would get it.

Of course people will complain about the quality of VCD or SVCD when they compare it to DVD. But that does not mean it would justify the average person to go and rush to buy a DVD burner. It is a matter of knowing what you can afford.

Recordable DVD media may be getting cheaper, but in most places, it is still very expensive. Where I live, a DVD-R/W disc will cost as much as a spindle of CD-R media and the DVD-R/W drive can cost more than the entire PC.

Regards.

_________________
Michael Tam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vitualis on 2001-10-26 02:08:24 ]</font>

[holistic]

"" VCD is better than VHS, better if not equal in quality, because each time you play a VCD the quality will *hardly* ever degrade (it will very slightly degrade as a result of the lazer reading it thousands of times and other factors). ""

PARDON !?!?

........lets just say it's the 'other factors'

[Sefy]

This will propably be a first landmark, but I completly agree with vitualis.

You cannot compare VCD to SVCD to DVD, and when all of us are making VCD/SVCD from a DVD, you are forgetting that the DVD itself is not the highest quality, it is being reduced and encoded (compressed!) from a higher quality source!

I'm a 100% sure that if you make a VCD from the same source that the DVD was made, the VCD will look amazing! heck, i've got the last 3 James Bond movies and the playback is smooth! I was shocked! on my 28" TV it looked FAR better then a VHS! it is NOT a DVD Quality, and i've no where said it is! but the quality is stunning for "JUST" a VCD.

[d4n13l]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-26 03:04:47, holistic wrote:
"" VCD is better than VHS, better if not equal in quality, because each time you play a VCD the quality will *hardly* ever degrade (it will very slightly degrade as a result of the lazer reading it thousands of times and other factors). ""

PARDON !?!?

........lets just say it's the 'other factors'
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
I knew at LEAST one person would bring this up . Yeah... digital media does degrade - I am NO WAY going to go into it though. A few months ago this exact topic came up... it went into 3 or 4 pages I think. If you dont want to take my word for it, then just ask vitualis, I remember that he agreed with me back then. "Lazer Rot", I believe, is one phenomonen and the "other factors"? - beleive me, you do not want me to go there, lol.

----------

The fact that DVD looks better than VCD - was this EVER in doubt? What next, a post about how much nore powerful 64 Bit CPU's are compared to 32Bit?

Jason,
You also forget the fact that not everybody has their encoding technique/methods down to perfection. I am quite sure that you will not see many posts from seasoned VCDers asking how to get more out of VCD. I am also quite sure that most people realise the limits of VCD, there is only so much you can do with just over a thousand Kbps and the low res. Fact is that it is good for what it is and nothing more. Just take any comments that it is as good as DVD with a pinch of salt. A lot of people here have neither the need or the money to buy DVD-R hardware, wait until next year, then repost.

Your initial statement for this thread was:
"With all this talk about VCD.... Lets just face it... it sucks!!!".

Then you go on to say:
"It looks good on my 33" TV..not great...but equal or a little better then VHS... "

Ok... so in your vocabulary: "sucks" = "good"?
Strange...
Now, I will remind you of your final words in your last post:
"...where's the logic?"

QED

[hitechjunkie]

whatever makes u happy! that's right!

burning XVCDs to CD-R/RW is really just an inexpensive hobby for me. i pay next to nothing for media (always buy mine at Circuit City with a rebates which occur monthly), burners can be had for about $70-80, and I just recently switched from a dying VHS-C camcorder to a Panasonic PVDV400 (only $466 after price-matching and rebate). DV clips are encoded to 640x480, 2300kbps XVCDs, and DVD movies and Satellite captures are encoded to 352x480 1900kbps XVCDs, which look and play great on my jvc player. i've got no complaints about quality. dvd-r/rw is just not inexpensive enough for me to invest in, yet...

[Thurbs]

Holy Cow what a heated debate....anybody here win the High School Debate State Championship??

Screw technology. I am going back to my old Kodak Super 8. I won't have any problems getting film for it, or getting it developed. After I use the 5 minute reels, I can just run over to the photo shack in the supermarket parking lot, drop it off and come back for it in a week. The movies will look great, the color superb, and knowing that they will last forever suits me.
so to heck with this technology bull krap. I am going back to the old school on ya' all.

[holistic]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-06 18:58:40, Thurbs wrote:
Screw technology. I am going back to my old Kodak Super 8. I won't have any problems getting film for it, or getting it developed. After I use the 5 minute reels, I can just run over to the photo shack in the supermarket parking lot, drop it off and come back for it in a week. The movies will look great, the color superb, and knowing that they will last forever suits me.

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

You can still get super 8 done local... wow !
Best of luck ... Film will NOT last forever.. and start stocking up un projector bulbs !

LASER ROT .......... prove it.

************************************************** **********
the other factors
************************************************** ********

Any oxygen that penetrates to the aluminized layer can permanently damage your CD/DVDs. When oxygen combines with the aluminized layer, it forms aluminum oxide that is transparent and CANNOT reflect the laser beam. The lack of a reflected signal confuses the CD/DVD processor in such way that you may hear distortion or see a degradation of the video image.

The acrylic layer (on the label side) is very thin and any pinholes formed during manufacturing or any scratches in the acrylic can expose the aluminized layer to the damaging effects of oxygen.

DVDs that have read surfaces on both sides are highly unlikely to have this problem, because the aluminized layer is well protected by being sandwiched between two thick polycabonate layers.

[Bluez]

i'm just missing one comment: we all do vcd because it's fun?

hey, not everybody has the money to spend on dvd's, and vcd's provide sufficient quality for home use

[mgruber]

The big problem nowadays is that people think that technology and research is as easy as typing his/her Credit card number...

[fingernailX]

Jason
I'm really sorry you have to watch "only DVD" quality. If you have seen DVHS or HDTV from the satelite then you would know your DVD-R has already been way surpassed in quality. Capture cards run around $300 but the storage equirements are huge. Even converting the ATSC streams to DV format with wrappers and writing to dv camcorders takes 2 tapes for an average movie. The new generation of DVHS vcrs are fully copyprotected, cost around $2000 http://www.jvc.com/featured_product.jsp?modelId=MODL026758, the tapes are only $8 to $10 though. But if you have seen Castaway in HDTV, especially the scene where he's in the rubber boat after the plane crash, you'll see the true difference in resolution and 28 meg bps versus 720 x 480 at 8 meg bps. But since you seem like a 'do anything for quality kinda guy' I'm sure you already have one on order.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fingernailX on 2001-11-26 11:21:41 ]</font>

[tv_archive]

Wow - the heated conversation about "quality"...I'll chime in. I encode DivX, VCD and SVCD from my rapidly disintegrating, oxide-impaired VHS tapes that I've collected over the years. They all please me - for different reasons: DivX stores a long-play, great quality picture which I pass thru my TV card to my television. VCD is terrific for burning episodes of series to share with friends and family (compatible with almost any DVD player). SVCD looks very good and works on my DVD player, so I use that for captures when the VHS source may be making its final play.
There will always be something of higher quality out there, so don't get hooked on the idea that you must have perfection. Here's a thought: how can you achieve the highest quality attainable? Easy...book the cast and crew of your favorite movie/tv show to come to your house and perform in your living room.

Regards,
TVA

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tv_archive on 2001-11-26 12:18:56 ]</font>