4x DL Writing Results

[Tearren]

I found this interesting...

http://www.cdrinfo.com/forum/tm.asp?m=69102&mpage=1&key=&#69102

Tearren

[flaninacupboard]

they seem pretty excited.....

It's not like a massive leap, just a matter of time thing. i'll be excited when buying a DL disc is cheaper than two SL ones.

[The village idiot]

they seem pretty excited.....

It's not like a massive leap, just a matter of time thing. i'll be excited when buying a DL disc is cheaper than two SL ones.

Cheaper? Let's first shoot for same price as 2 - 4GB disks

[flaninacupboard]

my point exactly.

if you don't have enough cash to get a run of 500 or so discs done, then you probably won't want to spend a huge amount on dual layer discs.

Perhaps useful to companies doing large data backups, but if they have more than 4 gigs to back up they probably have more than 8. may as well use a series of SL discs or another format.

[Sam Ontario]

they seem pretty excited.....

It's not like a massive leap, just a matter of time thing. i'll be excited when buying a DL disc is cheaper than two SL ones.

Judging from the present rate of DVD media evolement, it might happen just within a year!

[cd090580]

The burner model is hidden.
Maybe it's a fake

[DVDeeZ]

not sure what all the drama is in this post. There is no drama. The disk was unreadable, so it mine as well of been burned at 16x. Why people get excited over stuff like this is pretty funny. You'd think people would really be excited with the few that have burned DL media SUCCESSFULLY. You know, the DL media the brainsurgeons of the forum said would never exist.

I bought my Dual layer drive a few weeks ago but had no intention of burning a DL disk until the price is around a couple of bucks each. When that happens i'll buy some type of quantity. I may burn a couple at $6 each just for fun but not more then 2.

[flaninacupboard]

You know, the DL media the brainsurgeons of the forum said would never exist.

Probably because when buying their first burner at the cost of $k's they asked "will there ever be dual layer discs?" and got told "no."

Even when i bought mine at ~$300 the official word was "no, never."

[DVDeeZ]

Probably because when buying their first burner at the cost of $k's they asked "will there ever be dual layer discs?" and got told "no."

Even when i bought mine at ~$300 the official word was "no, never."

Oh, that's definitely understandable. The problem is that those aren't the type of people's posts i've real where a select couple of people imparticular who pretty much did nothing but make themselves sound like optical drive engineers on the forum. Those people know who they are. They still post and it's laughable how those engineers haven't even commented on DL or the one or two that have keep coming with crapola in them regarding compatability, etc. I guess that's the only thing they can hang onto now that they look idiotic. It's clear by those posts that those aren't the type of people that were simply misinformed when they bought their first DVD Burner.

These people are the ones that feel the need to make themselves sound like engineers when they really don't have the slightest idea what they're saying. The real funny thing is when all those posts were wasting space on the forum the technology for DL was already being worked on and tested.

But with that being said, i'm really surprised that more people haven't really been hyped with the few people that said they have successfully burned DL media from the Verbatim Solution Kit and it's been compatible in many players burned at 2.4x. That's great news. Noone jumps on those posts but when a disk was said to burn at 4x as opposed to 2.4x and wasn't even readable, everyone says "WHOAAA" what a major breakthrough. Funny, funny stuff.

[flaninacupboard]

i know what you're saying and i know some folks come across a bit strong sometimes. personally i'm not convinced DL will be useful for us video hobbyists. the reflectivity of the first lot of discs were not good, unless they improve drastically it will feel like 2001 all over again, when you'd buy a batch of dvd-rs and hope at least one of your dvd players would play them. for data storage on PC they could be useful - an image of my OS and main programs is probably 6 or 7 gigs, just right. but until the DL discs are as if not more reliable as SL discs i'm not interested. perhpas that's the underlying issue certain third parties were trying to get at

If they do show reliable, widely available and reasonably priced then i'll admit my concerns were wrong and stock up

[naturalzinc]

i really doubt that the 4x burned DL disc is readable

edit: i read this post a few days ago when it was posted. now i see that they posted nero speed results, big surprise, duh!

a "successful burn" operation by the writing program does not, by any means, make the disc readable!

[flaninacupboard]

yeah, princo taught me that!

[disturbed1]

i know what you're saying and i know some folks come across a bit strong sometimes. personally i'm not convinced DL will be useful for us video hobbyists. the reflectivity of the first lot of discs were not good, unless they improve drastically it will feel like 2001 all over again, when you'd buy a batch of dvd-rs and hope at least one of your dvd players would play them. for data storage on PC they could be useful - an image of my OS and main programs is probably 6 or 7 gigs, just right. but until the DL discs are as if not more reliable as SL discs i'm not interested. perhpas that's the underlying issue certain third parties were trying to get at

If they do show reliable, widely available and reasonably priced then i'll admit my concerns were wrong and stock up

I agree.

I'm excited about DL media. But I have 0 hope right now. I'm surprised they even ventured into attempting to make it. Considering the reflectivity is less than RW media, and only 2 of my several (10+) standalones will sort of play RW media.........

I'm glad I bought one of the first Pioneer A03s for almost $1000, and was even happier paying just under $20 for my first few TDK discs.

But, been there, done that, I'm not dumb/rich enough to do it again.

I'm sitting on the sidelines with DL. I'm going to let other people experiment this time, even though I do have a +DL capable burner.

I've read far too many different experiences with the current media. Some "experts" have had almost 0 luck with the media. They have reported that the DVD-ROMs have great trouble reading the media, some did achieve reading the first layer, but not the second, they also had very poor results with stand alone playback. Then there are a couple of users that are claiming 100% sucess. That's not good in my view. The first DVD-R discs had a much better start.

Right now the Verbatim disc are the best quality they can be. Low volume output. Once other companies start making the product, and it becomes another quantity over quality issue, we'll be in the same state that we are currently with SL media. CMC will be the main manufactorer for the Verbatim volume production of +DL media


By the time the media is widely available for a decent price, most of us will be having HD-DVD dreams, if you aren't already.

[lordsmurf]

I asked Pioneer in 2002 if DL would ever happen. I was told the physics/chemistry were impossible. Science apparently changed since then.

I'm as excited as the next person about DL, but I'm not holding my breath either. I hear bad things about reflectivity, which was always a problem of burned media. Permeating multi layers of dye is asking for trouble.

[RottenFoxBreath]

^^ as if they would reveal info like that to mere mortal men.
even the frontline workers are going to be well behind the technical jiggery pokery that will be going on in deepest darkest R'n'D.

[DVDeeZ]

@ flaninacupboard, again, your points are well made and understood. However, there are two completely seperate areas here. One, where one has their "doubts" about the technology and whether it will be useful for the consumers mainly on this board, or two, the person who just reads an article and passes info as if they are the ones in the production of that product. Everyone in this post i'd be willing to bet a lot of money on has never touched a single piece of media with a huge companies testing lab nor has been in the science and mathematics of creating it. That doesn't mean they are completely clueless. What it means is they obviously didn't know what they were talking about when they posted the hoopla that they read.

Because as I said, as they were posting their incorrect, ignorant info, the testing and creation of DL was already being conducted in labs at the very same time. I searched before and saw posts where a few people like lordsmurf said they were told the technology wouldn't be possible. And there's nothing wrong with those posts like that because they aren't knocking it with bogus info that they've read every chance they get. They're just posting what they were told. Big difference in that there you aren't attempting to make yourself sound as more then what you are. And there were a few people that did just that in an absurd number of posts that pertained to DL.

As Rottenfoxbreath said, a company isn't gonna just leak out info on whether DL would be possible or not, especially if they intend on being the first company in hopes to introduce it to the market. There's a tremendous amount of pressure to be the first out with any new technology, especially something like DL.

At this point, that's neither here nor there. I just find it interesting. But back to this post I still think it's crazy to jump through the roof on 4x vs. 2.4x even if it were a legit DL burn that was compatible or not. That's nothing to write home about even if it did work out flawlessly. But this technology is something to write home about especially if more and more people keep having the same results some of the people on this forum are having which is excellent compatibility and flawless burning of their DL media. My hopes are to continue to see those great results and in time have the price continue to drop like with SL media. I know i'm definitely pumped about this technology, that's why I got this DRU-700A as soon as it came out. But i'm no fool and I read like anyone else. I'm still sitting back and waiting on many more performance results as well as the price to be right. Let's hope that happens for all of us.

[lordsmurf]

^^ as if they would reveal info like that to mere mortal men.
even the frontline workers are going to be well behind the technical jiggery pokery that will be going on in deepest darkest R'n'D.

But in this regard, I'm not a mere mortal. I work in news, called them up, told them who I was with, told them the story, and got a quickie interview on the phone. At the time: no deal, not possible.

[DVDeeZ]

But in this regard, I'm not a mere mortal. I work in news, called them up, told them who I was with, told them the story, and got a quickie interview on the phone. At the time: no deal, not possible.

That's even worse, lol. A huge corp. like Pioneer isn't gonna leak info to the media until they are ready to do so. This technology has been worked on for a long time. That's why I wrote what I wrote because it's so intriguing. At the very same time all those posts were loading up saying "it won't happen" "it can't happen" "it'll never happen", it WAS Happening.

[Nilfennasion]

Just because they are working on it does not mean it is going to happen. If I had a dollar for every time I heard of a stunning new invention that has not appeared in the public's hands in the ten years since...

I'm still trying to imagine how any player is going to be able to read two layers of organice dye. I'm also wondering how the format is going to survive if drives that burn DL aren't going to be capable of bitsetting.

[DVDeeZ]

Just because they are working on it does not mean it is going to happen.

no kidding and that just makes my points stronger. If something is "impossible" corps aren't gonna spend the time or effort to work on it. There are plenty of inventions that never make it mainstream but often times that's because they realize the cost of making it work isn't economically feasable for most over the short haul or long haul. If costs can't be cut to make it woth while then unfortunately it is nothing more then an idea. This case is completely different and the facts are that it was possible, is possible and is now introduced into the market with both drives and media.

So you keep thinking about how you can't understand how it will work while more people keep reporting that it not only works but works on all of the standalone players they try it on. I'm sure you'll figure it out soon enough like the others. We'll see what happens 6 months from now, but I'm very confident that the only problems in concern in the upcoming months will be price. The minor issues that some are having now will be corrected with firmware upgrades. It's gonna be fun.

[Nilfennasion]

Well, I have always wondered exactly when a dual-layer or double density recordable would be on the market. I'm just waiting for the smoke to clear in terms of how compatible the players are with the media. I can't get a definitive answer in terms of which players are compatible with which media, so I am not totally behind the format. It's a pretty simple process, really.

After trying without success for ages to make decent backups of titles like The Godfather, I think it is pretty reasonable to want to be sure an 8GB technology is reliable.

[DVDeeZ]

After trying without success for ages to make decent backups of titles like The Godfather, I think it is pretty reasonable to want to be sure an 8GB technology is reliable.

It's definitely reasonable to sit back and wait on the technology before jumping the gun. That's precisely what i'm doing. It's a horse of a different color to knock every single post that refers to DL media like a select few made it a point to do for the last two years or so i've been reading on this very forum. Knocking and bashing and giving every reason why it won't work when they're doing nothing more then plagarizing the maneur they were reading from other so called reputable sites. Those wannabe engineers look real knowledgable now. One of my favorite quotes comes from Jaws and it actually has nothing to do with a shark scene. It's when that arrogant/rich fortune inherited scientist is on the Captains boat and they are fishing and it appears the captain has Jaws or at the least a huge shark. The scientist says it's a minnow or something to that affect and the captain is reeling the line and says oh no, it's something real big, and eventually the fish breaks the thick steel liter on the rod. Only a huge fish could of done that and when the scientist saw it he still didn't have the man in him to admit he was wrong and still tried to have the sack and say it was a small fish when he knew it couldn't of been so he could attempt to save some face.

After the Wire broke the captain went to him "Hooper" was his name and he said don't you tell me my business again. Hooper had the nuts to say "that proves nothing." And the captain said:

it proves that you wealthy college boys don't have the education enough to admit when you're wrong.

The point is that these plagarizing engineers were not only wrong, but dead wrong. But instead of saying they were wrong, they are picking at straws and scraping any kind of negative info against DL so they can "attempt" to save some face should DL falter in any way. Pretty darn sad to say the least.

BTW, when more compatibility is proven and the price becomes right, the Godfather will absolutely be my very first project to back up.

[kenowell]

if anyone follows that forum and kept up with it,, they would know that dl 4x burn was indeed successful and played as well they would aslo know its a liteon drive but model number blanked out

[DVDeeZ]

the 4x burn wasn't successful or readable. Not sure what you are reading. The link at the top of this post will take you to every post in that thread and they all say it was an unreadable coaster which even had nero cdspeed error out when trying to read it.

Here's a quote from the person who did the test.

Emperor wrote:

The burned disc wasn't much usable...