AC3 audio problems...

[chanchan]

I am just having problem after problem. OK, I'm trying to make a DVD of some of my anime shows. I've encoded the avi (DivX 5.0) files using cinemacraft with this guide https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/185077.php and I have my seperate .m2v file and .ac3 files. I ran the .m2v files through the Pulldown GUI and have pretty much done everything according to all the different guides I've read.

My resulting files are as following:
video1.m2v, 716MB, 24min. 23sec., 720X480 video1.ac3 40MB
video2.m2v, 714MB, 24min. 26sec., 720X480 video2.ac3 40MB
video3.m2v, 948MB, 25min. 28sec., 720X480 video3.ac3 39MB
video4.m2v, 953MB, 24min. 30sec., 720X480 video4.ac3 40MB

I plug them into DVDit! 2.5 PE and they upload fine and I add in the audio and set up the menues and everything. I then go Build > Make a DVD Disc. Under the General tab I select my recoder and choose Test and create disc. In the Advanced tab under File System 'Use Joliet' and 'Use long file names' are selected and Temporary Storage 'Use Windows Temporary Directory' is selected. I then choose OK and I get this message, "Your project contains MPEG video that has illegal parameters for DVD. This disc will be playable with PC-DVD players but not in set-top DVD player. Do you wish to continue?". My question is what did I do wrong and what are the illegal parameters that it's talking about? I hope I gave enough information so someone can help me, it would be much appreciated.

[edit] I went ahead and tried to burn it with a RW disc and it gave me the error message, "Build failed: Unknown error (BRFrr,1)".

[Forum Troll]

I tried several times to import pre-existing .ac3 files into PE, and it died everytime. I found the only way to fix it was to convert the .ac3 streams to wav or .mp2, then have the program use its internal Dolby Digital converter to transcode to .ac3.

[Dennis1968]

I also have had build errors, DVDit is really picky when importing files. Makes sure your M2Va have EXACTLY the same internal and external parameters. IE same codec, same frame rate, same GOP etc. also the same rule applies to the audio.

DVDit can also give a build error if you "preview" your project. Try building a folder not make disc. and then burn using an external program.

YOu can also try using TMPGEnc Plus to convert your AVI files to M2V and MPA then convert your MPA to AC3.

[chanchan]

Thanks for ya'lls input.

I think I've found my problem. In the CCE settings for the multi-VBR I put the max bitrate at 9000 but when I ran two of the videos through bitrate viewer they had a peak bitrate of 10829.

I'm gonna try setting it at 8000 for the max and see if that doesn't help, but if not then I'm just gonna go back to TMPGEnc.

[Dennis1968]

You have a good angle. Remember current DVD-Video format is a MAX of 10 megs per second bitrate.

[chanchan]

OK, I put the settings for CCE SP multi-VBR as min=2000 avg=5230 max=8000. After re-encoding the two videos and running them through bitrate viewr they peak out at 9886.

I'm pretty positive now that this is what's causing me the problem with DVDit!, but can't understand why CCE SP when set to 8000 for max bitrate it gives me video that goes past 9800.

Has anyone else had these kinda problems with bitrate using CCE SP? I want to use CCE SP cause I do notice better quality than TMPGEnc, but am I going to have to set it at around 7000 just to get the bitrate to be compliant with DVD.

[chanchan]

To revive an old post...

Has anyone else experienced these problems with CCE SP?!? Why when I set the limit of the multi-VBR to max=7500 does it encode the video to over 9800kbps. Isn't that the whole purpose of having a max bitrate so it doesn't exceed it.

I've re-installed the program and still am having problems with it... I'd be happy to hear if just one other person has had this similiar problem so I know it's not just me.

[pijetro]

Bitrate spikes happen occassionally.
What paramaters are you using within CCE??
Have u tried another authouring app. in the meanwhile?
What do u use for .AC3 encoding??
Have you tried a .WAV or .MP2 stream for audio instead of .AC3??

[BJ_M]

which version of cce are you using ? I know that CQ set to 1 will cause cce to go aff the map at times (15,000 peak one time) in some versions even when max is set to 8000

[chanchan]

I'm using CCE SP 2.67, for AC3 encoding I'm using AC3Machine v0.41.

CCE is set to ES multi-pass VBR (2 pass)
bitrate: avg:5300 min:2000 max:7000, 7500, 8000, 9000 (tried all 4 and end result is still 9800 on all tries).

pijetro, I could understand the occasional spike, but this is happening every time I encode. I have used TMPGenc and it works but like I said I do like the quality of CCE that's why I'm trying to figure this out so I can keep using it. I used to use WAV for my audio but it takes up too much space so that's why I changed to AC3, but I've never used mp2.

I know that CQ set to 1 will cause cce to go aff the map

I'm not sure I know what your talking about there.

[pijetro]

bitrate: avg:5300 min:2000 max:7000, 7500, 8000, 9000

Drop your min to 300.
Uncheck your "Make DVD compliant".
THere's a bunch of issues with your .AC3, but one step at a time....

[adam]

Are you saying that the actual bitrate in your bitrate curve spikes above your set max? I have absolutely never seen CCE do this with multipass encoding. My guess is that you are just looking at the nominal bitrate as listed in BitrateViewer. This really has nothing to do with your actual bitrate, its just a flag set in your stream. As pijetro stated, you should not use the DVD compliant option in CCE. Among other things, it tags the nominal bitrate as being 9800kbits regardless of what your actual max bitrate reaches, and this can cause problems in some dvd authoring programs. I also agree that you should lower your min bitrate setting much lower. 0-300 sounds good to me. Raising the min bitrate only decreases quality arbitrarily. You shouldn't do this unless you run into specific hardware problems with very low bitrate video, which very rarely ever happens.

BJ_M was referring to the 1-pass VBR setting in CCE. I guess it doesn't adhere to your set max values in this encode mode as well. I didn't know that.

[chanchan]

adam, I haven't run these new ones through bitrate viewer yet, but on the original ones when I ran it through them I was looking at Current, Peak, and Average and it was in the Peak box that it showed over 9800. Is that not the place I should be checking? On these new ones I just put it in TMPGenc DVD author to test it and when I hit output it said it was over the upper limit for a DVD. So I think ya'll are right and it is just that I hade make DVD compliant checked on these.

pijetro, What exactly are the issues with my AC3?

And, I have a new problem now though... Whenever I open CCE SP It pops up in the task bar like it is runnig (says so in task manager) but nothing opens up. I've deleted it and reinstalled it but still get the same problem. I know I'm hopeless, but ya'll really seem to know what ya'll are doing.

[adam]

Well, that is how you would check max bitrate. Maybe checking the DVD compliant box not only sets the nominal bitrate to 9800kbits, but somehow screws with your max bitrate setting as well. I honestly don't know but what I do know is that, oddly enough, if you want dvd compliant files you probably should avoid the dvd compliant option. Its really not necessary and causes problems with authoring packages. Just give it a shot with this option unchecked and I'd be willing to bet that at least this problem will go away.

As for CCE not responding correctly now, I have no idea what could be doing that. Might want to talk to Custom Technology about that one. I guess you could uninstall and then go through the registry to make sure you delete everything before reinstalling again. CCE's keys have a habit of being persistent sometimes.

[chanchan]

Ok, I've got it working again now. Re-cleaned out the registry and I guess it got everything this time (I think I cleaned it before I uninstalled it last time... ). Just to be on the safe side, here are the settings I am going to use for my next go:







Does everything look alright there?

[BJ_M]

is this a re-encode of a dvd ? if so:

lum. level to 0-255

turn off all filters and set quantizer level to 30

scanning order to zigzag

progressive frame flag - on

max bit rate to 8500 (just a suggestion)

3 pass

dont know what matrix you used .....

add seq end code

are you sure aspect is 4:3 on original ?

[BJ_M]

looks like you may be encoding animation ?

use cg smooth matrix

[chanchan]

BJ_M I am encoding some anime's onto DVD so would I use the same settings you listed?

[duhmez]

Anoter note on the bizarre behavior of the dv compliant checkbox.

I was encoding 352,480 video and had dvd compliance checked. It added black borders until i twas 720x480 and ruined the video. Won't make that mistake again. (This was cce SP 250)

CCE makes me laugh. If you want dvd compliance, UNCHECK dvd ompliat. If you want upper field first video, UNCHECK uper field first.
Was this program written by monkeys?

[BJ_M]

BJ_M I am encoding some anime's onto DVD so would I use the same settings you listed?

yes

[chanchan]

pijetro, adam, BJ_M Thanks for all the help you guys gave me. I've read a lot of different tutorial's on using CCE for animation and they never quite gave the same settings so this really helped me a bunch.

[BJ_M]

pijetro, adam, BJ_M Thanks for all the help you guys gave me. I've read a lot of different tutorial's on using CCE for animation and they never quite gave the same settings so this really helped me a bunch.

there is no 100% correct answer for every type of file -- i just am posting what would work for me .. others will still (sure as the sun will rise) have other settings they use ...

what you have there is fairly typical settings for animation -- the quantizer level can go some lower for lower bit rate and/or live (interlaced) material

[chanchan]

OK... I've got another problem I'm hoping I can get some help with (I swear I'm gonna get this down perfect).

The first batch of files I encoded, from my first post, I was able to burn to DVD and play fine in my standalone player. These new files that I've encoded when I try to burn the .m2v and .ac3 files to DVD (using both DVDit! and TDA) there is no audio and the playback is going at about 2x speed. I've tried playing it on a Toshiba, Apex, and Xbox and I get the same results each time. I then tried burning again, this time .m2v and .wav and the resulting DVD played fine with audio in all players. pijetro commented that I had issues with my .ac3, but I'm creating them the same way that I did the first DVD that worked... so I'm not quite sure what my problem is. I'll list the steps that I'm going through trying to create this DVD.

1. Load original .avi into vdub and extract audio and video into seperate files.

2. Load video only .avi into FitCD v1.1.2 and create script.

3. Load script into CCE and encode using the settings BJ_M provided.

4. Run encoded .m2v through PulDownBatchFE.

5. Run .wav through AC3 Machine.

6. Load into authoring software (either DVDit! or TDA) and burn.

Anyone have any ideas what I could be doing wrong?

[pijetro]

Why don't you try Besweet, rather than .AC3 machine. The latter is a good .AC3 to .AC3 tool, whereas i prefer to use Besweet for .WAV to .AC3.

Unless you have commercially made software to do proper .AC3 encoding (ie software that produces legal Dolby Digital), your .AC3 stream is not totally compliant.
Mind you, I haven't run across a player that didn't refuse it though..
But i'm using DVDLab, which was a Godsend for us Besweet users...

I'm puzzled...

[chanchan]

I went ahead and used Besweet to make my .ac3 (I think I'm gonna stick with using this) but when I authored the DVD, it played at normal speed but still no audio.

I also ran the .ac3 files through Besliced to see if that would work and re-authored them but they still played with no audio.

I'm at a lose on why this is happening. Could it be the settings I encoded the video with on CCE? The first batch of files (using my old settings with DVD video compliant unchecked) burned succesfully to DVD. Is it possible that when I turned on 'progressive frame flag' and changed the scanning order to 'zigzag' it's no longer accepting the audio when I burn (these are the only settings that I see were really changed)? I would test this theory and re-encode everything and re-burn (yet again), but it's starting to take too much time and I'm hoping it's not the settings (since they seem to be good for encoding animation).

[BJ_M]

did you use 48khz sample rate ?

[chanchan]

The original file was 48khz.

[BJ_M]

yes- but make sure you didnt check off - downsample

[chanchan]

Ugh... I am starting to get so confused. The tutorial I read told me to check downsample (I kinda wondered about that). I'll have to retry all this without checking that later on tonight. I'll post back with my results.

[BJ_M]

tutorials sometimes have errors .. it has been known to happen ..