Trouble with a PGC in IfoEdit

[Jackinbox]

I'm having trouble with a PGC on a DVD I'm attempting to compile. I bought the Japanese version of KILL BILL from Japan since it is uncut. It doesn't have English subs during the Japanese dialogue but it does have an optional English sub track which covers all the dialogue throughout the film. I'm attempting to create a backup with a sub track that subs only the Japanese dialogue. I followed the posted guide "How to add subtitles to a DVD".

So far, here's what I've done:

1) Ripped the DVD with DVD Shrink in the Re-author mode, taking only the film, the English DD 5.1 track and leaving everything else off.

2) I ripped the English sub track with Subrip, deleted all the subs except those during the Japanese dialogue

3) I concerted the .srt file to .sup using SRT2SUP. I used the "Global" setup and set the font and colors.

4) I demuxed the original m2v and ac3 streams with VOBEdit.

5) I reauthored with IFO Edit using my demuxed m2v, ac3, and my new .sup file. I made the .txt file for the cells using the "Save Cell Times" feature.

6) I changed the sub colors in IFO edit to the hex settings from SRT2SUP.

Everything seemed to go as planed. I loaded my new files up on Power DVD. The subs seemed to be perfect. They were in sync, and in the correct font and everything! I was pleased.

The only problem is that my film is now 30 minutes shorter! In addition, the chapters are all out of place and there was around 34 of them. To fix this, I re-did everything again, and re-did the cell times to coincide with the 24 chapters. Now my film has 19 chapters and is still 30 minutes short. I'm not sure how it happened or how to fix any of this. I think it has something to do with the cell times but I'm still confused as to how this happened.


Here's the PGC from the original rip:

PGC_1 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 1] [01:51:39.18 / 30 fps] (Programs: 24) (Cells: 40) (uses VOB-IDs: 1,2)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/ 1] : time: 00:00:40.14 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:00:40.14] [Frames: 1214]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id: 1/ 2] : time: 00:01:47.15 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:02:27.29] [Frames: 4439]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] [V/C Id: 1/ 3] : time: 00:02:40.00 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:05:07.29] [Frames: 9239]
[Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 04] [V/C Id: 1/ 4] : time: 00:00:38.20 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:05:46.19] [Frames: 10399]
[Cell 05] [V/C Id: 1/ 5] : time: 00:01:50.11 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:07:37.00] [Frames: 13710]
[Cell 06] [V/C Id: 1/ 6] : time: 00:02:12.24 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:09:49.24] [Frames: 17694]
[Ch 05] [Pg 05] [Cell 07] [V/C Id: 1/ 7] : time: 00:03:34.01 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:13:23.25] [Frames: 24115]
[Cell 08] [V/C Id: 1/ 8] : time: 00:00:30.15 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:13:54.10] [Frames: 25030]
[Cell 09] [V/C Id: 1/ 9] : time: 00:02:15.20 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:16:10.00] [Frames: 29100]
[Ch 06] [Pg 06] [Cell 10] [V/C Id: 1/10] : time: 00:09:02.14 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:25:12.14] [Frames: 45374] [Ch 07] [Pg 07] [Cell 11] [V/C Id: 1/11] : time: 00:09:00.00 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:34:12.14] [Frames: 61574]
[Ch 08] [Pg 08] [Cell 12] [V/C Id: 1/12] : time: 00:09:50.10 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:44:02.24] [Frames: 79284]
[Cell 13] [V/C Id: 1/13] : time: 00:00:23.11 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:44:26.05] [Frames: 79985]
[Cell 14] [V/C Id: 1/14] : time: 00:00:57.24 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:45:23.29] [Frames: 81719]
[Ch 09] [Pg 09] [Cell 15] [V/C Id: 1/15] : time: 00:05:28.03 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:50:52.02] [Frames: 91562]
[Ch 10] [Pg 10] [Cell 16] [V/C Id: 2/ 1] : time: 00:05:45.00 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:56:37.02] [Frames: 101912]
[Ch 11] [Pg 11] [Cell 17] [V/C Id: 2/ 2] : time: 00:02:24.00 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:59:01.02] [Frames: 106232]
[Ch 12] [Pg 12] [Cell 18] [V/C Id: 2/ 3] : time: 00:05:55.03 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:04:56.05] [Frames: 116885]
[Ch 13] [Pg 13] [Cell 19] [V/C Id: 2/ 4] : time: 00:02:11.27 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:07:08.02] [Frames: 120842]
[Ch 14] [Pg 14] [Cell 20] [V/C Id: 2/ 5] : time: 00:02:26.01 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:09:34.03] [Frames: 125223]
[Ch 15] [Pg 15] [Cell 21] [V/C Id: 2/ 6] : time: 00:03:58.19 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:13:32.22] [Frames: 132382]
[Ch 16] [Pg 16] [Cell 22] [V/C Id: 2/ 7] : time: 00:02:09.20 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:15:42.12] [Frames: 136272]
[Cell 23] [V/C Id: 2/ 8] : time: 00:01:47.06 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:17:29.18] [Frames: 139488]
[Cell 24] [V/C Id: 2/ 9] : time: 00:00:04.14 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:17:34.02] [Frames: 139622]
[Ch 17] [Pg 17] [Cell 25] [V/C Id: 2/10] : time: 00:00:08.21 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:17:42.23] [Frames: 139883]
[Cell 26] [V/C Id: 2/11] : time: 00:03:15.19 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:20:58.12] [Frames: 145752]
[Cell 27] [V/C Id: 2/12] : time: 00:01:04.06 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:22:02.18] [Frames: 147678]
[Ch 18] [Pg 18] [Cell 28] [V/C Id: 2/13] : time: 00:00:28.24 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:22:31.12] [Frames: 148542]
[Cell 29] [V/C Id: 2/14] : time: 00:06:00.11 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:28:31.23] [Frames: 159353]
[Cell 30] [V/C Id: 2/15] : time: 00:00:34.14 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:29:06.07] [Frames: 160387]
[Ch 19] [Pg 19] [Cell 31] [V/C Id: 2/16] : time: 00:00:07.06 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:29:13.13] [Frames: 160603]
[Cell 32] [V/C Id: 2/17] : time: 00:00:37.14 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:29:50.27] [Frames: 161727]
[Cell 33] [V/C Id: 2/18] : time: 00:00:53.20 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:30:44.17] [Frames: 163337]
[Ch 20] [Pg 20] [Cell 34] [V/C Id: 2/19] : time: 00:01:48.26 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:32:33.13] [Frames: 166603]
[Cell 35] [V/C Id: 2/20] : time: 00:03:41.20 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:36:15.03] [Frames: 173253]
[Ch 21] [Pg 21] [Cell 36] [V/C Id: 2/21] : time: 00:02:20.00 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:38:35.03] [Frames: 177453]
[Cell 37] [V/C Id: 2/22] : time: 00:00:48.25 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:39:23.28] [Frames: 178918]
[Ch 22] [Pg 22] [Cell 38] [V/C Id: 2/23] : time: 00:03:19.04 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:42:43.02] [Frames: 184892]
[Ch 23] [Pg 23] [Cell 39] [V/C Id: 2/24] : time: 00:01:33.00 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:44:16.02] [Frames: 187682]
[Ch 24] [Pg 24] [Cell 40] [V/C Id: 2/25] : time: 00:07:23.16 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:51:39.18] [Frames: 200988]


Here is the PGC from the IFOEdit-authored movie:

PGC_1 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 1] [01:29:57.07 / 30 fps] (Programs: 19) (Cells: 19) (uses VOB-IDs: 1)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/ 1] : time: 00:00:40.14 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:00:40.14] [Frames: 1214]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id: 1/ 2] : time: 00:01:47.20 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:02:28.04] [Frames: 4444]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] [V/C Id: 1/ 3] : time: 00:02:39.26 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:05:08.00] [Frames: 9240]
[Ch 04] [Pg 04] [Cell 04] [V/C Id: 1/ 4] : time: 00:00:38.26 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:05:46.26] [Frames: 10406]
[Ch 05] [Pg 05] [Cell 05] [V/C Id: 1/ 5] : time: 00:07:37.07 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:13:24.03] [Frames: 24123]
[Ch 06] [Pg 06] [Cell 06] [V/C Id: 1/ 6] : time: 00:11:48.12 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:25:12.15] [Frames: 45375]
[Ch 07] [Pg 07] [Cell 07] [V/C Id: 1/ 7] : time: 00:09:00.01 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:34:12.16] [Frames: 61576]
[Ch 08] [Pg 08] [Cell 08] [V/C Id: 1/ 8] : time: 00:09:50.15 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:44:03.01] [Frames: 79291]
[Ch 09] [Pg 09] [Cell 09] [V/C Id: 1/ 9] : time: 00:06:49.10 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:50:52.11] [Frames: 91571]
[Ch 10] [Pg 10] [Cell 10] [V/C Id: 1/10] : time: 00:05:44.27 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:56:37.08] [Frames: 101918]
[Ch 11] [Pg 11] [Cell 11] [V/C Id: 1/11] : time: 00:02:24.02 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:59:01.10] [Frames: 106240]
[Ch 12] [Pg 12] [Cell 12] [V/C Id: 1/12] : time: 00:05:55.04 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:04:56.14] [Frames: 116894]
[Ch 13] [Pg 13] [Cell 13] [V/C Id: 1/13] : time: 00:02:11.26 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:07:08.10] [Frames: 120850]
[Ch 14] [Pg 14] [Cell 14] [V/C Id: 1/14] : time: 00:02:26.01 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:09:34.11] [Frames: 125231]
[Ch 15] [Pg 15] [Cell 15] [V/C Id: 1/15] : time: 00:03:58.12 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:13:32.23] [Frames: 132383]
[Ch 16] [Pg 16] [Cell 16] [V/C Id: 1/16] : time: 00:02:09.24 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:15:42.17] [Frames: 136277]
[Ch 17] [Pg 17] [Cell 17] [V/C Id: 1/17] : time: 00:02:00.08 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:17:42.25] [Frames: 139885]
[Ch 18] [Pg 18] [Cell 18] [V/C Id: 1/18] : time: 00:04:48.27 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:22:31.22] [Frames: 148552]
[Ch 19] [Pg 19] [Cell 19] [V/C Id: 1/19] : time: 00:07:25.15 / 30 fps [Pos: 01:29:57.07] [Frames: 161917]


I've read through all the guides and searched all over but was unable to find out what my problem is.

Anyone have any ideas for a fix?

Thanks!

[petar]

From what you've posted it seems that your movie is shorter, no matter the chapters (if you look at the last cell position the second movie is about 20 something min shorter). Right after demuxing did you try playing the m2v file? If so, how long was it? If it was shorter then you have a problem with the demuxing. If it was OK then you have a problem with the authoring (muxing).

How is the movie shorter? Is the end chopped off or the movie plays faster?

[Jackinbox]

The weird thing is that the M2v and AC3 files add up to about the same as the original rip (4.1 gig). My new VOB's also add up to about 4.1 gig. So I have to think the entire movie is there. The end credits are there and it seems like the entire movie is there when I play it back (although I'm not 100% sure since I've only seen the film once, I don't have every scene memorized). Now, I think maybe it's a timecode issue? I wouldn't even begin to know how to fix that. I don't know if this happened during Demuxing or during Authoring. Is there any way to make the Program Chain the same as my original? The only difference is the added subtitle.

Thanks!

[petar]

Yeah it could be a timecode issue. You can rewrite the GOP timecode with something like DVD-Lab.
Don't worry about recreating the original PGC. It would be a complicated process, you need a very flexible tool (like the all too expensive Scenarist) and it's not necessary. The original has more cells than chapters because commercial movies get encoded in parts. You have your m2v all in one piece.

[Jackinbox]

The original has more cells than chapters because commercial movies get encoded in parts. You have your m2v all in one piece.

OK. But wouldn't the demuxed m2v be identical to what's on my original Rip from DVD Shrink, or does VOBedit combine everything?

I used this guide here:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/197950.php

There was no mention of this in there, so that's what made me think something went wrong either in the Demuxing process or in the Authoring.

I'll have to do some more playing around with this to see what I can come up with. I've never used DVD-Lab before, but I'll try it and see what I can come up with.

[petar]

Unless you select split by vob-id Vobedit will demux the whole video in one file. Generally a different vob-id is a different video in which case you'd want to split it but in your case it's the layer break so you don't need to.

You don't need to know much about DVD-Lab to re-write the timecode. Just import the video and select rewrite GOP timecode from the tools menu. May not be that but it's worth the try.

[Jackinbox]

Petar,

Just an update here. IFOEdit just will not work with this title for whatever reason. I've tried numerous different things and it always creates a running time of 1:29 instead of 1:51. Even when I re-did the GOP Timecode on the m2v file, it still ended up at 1:29 with IFOEdit. So, I decided to go the DVD-Lab Pro route. Almost everything with that was perfect, except the subs are slightly out of sync. They gradually get worse as the film goes on. I've done some searching on this and it appears to be a "Drop Frame" issue. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if this is fixable or if I need to find another authoring tool. The subs were perfectly in sync when I used IFO Edit.

I appreciate all your input so far. Any other ideas?

[Jackinbox]

I think I may have found a workable fix. Apparently, IFOEdit doesn't work well with NTSC as far as the authoring mode. I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned more. I was digging through several forums and found this thread. Apparently it has something to with RFF (I'm not sure exactly what this is).

Here's some of the key info:

IFOEdit can extract the chapters, but it does it wrong, it assumes every cell is a chapter. This is not the case (i.e. half way through matrix reloaded there are two cells to one chapter). Hence you get more chapters with IFOEdit.

Remember that ReJig can extract the ChapterList file too, from the IFO Mode you can load an IFO and then select Export to get a chapter list file (not a Cell file like IFOEdit does (which is wrong))...

Anway, I'm off to try Rejig.

[petar]

DVD-Lab Pro is still in development so maybe that's why you're getting this problem. It's a good tool for what you want to do so if you can't fix this with any other tool, wait for the next release.

As for IfoEdit, I don't know whether it has problems with NTSC (I use PAL).
As for the chapters, it's not that it extracts them wrong. The article you're quoting is probably regarding IfoEdit's ability to create IFO files if you only have the VOBs. In that case it gives you the option to put one chapter per cell but that's the best it can do. The chapter points are stored in the IFO file so if you don't have it and IfoEdit is trying to create one for you, putting one chapter per cell is the only logical thing it can do. When you author you final DVD, no matter what tool you use, you'll have one chapter per cell. Remember what I mentioned before, your m2v is one file only. There's no reason for the authoring tool to split it in more cells than chapters, unless you specifically want so and the tool is flexible enough to allow this.

A chapter list is just a bunch of timecodes in a text file. Many tools can extract this from an IFO file. Never tried ReJig but one that has always worked for me is ChapterXtractor (or a pen and paper).

[pcexpress-guy]

Btw, what is GOP time code? Does it exist in both audio & video files? I am having similar issue (kinda)... like to explore this.

Thanks!

[petar]

It's an embedded "clock" into the video. It's not compulsory though. AC3 can also have a timestamp. PCM and MPEG audio no.

[pcexpress-guy]

Btw, by saying it is NOT "compulsory." Do you mean some videos/audio streams may have timestamp and others may not and still be compliant?

I think I figured out how things went south for me. I combined several MPEG2 videos in a single VTS. Now the time stamp is messed. When I load the file into dvd-lab, it tells me the file is 41 seconds. When I correct GOP timestamp as suggested, the video is now 24min30 seconds. (The way it should be more or less.)

The "less" part is that the audio gets out of sync somewhere in the middle of the re-combined video. (I don't have the seperate videos anymore.)

Thanks for the ideas!

[petar]

Yes, not having a timestamp is not a problem. Having a wrong one is.

[pcexpress-guy]

Are there any advantages in having a time stamp? What will it do for me, if I have it in a file?

Is there a simple tool which will remove a time stamp?

Also did you say if there are both timestamps in audio and video files? (or could be?)

Thanks!

[petar]

You remind me of my daughter. Always one more question .

Are there any advantages in having a time stamp? What will it do for me, if I have it in a file?

The timestamp allows the application using the file to read the time more accurately, for whatever it is using it (a player to play it, an authoring tool to set chapters, etc.). That's not to say that without a timestamp it can't be done, it's just that it's more accurate.

Is there a simple tool which will remove a time stamp?

Why would you want to do this? If it's wrong you can fix it. A GOP timecode is a reference rather than absolute value hence when you cut/merge it gets messed up. But there are tools to rewrite it (like DVD-Lab).

Also did you say if there are both timestamps in audio and video files? (or could be?)

Don't understand what do you mean. MPEG video has its own timestamp called GOP timecode and is built into the GOP header. AC3 is the only audio format that can have a timestamp.

[pcexpress-guy]

Hi Dad

Don't understand what do you mean. MPEG video has its own timestamp called GOP timecode and is built into the GOP header. AC3 is the only audio format that can have a timestamp.

Give yourself more credit, you know my question better then I do. So mp2 audio file does not have a time stamp, just AC3. Wave is just audio, no time reference. I think you answered that.

but I don't want to let you down, let me think of another question. Seriously, the business about removing a time code in the mp2 file was an idea to help dvdlab (it may not need the help). Even though DvdLab was able to find and fix the file (mostly) the audio is off and I don't think it is a simple matter of audio offset (there were about 24 short videos, I bet now with different specs or something)... so I was thinking, maybe the tools would work better, if I removed the GOP stamp, and then have it start from scratch writing the time stamp fresh with no previous reference. Maybe the old GOP is messing the New GOP up somehow? (Perhaps Dvdlab creates a new one without "looking" at the current one?Just a thought.)

Curious that in TDA, where there are usually clip breaks where you can insert chapters... now chapters can only fit within the clip picture? follow? doesn't really matter, just know that TDA, is acting crazy with this crazy file.

Hey Thanks Petar!

question: