Good card for tv and capture?

[rdfarr]

I want to make my computer into a digital VCR, and also convert my old analog camcorder tapes into digital format for burning to DVD or VCD. Also would like better video out since I now have on-board video using shared memory. I'm looking at the ATI All-In-Wonder VE card that is less than $100. I have a new E-machine (celeron 2.6) with only PCI slots available. Is there a better choice in cards for these jobs for about the same money?

[Zetti]

Pinnacle PCTV Deluxe

[rcb]

canopus advc 100

[ns]

Mmmm.... how do I put this as tactfully as possible.
DO NOT, AT ANY PRICE, BUY AN ATI ALL-IN-WONDER CARD!!!!!
Now, let me explain.
I have owned 2, yes, 2 ATI ALL-IN-WONDER cards and had nothing but trouble with them. I know, I know, why on earth if I had trouble with one did I buy a second one. Well, the simple answer is, I'm not real smart. I had assumed that enough time had elapsed since my first one that SURELY ATI would have fixed the bugs.
I was soooooo wrong.
First of all, let me say that ATI "TECH SUPPORT" is non-existent.
I could handle a few bugs in the software or hardware if there were someone you could email or call to help you out. No. There is NO-ONE at ATI that has a clue about their own products so IF you buy an ATI product YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN!!!!
If it weren't for boards and forums like this one I would have been lost a long time ago. BUT it has still been a hassle.
Secondly, ATI has NOT fixed the bugs in their drivers nor their hardware. I hold my breath every time I try to CAPTURE a video just waiting for it to crash my system, which it does a lot (Athlon XP 2800+, 512 Ram, 160 Gig WD harddrive which SHOULD be adequate for just about anything).
The main reason I bought the ATI card was to be able to move my home movies from VHS to DVD. I get everything set up, put the tape in the machine, set the ATI Capture to "Composite" input and VIOLA!, I am capturing a wavy, garbled picture. Absolutely useless. Would you like to read some of the responses I got from ATI. I've saved every one of them. It's good for a laugh. I even snail-mailed the President of ATI. Got nothing.
Trust me, you DON'T want an ATI product.
I'm sorry if I got carried away but when I read your post it just opened old wounds. If you would like to hear some more of my adventures in ATI LAND e-mail me.
NS
nealsanders@aol.com

[Jayhawk]

I use the Hauppage PVR250 to capture TV and VCR tapes to Mpg and then onto DVD. The nice thing about the PVR250 is that it has it's own MPEG Encoder onboard so it doesn't need a software encoder running in your machine (and sucking up cpu cycles, memory). As far as I know it's one of the very few inexpensive cards with a hardware encoder.

The file are 100% DVD compliant and feed right into MovieFactory, MPEG-VCR, etc. You have complete control over bitrate and resolution. It has a good TV Scheduling progam and a good capture program. The included editor is junk but you can't have everything.

Usually it's $150 MSRP mut I've seen it recently at CompUSA for $100. Highly recommended.

[teegee420]

I own an ATI AIW 7500(AGP not PCI) and it's probably the best hardware investment I ever made. I highly recommend getting an AIW.

[ns]

Well, there ya go rdfarr.

If I were you I'd take the advice from the person that uses a 'Southpark' picture for their username and lives in Southern California, doesn't say whether they use it for capturing 320x240 avi's at 800kbs or 720x480 mpeg2's at 8000kbs, and whether or not they have ever had to deal with ATI's non-existent 'tech support'.

I'll tell ya what rdfarr. Shell out your hard-earned money for a AIW and then when it doesn't work see if teegee420 will give you your money back. Sound like a good deal teegee420?

Just as a side note, don't take my word for it, do a 'Google' search on the AIW. The horror stories outnumber the teegee240 braindeads about 4 to 1.

Do we really need a picture of a little Japanese girl swirling a chain around on a forum about TV capture cards?

NS

[johns0]

I would trust teegee420`s opinion on aiw,other people go by hearsay,he actually owns an aiw ati card.

[teegee420]

If it makes you feel better about yourself to make personal attacks on me then go right ahead. I'm not the one who had a problem getting my card to work.

[sacajaweeda]

You don't always get what you pay for with this stuff. Especially people just starting out and/or don't really know what they're doing. Money spent on the 100-200 dollar cards is money wasted in most cases. I get as good (or better) results with them 10-20 dollar cheap-o cards with the BT chipsets that can be found on eBay.

MY $.02

[dwisniski]

Hauppauge Win-TV FM. I've had this card for two years now, I capture at 640x480 with Huffy codec around 7000kb on average, never had a problem, low frame loss, great quality. Did the whole original Star Wars trilogy, and the DVD's look great. I capture sound through my computer's sound card, as the Win-TV card only captures in mono.

[Zetti]

Canopus ADVC-100 is certainly the best piece of stuff that has ever been made on Earth, but if the guy wants a PVR function, it isn't indicated;

I have an AiW card, my advice is : HW is good, SW is HORRIBLE, as horrible as it gets;

If you buy it, make sure you'll have extra budget to buy decent sw from third Companies (WinDVR is great);

ATI MMC stands, by far, as the worst sw that has ever been written on Earth, don't even install it , ATI doesn't make it work, I had several replies from their technical suport (as hard as this is to believe ), after the 100th time, they accused me to be a liar and that I was "creating" a problem;

Go and figure out something else, running a TV tuner on the VCR and making it through the ADVC-100 seems nice;

Apart from that, Pinnacle PCTV Deluxe is OK, get Movie Mill sw;

Zetti

[hudsonf]

ns; sorry to hear you had bad experiences with you ATI cards. I have a ATI AIW Radeon 8500 card and it works great. I would recommend the ATI cards to anyone. With the settings from lordsmurf I get excellent mpeg2 captures. If you still have the card maybe we can help you set it up.

[Barnabas]

Best HARDWARE encoding REAL-TIME capture card for the money is the Hauppauge PVR-250.

[tigerman8u]

I have the AIW 9000 pro. This is my 3rd AIW. I agree tech support is lacking to say the least and setting up the hardware and software can be a nightmare at times. But once set up properly the results are excellent. I've captured to uncompressed avi, mpeg1/2 and 1/2 D1. Real time capture at full dvd resolution IMO is as good as the original source. No need to waste time capturing to uncompressed avi and encoding with an external encoder. Video card, tv out, and video capture hard to beat if you need all three. I'd go for it, you won't be disappointed. Read more here www.lordsmurf.com

[hudsonf]

ATI's hardware and software can be a pain to install and setup correctly but with a little work and help from people on this forum it can be done. I wouldn't trade my ATI card for any other card. I have tried other capture programs and always return to MMC. I'm using MMC 8.9 and it does everything I need without any problems. Forgot to add; don't use MMC's presets use the settings on lordsmurf's page.

[lordsmurf]

NS, I don't know what the heck you're talking about. In fact, all you've done is griped, never once made a solid complaint about a specific problem. Installation can be a pain, but not always. You probably have some cheapo VIA chipset that conflicts. Have to have patience.

Zetti, I believe your sole complaints were directed at your own AMD VIA system choking on timer functions. Correct me if I'm wrong. Don't torpedo the software because of one bad flaw on a known conflicting system.

That aside, an ATI ALL IN WONDER card is an EXCELLENT choice. The VE and 9000 cards are great values.

Visit www.lordsmurf.com (now known as www.digitalFAQ.com) for guides on how to use it.

A Canopus ADVC is NOT for tv capture. It does not take coax in, not without an intermediary like a VCR, and therefore has no PVR ability.

Only other really good choice is Hauppuage WinPVR 350, but again, it can have it's own errors too, as well as software that I find less intuitive than ATI's.

[Nelson37]

I'm on my fourth ATI capture card, 6th or 7th MMC version. Card offers great flexibility in input connection (Coax, Composite, S-video), output type (AVI, MPG-1, MPG-2, MPG-4), Resolution (all major variants), audio capture card (user selectable, allows for true 24-bit capture and perhaps real-time AC3 cap).

The real-time encoding is hardware-assisted but benefits greatly from CPU upgrade, unlike the Hauppage. I have upgraded processor 5 times since the PVR-250 was top of the line, in that time only one new, upgraded Hapuppage product has been introduced.

Excellent quality, no insurmountable install problems, software regularly updated.

To call the MMC the "worst software on earth" is simply sour grapes from an inexperienced user. The guy who got wavy picture either has a bad tape, bad VCR, or misaligned heads. Neither software nor hardware, in the PC, will fix this. Macrovision removal and/or TBC needed, though some might get a false impression of improvement by throwing away data capping at 352x 240. Did I mention that Macrovision removal is possible in software? Or that the huge installed base makes for an active user community, producing registry tools and tips for better usage? Or that the package now includes a remote control, and functions as a complete PVR/Tivo if desired?

The Hauppage products are good but they are something different. Same for the Canopus. Go by the price and feature set. Remember that there is no software or hardware made that is not incompatible with something, or that someone can't set up or use improperly who will blame the manufacturer for their ignorance. There are probably more people using ATI capture products succesfully than any other single product available, perhaps all others put together.

[rdfarr]

My original question has certainly generated a lot of feedback, some contridictory. Still pouring thru all the responses. Have not yet eliminated the ATI card even though one respondent had a very bad experience. The fact that it is both a capture card and a video card, for less than $100, is attractive.
My computer has the Intel 845GV Chipset for video and sound. Video shares 64 meg memory on the motherboard. Does this raise any red flags as to success of a PVR card? Specifically, deactivating the existing chip to prevent conflict with the new card.
Thanks for all the opinions.

[lordsmurf]

My original question has certainly generated a lot of feedback, some contridictory. Still pouring thru all the responses. Have not yet eliminated the ATI card even though one respondent had a very bad experience. The fact that it is both a capture card and a video card, for less than $100, is attractive.
My computer has the Intel 845GV Chipset for video and sound. Video shares 64 meg memory on the motherboard. Does this raise any red flags as to success of a PVR card? Specifically, deactivating the existing chip to prevent conflict with the new card.
Thanks for all the opinions.

Having an INTEL motherboard will assure you of a good ATI experience.

[Zetti]

Zetti, I believe your sole complaints were directed at your own AMD VIA system choking on timer functions. Correct me if I'm wrong. Don't torpedo the software because of one bad flaw on a known conflicting system.
A Canopus ADVC is NOT for tv capture. It does not take coax in, not without an intermediary like a VCR, and therefore has no PVR ability.

Hi Lord and all,

Intervideo ? Works !
Power VCR ? Works !
Showshifter ? Works !
ATI MMC ? Doesn't work !
The card ? It's an ATI :P :P

So....

Not to mention that, after spending minutes making my own profile, when I return to the sw it isn't there
One has to make a special investigation, maybe make a programing university :P , to discover that there are "special ways" to close the sw and make it keep the presets, simply clicking on the "X" and closing it doesn't work :P

Intervideo ? I close the sw whatever way and my presets are there;

I got a CANOPUS ADVC-100 and it's wonderful, but of course it isn't a TV Tuner and including it in this topic might be useless

So, Lord and all friends, everyone have their own opinions and for me, ATIMMC is horrible;
I don't want to enter a "war" but everytime opinions are requested, I throw in mine - indeed, it seems I am the only man on earth that got contact with ATI support, they told me I am a liar and create problems just to annoy them
Card is good, makes very good capture, use it with third party sw and say bye-bye to your problems,
I sold my AiW 8500DV and got a 9000PRO, the problems with MMC are the same, but capture quality using Ulead Video Studio is excelent - real time, full D1, mainly from VHS; shame it doesn't have PVR functions;

Later,

Zetti

[d@nno]

I have a AIW 8500 and love it. Using LordSmurf's settings, I'm able to capture great looking DVD compliant video from TV and VHS sources. Only problem I've had is altering the default GOP structure within MMC. This is my second ATI capture card, and I'll probably get another. Individual results may vary though...
EDIT: my only real true complaint is that the TV tuner is not quite up to par. I usually pass through a VCR tuner with S-Video and RCA to avoid interference from my cable line. So if there is interference, the AIW tuner is probably going to intensify it.

[lordsmurf]

I have a AIW 8500 and love it. Using LordSmurf's settings, I'm able to capture great looking DVD compliant video from TV and VHS sources. Only problem I've had is altering the default GOP structure within MMC. This is my second ATI capture card, and I'll probably get another. Individual results may vary though...
EDIT: my only real true complaint is that the TV tuner is not quite up to par. I usually pass through a VCR tuner with S-Video and RCA to avoid interference from my cable line. So if there is interference, the AIW tuner is probably going to intensify it.

Get a DC block or adjustable attenuator at Radioshack. It's a small coax filter. We're talking just a few bucks here. Fixes that problem most times.

[boolala]

Get a DC block or adjustable attenuator at Radioshack. It's a small coax filter. We're talking just a few bucks here. Fixes that problem most times.

Can you please elaborate on this?

I use a splitter to send coax to my cable modem and the another output to a Hauppauge USB device. I noticed that on one of the cable lines in another room I can get only cable TV and not internet but that on this particular line I can get both. Is that because the cable co has placed a filter on the former cable to filter out the internet signal?

And would it be desirable to do the same distal to where the cable is being split before feeding it into the Hauppauge TV tuner?

[ns]

My Dad always told me, "Opinions are like butts, everybody's got one, some just stink worse than others."

He also told me, "It's better to keep your mouth closed and let people THINK you're stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Advice that some would be well advised to heed.

To Nelson37:
I'm going to assume that the '37' after your name is your I.Q. since to make a comment like "... To call the MMC the 'worst software on earth' is simply sour grapes from an inexperienced user...." is the most moronic comment I've ever heard. That's like telling Ralph Nader that "To call the Ford Pinto the most unsafe automobile on earth is simply because you don't know how to drive a car." I realize that you probably think yourself pretty "experienced" and I hate to burst your bubble but disliking a particular product does NOT make one "inexperienced" as to how to use it. Or your other comment "someone ... will blame the manufacturer for their ignorance." Are you telling us that you have NEVER bought a product that simply was NO GOOD? Have you never returned ANYTHING because it simply did not DO what it was supposed to DO? If that is the case then you are a very lucky, and rare, person. If that is not the case then were you just too "ignorant" as to how to use it?

By the way, I'm "The guy who got wavy picture either has a bad tape, bad VCR, or misaligned heads." Gosh, I guess I must be so "ignorant" that I didn't even think to check that.
#1. The tapes are NOT bad. The picture looks fine on the TV. Excellent as a matter of fact.
#2. I tried 3 different VCR's. Some cheap, some not-so-cheap. No difference.
#3. The heads on the not-so-cheap VCR have been aligned by a professional and verified as 'perfectly aligned'.
#4. Why on earth should I HAVE to download and install an outdated "Macrovision Removal Tool", umpteen 25Mb driver updates, hack the registry, or make a trip to my local Radio Shack in order to use a $190 product that, according to some "experts" is the greatest thing since sliced bread? Do you think that if ATI advertised that "This card will NOT capture your home videos without LOTS of 3rd party software, ALL of our latest driver updates (which we post a new one about once a month, AND they're HUGE so you will want a broadband connection), Parts from Radio Shack, EXTENSIVE knowledge of how to hack the Windows Registry, AND know how to search the internet message boards for additional help because our staff hasn't a clue as to how to help you out." "Oh, and by the way, even then it still probably won't work right!" that they would sell very many cards?

Also, for you to make a statement that "There are probably more people using ATI capture products succesfully than any other single product available, perhaps all others put together.." would actually be laughable if it weren't such a flat out lie. Other than ATI's website, WHERE did you get THAT statistic?

As a matter of FACT, with even just a little bit of REAL research, on the web, in the print media, and even in the broadcast media, you will find that the TRUTH is actually just the opposite.

#1. ATI's drivers are NOTORIUS for being the 'buggiest' in the industry.
#2. ATI's 'tech support' is NOTORIUS for being the worst in the industry.
#3. ATI's cards run the 'hottest' in the industry.
#4. ATI has one of the highest 'return' rates in the industry.
#5. ATI's popularity is steadily losing ground to it's competitors because of the above FACTS.

So, before you spew any more of ATI's spoon fed propaganda, I suggest you get your FACTS straight.

To 'Lordsmurf':
Concerning your commment "NS, I don't know what the heck you're talking about..." pretty much sums it up doesn't it?
You DON'T know what I'm talking about.
I really think you should just stick to talking about how to capture 'Stripperella' or 'Dragonball Z' or some other really bad Japanese animation. Yeah, I've been to to digitalFAQ.com and I found it to be full of unfinished articles, broken links, and outdated and just plain BAD advice. I do have to wonder, however, how much ATI is paying you to keep that unfinished, un-maintained, waste of bandwidth and harddrive space on the internet?

Concerning your comment "...never once made a solid complaint about a specific problem..." I don't see how I could have been any more specific than "... The main reason I bought the ATI card was to be able to move my home movies from VHS to DVD. I get everything set up, put the tape in the machine, set the ATI Capture to "Composite" input and VIOLA!, I am capturing a wavy, garbled picture....". What part of that SPECIFIC description did you not understand? And rather than ask me for any more SPECIFICS you, in your infinite wisdom, automatically assume that I must have "... some cheapo VIA chipset that conflicts...". Golly, I don't know what us "ignorant" people would do if it weren't for such smart people like you and Nelson37 (who, by the way, according to his own Computer profile on this board doesn't even know what motherboard he has).

I DON'T have 'some cheapo VIA chipset' and even if I did don't you think that ATI should specifically state that "This card will NOT work with 'cheapo VIA chipsets'? Or nVIDIA chipsets or ANYTHING OTHER THAN INTEL chipsets! And even then there are no guarantees!". But thanks for your invaluable input anyway.

For the record Gentlemen,
I am NOT a newbie at this.
I AM, however, A+ certified and I have probably been dealing with digital media since before most of the people on this board were born.

rdfarr asked a simple question.
I gave him my honest opinion about a product(s) that I have had experience with and done my homework on.
What he, or anybody else for that matter, chooses to do with that opinion is entirely up to him.
There was a time when we were limited in our choice of "capture devices". That is not the case any longer. I simply think that he (or anyone) would be better served if they shopped around, did the research, and weighed all of their options before plunking down their hard-earned cash for a product that, in my opinion, is an inferior, flawed product. That opinion, gentlemen, does not make me 'ignorant' nor any less 'knowledgable' than you or any one else.

So please, save your insults and your high-and-mighty, intellectual, 'superior', 'I'm smarter than you' comments for your buddies or somebody else that might actually be impressed.

I am not.

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning.
/ Moderator Baldrick

[andkiich]

ns,

None of us here know who you really are, what you really do and for that fact I'm sure that no one really cares.

Other than offering your obviously biased opinion, you have done nothing at all to help the original poster with his question. If you expect us to respect or even listen to any of your "facts" then give us some concrete evidence that all the little tidbits of info you posted are true. Just because you were unable to get something to work or had a bad experience with someones customer service doesn't mean that they or their product are a problem.

Insulting people here does absolutely nothing but eat up bandwidth. Thanks for wasting our time.

[Supreme2k]

He also told me, "It's better to keep your mouth closed and let people THINK you're stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Advice that some would be well advised to heed.

Advice that you obviously didn't heed yourself

That's like telling Ralph Nader that "To call the Ford Pinto the most unsafe automobile on earth is simply because you don't know how to drive a car."

With Ralphie's recent (and not too recent) track record, I wouldn't think he could operate or evaluate a vehicle. Good analogy

For the record Gentlemen,
I am NOT a newbie at this.
I AM, however, A(sshole)+ certified and I have probably been dealing with digital media since before most of the people on this board were born.

But my dick is still bigger than yours.


If you don't have anything constructive to say, STFU. I have the 7500, and it is one of the best investments I have made. The capture and video out capabilities are flawless. I know some people like the PCTV Deluxe, which is crap IMO, but I'm not going to insult the people just because of their purchase choice.

Jerk.

[jimmalenko]

All hail ns

The funny thing is, ns has soooooo much experience (much more than all of us put together if you believe the shit dribbling out his mouth) and yet he still purchased the card and couldn't get it working.

ns, I'm so jealous of you with all your experience. You are a legend that we should all bow to...

[lordsmurf]

NS ... all I hear is this:

"blah blah blah blah SUCKS blah blah blah blah blah blah HATE IT blah blah blah blah BECAUSE I SAID SO blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I HATE ATI blah blah blah blah blah I'M MAD NOBODY WANTS TO SEE THINGS MY WAY blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah "

ATI is great. There is a huge customer base, most of them happy. The software is very intuitive.

The card tends to pick up everything from the video signal, which a tv does not do. Welcome to video, you're now seeing the signal for the poor quality in which it really exists. This is why you're mad, and nothing can be done, aside from a TBC to fix the flaws of your tape and signal.

ATI pays me nothing. I wish they would. The site is a hobby, I work on it in freetime as I can. And I don't like Japanese animation at all (DBZ sucks). Quit assuming things.

You are a complete video newbie. You wreak of it. I can smell it from here.

A+ Certified means you took a simple test about computers. The local high school is full of kids that have this same cert. They teach A+ in one semester, and hand those things out like toilet paper in a restroom. I used to think A+ meant something until I saw that.