Instant copy 8: compliant files?

[pippocalo]

When I produce one back-up of my film with Instant Copy 8 I will get a DVD that is not redeable by others ripping program (the same thing also with files on PC, files obtained extracting from PDI image):

for example DVDShrink says that Navigation of DVD is illegal and Clone DVD open structure but don't show preview but only a fix image with something like " IFO6 ....an so on".
The DVD is played without problem by DVD-player and by PC.

Do you know why only ripping programs find struccture illegal???

[dafreak]

instantcopy uses it's own file extension that can only be read by ic and other pinnacle software.

if you want other programs to be able to open the pdi, you need to get a program such and pdi2iso to convert the pdi to standard iso file.

[jbenj01]

PDITool will rip/convert the pdi files to IFO and VOB files, which can be read by most any other app.

[MackemX]

IC8 doesn't remove titles all that well (just as IC7)

the remnants of info for the titles still remain in the IFO which now isn't in the VOB's. That's why progs like Shrink refuse to load it as it's not fully DVD compliant

maybe Pinnacle will fix it one day

[pippocalo]

MackemX

Tanks for your "compliant" answer. If you are right i would must be able to open a DVD were all was ripped with IC8 and not only film.

I will try; at the moment I don't have someone of these DVDs because normally I did used IC8 when it's necessary to compress very much and, in these cases, I don't put also menu title and extra .

I will infrom you about the results.

Bye

[pippocalo]

MackemX
I did tried also with fully back-up of DVD by IC8. Always the same problem; it is enough to keep out one language and the file IFO will be no compliant if compresse with IC8.

Do you have an idea how to repair file IFO ???

My intention is to use DVDShrink and IC8 combined in order to have quality of IC8 and flexibility of DVDshrink.

I want to pass first with IC8 giving a target value of space available more than a DVD in order to have an outputu a little greater than DVD.

Than pass to DVDshrink reducing dimension exactly to DVD dimension compressing title and/or extra if present.

[dafreak]

^^^^^



I'm confused.

[dcsos]

Quality of IC 8 is not better than Shrink

Numerous forums on the subject exist on this site archive if you do a search

[MackemX]

Quality of IC 8 is not better than Shrink

Numerous forums on the subject exist on this site archive if you do a search

are you really sure? Most you see are pointless as quality issues have too many varying factors such as perception, equipment, source quality etc

@pippocalo, a hybrid is a good method if you feel IC gives better quality than others. Use InstantCopy on just the movie title (allowing say 3.8GB for example). Leave the Menu & extras @ 100% then use DVDShrink to reduce the menu/extras and remove the audio and create a 4.37GB output

IC sometimes struggles reducing menu's and extras due to stills or very similar moving images and therefore wastes space due to it's inability to compress to what you set it. This oversizing is normally compensated due to the undersizing on the main movie, so most users do not actually see what's going on . I did extensive tests recording titles sizes before and after and could soon see how IC dealt with certain titles and even came up with an IC sizing calculator (the one in InstantCopy Hidden Settings Editor)

I used this method with Instantcopy & DVD95Copy last year and got up to 10% more quality for my main movie due to the sizing optimization. I also created a calculator for this method so it told you what you could set IC too. In the end I gave up when Shrink's quality improved with later versions and now I don't even bother with backups

[pippocalo]

Yes MackemX

I want to do so: But if I use IC8 , also if I mantain all DVD with menù and extra (removing only languages and subtitles not needed), the result was not good for DVDshrink that refuse to open.

The only other test that i must to do is mantain all language and subtitle; but in this case it is not so easy evaluate the oversizing with IC8 in order to obtain something that compressed with DVDshrink (only in menu and extra) will gives just the dimension of a DVD.

However thanks for your suggestion and excuse me for my english.

For the other people i want to say that at the start i did used only DVDshrink; that is a very powerful software. But when i try to compress in only one DVD film like Titanic i did found that the quality was very poor. So I did tried IC8 and in these case did found IC8 quality better than DVDshrink.

When the compression is between 75% and 100% DvdShrink don't shows difference vs IC8; but at 50-60% the difference it is sensible.

This rule it is not valid in all situations; depends also from the quality of the original movie. For example with "2001 Odissey in Space" I did discovered that DVDshrink gives quite better quality of IC8 (compression is 75%). But generally, repeat generally, IC8 gives better quality on long movie.

Both DVDshrink and IC8 drop drammatically quality when compression goes under 50%. In these case it is better to use 2 DVD or a method based on a true encoder (like CCE).

Bye

[dcsos]

Most you see are pointless as quality issues have too many varying factors such as perception, equipment, source quality etc

hadn't thought of it that way
Personally, using IC7 alway achieving 75% or better compression on Main
Movie, I never saw IC 7's advantage, If any
Maybe what you say about quality applies to IC8 or higher?

[northcat_8]

Being a long time IC7 user and I tried IC8...which sucks IMO...it is definitely not an upgrade, it's pretty much the same program with a new skin.

In any event, I recently tried DVDshrink and found it to be very good. I did 4 DVD's with it this week...I found that shrink's quality does drop considerably with some DVDs with either a ton of extras or long movies. For example the movie "BLOW" has a bunch of infinifilm stuff and the movie is 124 minutes long. Using shrink to back this one up the main movie was down to 64% and didn't look very good once finished. Mainly because I couldn't drop the extras down any lower than certain percentages in shrink. So I did this DVD in IC7 and I could drop the extras all down to 30% and the main movie came out looking great compressed at 86%.

Now maybe, it's just because I have just started using DVDshrink and I'm not familiar with how to manipulate it yet...but I'm working on it. So for now it seems to me that both programs have their place.

I also think that if you are doing a movie only method, dropping the extras and menu's. Then just ripping the main movie files and using IFOedit is much easier. I know DVDshrink has a re-author mode that folks say is the same thing, but I haven't explored that yet. Using the IFOedit method if the movie is still too big, IC7 will squeeze it down that little bit in about 6 minutes. IC7 & IC8 are terrible about dropping out Titles. I have never had a single DVD come out right when I tried to delete a Title in IC7.

If you pass the video through IC8 first then you need to use the pdi2iso tool to convert the pdi files to an ISO file. THEN you will need to load that ISO into Daemon Tools and rip the virtual DVD with Decrypter (in file mode) so that you get your DVD back in the form of a VIDEO_TS folder, so you can open it in DVDshrink.

[MackemX]

I also think that if you are doing a movie only method, dropping the extras and menu's. Then just ripping the main movie files and using IFOedit is much easier. I know DVDshrink has a re-author mode that folks say is the same thing, but I haven't explored that yet. Using the IFOedit method if the movie is still too big, IC7 will squeeze it down that little bit in about 6 minutes. IC7 & IC8 are terrible about dropping out Titles. I have never had a single DVD come out right when I tried to delete a Title in IC7.

I think you should try it as there is no need for Ifoedit at all and people do suffer from IfoEditphobia

Not only is it faster but the other great thing about using DVDShrink is you can trim the start/end credits if you want saving more valuable space. You can also use variable compression to give more space to the higher action scenes then I'm sure most will use it again once they try it

yep, title removal is not the best with IC

If you pass the video through IC8 first then you need to use the pdi2iso tool to convert the pdi files to an ISO file. THEN you will need to load that ISO into Daemon Tools and rip the virtual DVD with Decrypter (in file mode) so that you get your DVD back in the form of a VIDEO_TS folder, so you can open it in DVDshrink.

no need to rip it as DVDShrink work's from the image


@dscos, quality is a very debatable area but as long as the 'backupper' is happy then who cares? . Reducing the same movie by varying percentages with both tools may still give different results as to which is the better quality. This is because different scenes will give varying results so you can see why opinion's in this area are very debatable

bring on dual layer I say 8)

[jbenj01]

[/quote]If you pass the video through IC8 first then you need to use the pdi2iso tool to convert the pdi files to an ISO file. THEN you will need to load that ISO into Daemon Tools and rip the virtual DVD with Decrypter (in file mode) so that you get your DVD back in the form of a VIDEO_TS folder, so you can open it in DVDshrink.[/quote]

Couldn't you just use PDITool and rip/convert the pdi files to IFO/BUP and VOB's.. ??

[northcat_8]

no need to rip it as DVDShrink work's from the image

That's true... like I said, I am new to Shrink.

As far as the pditool goes, I couldn't tell you, I've never used it.

[yujo]

If you pass the video through IC8 first then you need to use the pdi2iso tool to convert the pdi files to an ISO file. THEN you will need to load that ISO into Daemon Tools and rip the virtual DVD with Decrypter (in file mode) so that you get your DVD back in the form of a VIDEO_TS folder, so you can open it in DVDshrink.

@northcat_8: I did it many times but I discovered a better way to convert pdi files to DVD folders:
Install InstantCopy Hidden Settings (http://www.mrbass.org/instantcopy/InstantCopySettings.zip) and start it.

Pressing CTRL+P (or clicking tools menu -> PDIControl) you´ll start PDIControl a useful utility that can either convert to iso or extract the files to your hard disk. So using this tool you don´t need to convert to ISO and then convert to DVD folders... (I wasted many time doing it too

A good reminder: If you want just to burn you can use DVD Decrypter. It can burn PDI files. I just convert to a DVD folder when I want to put something else on the DVD. Usually some titles come with an AUTORUN program (some titles come with their own DVD player software) that open when you put it in a DVD-ROM. Using IC8 it usually lost these PC files, so after IC8 ends his job I convert the PDI file to a DVD folder and copy the PC DVD-Rom files into the DVD Folder. This keep the DVD-Rom files like the source DVD. Of course I just do it if the PC files are small files and I have some empty space to use (usually IC8 use just about 4.33Gb and no more...).

I like IC8. It has your problems but its a good software and give me good quality copies. But I miss some features that I hope Pinnacle think about them on a next version... My biggest problem these days its not the software but the media... Its a big headache to find good media. I have a LG4040b that can burn at 4x but the best media I can find here is the RITEK G03 that can only burn at 2x... Other media I tested are too bad... It seems the good PRINCO 4x doesn´t exist... here I just find fake PRINCO that dont have a 4X_____ code write in the center of the disk... but it´s another topic... time to go...

Sorry my poor english.

[northcat_8]

I did it many times but I discovered a better way to convert pdi files to DVD folders:Install InstantCopy Hidden Settings (http://www.mrbass.org/instantcopy/InstantCopySettings.zip) and start it.

Yea, I know that the option exists...I don't trust a company that can't even get files size issues straightened out with things I can't see. I can see the results of it's compression...so I will use it to do that...but other than that...no way I trust it to do anything else.

I don't ever Re-rip anyway, I figure file size by hand since pinnacle can't seem to divide by 1024 properly, I use pdi2iso because I burn with decrypter (I know Decrypter will burn pdi files but I always check the DVD before burning it....it's a trust issue). I COULD burn with IC7...but come on now, seriously...removing titles doesn't work properly, reported file size is wrong, the "upgrade" IC8 is no different than IC7 - they just tried to incorporate some of the hidden settings into options, painted it purple and called it version 8....and I have Pinnacle's Studio 8 also...I will spare the board the list of bugs in that software...so in short, I don't trust Pinnacle to do anything other than to compress the DVD...I get the video in and out of pinnacle's hands as soon as possible.

Sorry for the little rant...I'm a little bent out of shape with pinnacle right now.

[ddlooping]

Hi all.

northcat_8, you could also use DVD Shrink re-author mode to make movie-only backup when the required compression would be too high in full-disk mode.

Some user-friendly guides to familiarize yourself with DVD Shrink:
http://www.dvdshrink.info/guides.php

[pippocalo]

All the procedures to obtain ifo and vob from IC8's image file are very good; but the problem still is that DVDshrink (but also other ripping/stripping program) refues to open this file because "invalid Navigation" message.

I repeat that the ifo file genarated by IC8 were illegal and i did asked if someone knows a symply method to adjust it.

Bye

[MackemX]

I repeat that the ifo file genarated by IC8 were illegal and i did asked if someone knows a symply method to adjust it.

it would take too much effort trying to manually fix the IFO's to get DVDShrink etc to accept the files

I guess the simplest way would be to say don't use IC to remove titles

you could change the IFO's before IC so you can trick it into seeing only what you want it to see. I worked out a few dirty hacks that enabled you to modify the IFO's and remove titles/chapters or cells and IC accepted them but DVDShrink didn't

since then though I have also tricked DVDShrink into also seeing only what I want in seconds with a few dirty hacks , but I haven't had the time to get a programmer to automate it