Converting NTSC 29.97 to Pal 25.000

[chris_paulin]

How do i convert an NTSC mpeg2 video to pal mpeg 2 without it looking all stuttery. I also have loads of 29.97 mpeg-1 and divx files that i would also like to covert properly.

[adam]

There is no reason to do this. NTSC plays just fine on 99% of all PAL tv/dvd player combinations. Just keep it NTSC, you'll never know the difference.

If you wated to do it you would first have to run an inverse telecine filter to remove the telecined fields, assuming there even are any, which brings the framerate down to 23.976fps. Then you can just speed it up sightly to PAL. This only works on footage which originated as film.

[SatStorm]

The method Adam suggest works with anything NTSC to PAL, but unfortunatelly you don't have good results if your NTSC source isn't telecine for true....
If your player handles NTSC, better leave it NTSC.
But if you really want to do it (for the pleasure of "doing it" then you have 2 easy choises:

The "overal" good way:

1. You have to convert your mpeg to avi (for less quality loss better do it first)
2. You use Virtualdub to inverse telecine this avi to 23.97
3. You Extract the audio of this avi and save the video to a new avi.
4. You use the program avifrate to patch this new avi, which is 23.97 to 25 ftp/s
5. You use besweet (or other encoder) to convert the audio from NTSC (23.97) to PAL (25). This program automates this procedure.
6. You encode audio and video with tmpgenc (or whatever...) as whatever you wish PAL.

The fast way:

1. You convert your mpeg to avi
2. You load your avi to Virtualdub (there is an alternative: You can load direct any mpeg to modified versions of Virtualdub)
3. You set frame rate convertion to 25 ftp/s
4. You save your new avi to disc

You also need to resize your source to a PAL framesize (or expand box to a pal framesize) and I don't remember if you need to do those audio steps from the other method to.
This fast method is not as good as the first method, but it is more fast. It is a good alternative solution for anime.

[rhegedus]

Like Adam said, there's no reason to do this:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158768

[adam]

I don't see why you would want to convert the mpg to avi first, if you did choose to do this conversion. A straight conversion from mpg to mpg would work just as well and be much less work. All you would have to do is run an IVTC filter and set the output framerate to 25. There is no reason to break up each process into multiple steps. If will first IVTC, then it will speed it up to PAL framerate, but you skip all the intermediate steps.

[SatStorm]

Adam, you use so much avisynth, you tend to forget that only an advance minority use it!

If he tries to do it the way you suggest, he need or to use avisynth or to use dvd2avi.
If he use avisynth to frameserve / resize / etc, no problem. He can also add some filters if he wish and it's okey. The best way

With dvd2avi he'll not have the same good results, plus frameserving that way needs much more time.
Also, the resize from NTSC to PAL by TMPEGenc, is - for me - a bad convertion, expecially for shapes / lines. Virtualdub do a much better job on this.

If you don't use avisynt, I believe that it is far better to decompress mpeg 2 to avi, IVTC using adaptive mode in Virtualdub (which if the source isn't true telecine the result gonna be something wierd and interlace, but far better anything else I have found non avisyth related IMHO for this types of convertions) and then boost the new avi to PAL's framerate. Then, you load this avi to virtualdub and you convert it to a PAL framesize, plus - if you wish - you add some filters to smooth it. Then you encode.

It is the hard way, but if you don't use avisyth, this way IMHO gonna give you about 10 - 15% in quality than going the root you suggest. (I repait, using dvd2avi, not avisynth!)

Of course, the best way is using avisynth technics, but on those you are the expert to suggest!

[adam]

Oh well yes its true if I were doing this conversion I would use Avisynth, but I was just referring to TMPGenc in my post. It would be easy to do with dvd2avi->TMPGenc, but I hadn't considered the quality of TMPGenc's resizer. I haven't really noticed any problems with its resizer, but you have much more experience with TMPGenc than I do.

Well in that case, you can still use Vdub's resizer, TMPGenc's encoder, and go straight from mpg->mpg. Easiest way would just be to frameserve to Vdub with avisynth or VFAPI and then frameserve that to TMPGenc, but I know you don't like Avisynth. You could just use VdubMod to load the mpg directly, make all your settings, then frameserve to TMPGenc.

[musotechy]

I have converted many NTSC files to PAL using only TMPGEnc (MPEG2 + MP2) Author new DVD with IfoEdit. Drop the files into Nero and burn. DVD's play well with no errors or jitters.

[SatStorm]

@ Adam
The main problem frameserving with virtualdub, is that you can't use temporal filters that way! For example, temporal smoother, can not be used via frameserving with virtualdub!
I consider this filter (temporal smoother), among the best (and easy to use) filters, to eliminate those minor things we don't see but the encoder do see.
That's another reason I suggest to save the original mpeg 2 to avi, because the alternative (use dynamic noise reduction + static noise reduction) which can be frameserved isn't so good (and fast!) than using temporal smoother...
Anyway, the best way is using avisynth...

Resizing is an issue you first pointed me, almost a year ago when I tested DVD2SVCD and choose CVD for output. The results was awfull and you point me that it was resizing's fault!

I tested a lot that direction. TMPGEnc does a prety good job in resizing but it isn't the best possible! Virtualdub do it in a better way.
What I found over those tests is very interest, I didn't have yet the change to share, so let it post here:

1. I found that the correct resize method helps with shapes, lines etc. Overall, bileaner is better resizing bicubic if your target framesize is 1/2 D1 (352 x 576/480). Bicubic works excellent if you resize to NTSC SVCD (480 x 480) because this framesize is also ...Cubic, so there are no artifacts made by the resize! Expecially if you use mjpeg codecs. With PAL's 480 x 576 you had less horizontal artifacts, well seen after the pan and scan of our DVD Players. A PAL SVCD made by bicubic resizing looked far better a PAL SVCD made by biliner resize, on all the cheap DVD standalones! With NTSC is always visulally better with all the standalones!
But for 352 x 576/480, biliner is a visually better choice...

2. If you let TMPGenc to resize any source, it uses only bilinear method and it does an excellent job. But on fade outs / fade ins, for reasons I can't explain, it also creates macroblocks! If you resize your source before it goes to TMPGenc, then you can succeed amazing macroblock-free results of fade in / out, close to the results you can succeed with CCE (if not indentical).
And when I say fade in/out, I also mean colour fades, luminance fades, etc. Maybe CCE has a bult in filter for all this, maybe the YUV colorspace helps with all this, I really don't know! But the fact is that if you resize before the encoding using the correct method (bilinear for 352 x 576/480), TMPGenc encodes the avi to mpeg 2 far better!

Here is a great opportunity Adam to thank you for point me this issue a year ago. You really help me solve this "mystery". TMPGenc is an excellent encoder, but those macroblocks on fade in/outs was a minus compared the excellent CCE and the most noticable problem!

[adam]

Well I'm glad you got some use out of my advice regarding bicubic vs. billinear resizing. I agree, having the option of choosing your resize method according to your source is very important. I am suprised TMPGenc doesn't give you the option, and I agree as best as I can tell TMPGenc does use billinear resizing. Its really no worse than CCE though, which really doesnt resize at all except for its "dvd compliant" option which hardly counts. This is another reason why I like Avisynth so much, it doesn't matter what encoder you are using or what source you are using, you always have full control over everything.