SVCD to VCD

[nfhulsin8025]

I know I can get the mpeg out of the .bin using vcdtoolsX. What app should I use to change the resulting files to VCD? Thanks for any help.

[Locutus]

I know I can get the mpeg out of the .bin using vcdtoolsX. What app should I use to change the resulting files to VCD? Thanks for any help.

I don't know about your SVCD files, but I couldn't either until I got some help while back. It was a long process for me, but here is the link to that thread. May be this might be able to help you.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=147846


-Locutus

[nfhulsin8025]

OK, I tried using the ffmpegX method and my results were crap. out of sync/skipped ever two seconds and visual artifacts everywhere.
I don't understand the other method mentioned, isn't exporting to .avi a non loss-less format? I also cannot find a toast vcd export option for QT Pro. I was also under the impression that toast VCD's were non-standard and not universally playable. Not sure where to go from here, thanks for the help so far!

[Locutus]

OK, I tried using the ffmpegX method and my results were crap. out of sync/skipped ever two seconds and visual artifacts everywhere.
I don't understand the other method mentioned, isn't exporting to .avi a non loss-less format? I also cannot find a toast vcd export option for QT Pro. I was also under the impression that toast VCD's were non-standard and not universally playable. Not sure where to go from here, thanks for the help so far!

I couldn't get ffmpeg method to work for my files either, they where always out of sync. But if you go into termal and type in the commands that is on the post from that tread, you will be able to do the convert the files with loss of sync.

I don't know why changing it to a AVI file works (ZeroMac want to comment on that one?) but quicktime will handle it a lot better and allow you to export it to VCD using the TOAST VCD plug in (note you must have installed Toast currectly to have this).

The only problem with this is, that it took me an hour to convert a 45 min movie file to AVI it took 1 hour, then 3 hours to convert it to VCD.

I just started seeing that people where saying it's bad for VCD. I have had no problems using TOAST for VCDs. All the VCDs I made can be played in all the DVD players I tried that played VCDs.

-Locutus

[ZeroSix]

For generating sure-fire compliant VCDs, toast really is your best option. If you do not see the Toast VCD export option in Quicktime, you need to reinstall Toast, or ensure that the component is in the right place.

The method of converting to a .avi file is extremely simple to explain. Your source is SVCD and your target is VCD correct? No matter WHAT you do, you are going to lose a substantial amount of quality. SVCD is a resolution of 480x480 MPEG2, and VCD is 352x240 MPEG1. Furthermore, SVCDs commonly have a framerate of the NTSC film standard, 23.98, whereas the standard framerate for VCD is 29.97. Some VCD players can play VCD discs that have a frame rate of 23.98, but others cannot.

If you follow the instructions verbatim on how to convert it to a .avi, this will give you a very high quality movie that can be read and exported directly in Quicktime. When you use the Toast VCD option in Quicktime, it will automatically change the framerate and resoltuion for you and give you ZERO loss in sync.

You will notice that if you try to export your original MPEG file, you will get an error. Thats why it is necessary to vonert it to a "usable" format for Quicktime, as MPEG files at this point are "read-only"

Hope this helps.

[galactica]

I was also under the impression that toast VCD's were non-standard and not universally playable. Not sure where to go from here, thanks for the help so far!

SVCD with toast are non standard. It just doesnt burn them properly
VCD with toast is another story, no problem there.

Quicktime Pro, go to FILE, EXPORT and in the window that pops up use MOVIE TO TOAST VCD.

You will need mpeg2 plaback component since its a SVCD mpeg2.
Not sure how that works going back to mpeg1 - never done it before!

Does the dvd player not play SVCD's is that why you want to go to VCD?

[bilestyle]

toast vcd export does not work in quicktime from mpeg-2, it will export audio and no video.. thas not the path to go.. and i cant understand why you would want to convert to an inferior format like avi first.. that step just makes no sense.

alright for the umpeeth MILLION time i will post the directions for use in ffmpegx, if you follow these explicitly they WILL work (although look not great cuz VCD sucks, best advice get a player that supports SVCD, and NOT an apex -- worst brand ever)

Video Tab

Video Codec: MPEG1 [.MPG] (mpeg2enc)

Autosize: VCD NTSC

Framerate: NTSC (29.97)

Audio Tab

Audio Codec: .mp2

Audio bitrate: 224

sampling: 44100 hz

options:

uncheck decode with quicktime

profile: standard vcd

check constant bitrate

[ZeroSix]

bile,

the method of conversion to a .avi first is necessary in some cases if you wish to use the Toast VCD component to fix the frame rate of some video clips.

Also, it is necessary if you wish to use Quicktime instead of ffmpegX. While ffmpegX is more flexible, it is still intimidating to some. There is nothing more frusterating than going through a 5 hour conversion process only to find out that one setting was goofed and results in an unusuable file.

[bilestyle]

well with directions as explicit as mine if one cant figure it out still then well.. i guess the 8 million steps involved in going SVCD->Avi->VCD would be easier

jeez if the quality loss between SVCD->VCD is that bad i cant IMAGINE the quality loss from SVCD->AVI->VCD.. instead of going through all that effort why not just cough up the loot for a real dvd player? (real as in one that supports SVCD)

[ZeroSix]

but as said before, sometimes using ff alone just doesnt work... Sometimes you get sync problems. i have encountered this before, so has Locutus, and so has the original poster of this topic. Speaking in terms of quality "loss" by using the mencoder method of converting to a .avi, it isnt that bad at all... The resulting .avi from a standard SVCD with a res of 480x480 will have the same resolution with minimal artifacts, and the audio is identical to the source, as it is doing a mere PCM conversion. Once you convert that to Toast VCD using Quicktime, the resulting MPEG1 looks no better or worse than one generated using MPEG2ENC.

I fully agree with your method of using ffmpeg, and your settings are dead on, provided that their original MPEG file has a frame rate of 29.97. Often I have found SVCD MPEGS with a frame rate of 23.98, which is fine, but there are a lot of VCD players out there that will not play MPEG1 streams that have that frame rate. By using ffmpeg to make a genuine standards compliant VCD, you then get into setting 3:2 pulldown, which has always given me mixed results in the end. The method of conversion I have outlined is 100% bulletproof.. And it really is only 2 steps. 1) Convert to .avi using Mencoder, 2) export in quicktime. Maybe I will just write a wrapper for this process to simplify.

Bottom line is this people: Take Bile's advice and get a SVCD capable DVD player. They are less than $75. You will spend more than $75 of your time with any of the mentioned methods.

[Locutus]

I was also under the impression that toast VCD's were non-standard and not universally playable. Not sure where to go from here, thanks for the help so far!

SVCD with toast are non standard. It just doesnt burn them properly
VCD with toast is another story, no problem there.

Quicktime Pro, go to FILE, EXPORT and in the window that pops up use MOVIE TO TOAST VCD.

You will need mpeg2 plaback component since its a SVCD mpeg2.
Not sure how that works going back to mpeg1 - never done it before!

Does the dvd player not play SVCD's is that why you want to go to VCD?

Galactica,

That's why I was converting from SVCD to VCD. My DVD player doesn't do SVCD but does VCD. But I have a DVD burner now so I gave up on the process...

-Locutus

[Locutus]

toast vcd export does not work in quicktime from mpeg-2, it will export audio and no video.. thas not the path to go.. and i cant understand why you would want to convert to an inferior format like avi first.. that step just makes no sense.

alright for the umpeeth MILLION time i will post the directions for use in ffmpegx, if you follow these explicitly they WILL work (although look not great cuz VCD sucks, best advice get a player that supports SVCD, and NOT an apex -- worst brand ever)

Video Tab

Video Codec: MPEG1 [.MPG] (mpeg2enc)

Autosize: VCD NTSC

Framerate: NTSC (29.97)

Audio Tab

Audio Codec: .mp2

Audio bitrate: 224

sampling: 44100 hz

options:

uncheck decode with quicktime

profile: standard vcd

check constant bitrate

Bile,

Even after using your steps the end results would be the video and audio would be so out of sync it wasn't funny. ffmpegx works great for some files but from what I have been discovering, it doesn't like all the MPEG files out there for some that the frame rates where 23.9 like Zero stated.

As for getting a DVD player that plays SVCDs may be easier now, but when I got my DVD player I went though 5 that could play VCD (I had some VCDs already) let alone play SVCDs. But that's another story all together and totally off topic.

-Locutus

[bilestyle]

well change the frame rate to NTSC Film.. and if you still see it havin problems or your dvd player doesnt like VCD as NTSC film rate (which would just be bizarre as hell) then check off use quicktime for encoding.. (providing you have the mpeg2 decoder installed) and that problem will be solved.. there really is NEVER a necessity to convert to avi first. EVER

[ZeroSix]

What you have just outlined as a "solution" will have absolutely no impact on these problematic MPEG files. It is not quicktime that fixes frame rates, it is the Toast VCD component. And to be able to use the Toast VCD component, you need a file that Quicktime can work with. Prior to mencoders release to OS X you tell me the procedure to get an MPEG file into a Quicktime "friendly" format.

It involved demuxing the MPEG. Using a program like MPEG2DecX to convert the video only, then converting the MP2 file or AC3 file using mAC3DecX then attempting to interleave the audio and video manually without any loss in sync. I think you are missing the point of this thread.

the .avi format is the default container for mencoder. It is a Linux program. Just as the .mov format is the default container for quicktime. Quicktime .mov files can have PCM audio and lavc video codec, as does the .avi file generated from mencoder using the decribed method. There is nothing "inferior" about the .avi format at all. If anything is inferior, it is Quicktime itself for its inability to play MP3 interleaved .avi files and its inability to process mpeg files, whether muxed of demuxed.

I think if you had a little more experience doing conversions like this you would understand that things can be a little bit tricky. After shelling out $550 for a DVD player that doesnt support SVCDs, i spent several hours working out a method to make it possible to convert them down to VCD if thats my target or DVD, if thats my target. Granted, this process is a little more time consuming than using mpeg2enc [probably 1.5x longer] it generates perfect results without error.

[bilestyle]

actually dude, on the contrary.. i used quicktime to decode through movtoy4m to mpeg2enc and changed framerates several times.. thats how afropic worked.. toast vcd component wouldnt fix the framerate for shit if it wasnt for quicktime decoding.. TRUST me i know this for a 100% fact. you are going to question *MY* experience????? are you KIDDING? you think i dont know how mencoder and mplayer work? FORTY-TWO WAS MY BRAINCHILD (of course with a lot of help from chris and kai and kai wrote 95% of the engines after my base core was layed down, but the original concept is built on a crude script i wrote)!!! dude look who you are questioning about experience right now.... come on now you should know better, i cant believe your sitting here sayin "mencoder is a linux program blah blah blah" like i dont know how to use mencoder 100x better than 99% of the people on the forum... geez. come on man... and no you DIDNT have to convert to quicktime movie b4 this to keep sync.. i NEVER did that and i achieved sync with SEVERAL other processes b4 the advent of mencoder.. its not even worth it to argue.. i still cant believe you are questioning how much i know about all of this.

and before when you said svcd->avi->vcd i thought u meant totally re-encoding to avi.. there is adifference between re-encoding to avi and packing the video into an avi container.. obviously packing into an avi container yields no quality loss from svcd->avi.

[ZeroSix]

It's not exactly about questioning anyone's knowledge or abilities, and I apologize if I came across the wrong way. Some methods work better than others when doing a conversion of this nature and its best for others to have each one of these methods spelled out so they can choose what works best for them.

Again, I apologize.

[bilestyle]

im sorry as well.. i've been flying off the handle lately.. not in the best of moods life is totally hectic right now.. can sometime take things in a totally different manner then they are intended.. better not to take offense and address the question at hand in whatever way possible, and sometimes present multiple options.

[dcsos]

Let me just say that its pretty hassle free doing it ZERO SIX's way, as I've done this with MPEG-1's that were the wrong frame rate, file pixel dimensions or bit rate..
The intermediate step(AVI) is necesary to invoke the EXPORT FEATURE..

The other method , which I'm not familiar with is probably best left to those with a lot of time to TWEAK settings..or special patience with render parameters....