320x240 cap max - can save for DVD burning later????

[Paul Simmel]

Hello,

My WinTv PVR only allows me to capture at a max of 320x240. I am going to buy a DVD writer in the near future, and was wondering what I would need to do with current projects (learning curve stuff) to burn to DVD. Currently I am only able to play VCDs on my Sony player, so have been messing with that -- unfortunately the “Header Trick” has not yielded a playable SVCD for me on my current player.

All that I have read says that DVD compliant MPEG-2 files need to be of higher resolution than my current 320x240 capability. So I naturally wonder if I will be able to save any of my current work for later DVD burning? I am also definitely sold on the ADVC-100 for capturing Hi8 stuff, (which is what I am doing now with the WinTv PVR). Had I known about this option, I would have not gotten the PVR in the first place. Still, the ADVC-100 will have to wait awhile. I have what I have and was hoping for some advice on how to save some of what I am doing now for later use with DVD learning process.

I am using Vegas Video 3.0 for Capture/Editing/Encoding (mpeg-1 or mpeg-2).

Thank you!

Paul

[Vejita-sama]

The only legal DVD resolutions are 720x480, 352x480 and 352x240. Nothing else will work. So 320x240 is no good (can you step up to 352x240?).

Generally speaking for the best results you want to capture at the max resolution that your system supports, then edit/convert/resize (down) to your final MPEG.

[Nolonemo]

You can resize the 320x240 files to DVD spec when you encode them. It won't improve their quality, but they will be DVD legal.

[Paul Simmel]

Nolonemo

>>You can resize the 320x240 files to DVD spec when you encode them. It won't improve their quality, but they will be DVD legal.

In your opinion, do you feel there would be a noticeable loss in quality, to size up from 320x240 to legal 352x240? Considering my source at the moment is not-so-great Hi-8 tape?

Again, this is more of a learning issue for me than a practical problem I’m having. Because the ultimate goal for me is to be doing DVDs, I want to be able to apply what I am learning now to future projects.

Vejita-sama

>>The only legal DVD resolutions are 720x480, 352x480 and 352x240. Nothing else will work. So 320x240 is no good (can you step up to 352x240?).

Do you mean step up after capture during encoding, or step up the cap resolution to 352x240 before capture. If you mean the latter, no I can’t. Hardware is limited to 320x240 for raw .avi files (unless I capture as an Mpeg-1 or Mpeg-2, using the hardware encoder, which I have quality issues with.)

On your second point I agree 100%. I am assuming that the same theory behind this is the same as when scanning stills -- the most pixel information one can get to work with, the better the final quality after editing/filtering, etc.

Thank you both.

Paul

[Vejita-sama]

If you can only capture at 320x240 then you need it think about getting a new capture card (sorry). Your best bet with your current system would be to capture at 320x240 with the highest bitrate you can, then encode at 352x240.

Quaility will not be that great, but on a small TV it might not look that bad either. Since you said that your Hi8 source isn't that great to start with thou I wouldn't expect that much.

In the end, the only way to really know is to make some test files and see what happens.

[Ndb;-))]

Hi Paul,

I think your have a problem somewhere in your capture software, as WinTV PVR PCI does not even support 320x240 capture (see below). The smallest I can see is Half-D1 (352x576 PAL/480 NTSC) for MPEG2 and CIF (352x288 PAL/240 NTSC) for MPEG1.

From WinTV PVR PCI WebPage

MPEG record specifications:

MPEG1 record at 1150K bits/sec (video CD data rate)
MPEG2 record datarates: 2MBit/sec full D1 and half D1, 4MBit/sec full D1 CBR (constant bit rate) or VBR (variable bit rate), 6Mbit/sec full D1 CBr or VBR, 8Mbit/sec full D1 CBR or VBR, 12Mbit/sec full D1 CBR or VBR
NTSC format* at 29.97fps: Full D1: 704x480, Half D1: 352x480, MPEG1: 352x240
PAL format* at 25fps: Full D1: 704x576, Half D1: 352x576, MPEG1: 352x288
Audio sampling: 32, 44.1, 48 KHz
Chroma sampling: YUV 4:2:0
Video file format: .MPG
MPEG file tested compatible with: MediaStudio 6.0, MyDVD and DVD MovieFactory DVD authoring applications

I might be wrong, but that's what they say.

[D_Knife]

Ndb)
I could be wrong here but I believe those specs are correct for MPEG hardware capture - but the card also features a Brooktree/Conexant video decoder front-end before being fed into the MPEG encoding engine
Paul Simmel is using this video decoder chipset to cap at 320x240
I have heard of it done before but it's a waste of a perfectly good MPEG card IMO

Paul Simmel
Why not capture in MPEG2 CBR at 6000-8000Kbps
and re-encode down to a reasonable size
this is what I do with my Dazzle DVC II and I get STUNNING SVCD and CVD results
Capping at 8000Kbps I get comparible quality to first run HuffyUV capture and a MUCH smaller size. I then compress with TMPEG or CCE into SVCD or CVD
With CVD I can usually get about 45-50 mintues per CD with excellent quality
and CVD uses a DVD legal video size of 352x480 / 576 ( NTSC / PAL )
so your future-proof
try it and see for yourself

[Paul Simmel]

Ok, I-yi- yi!

Thank you both for replying!

I have learned from Ndb’s response, and a LOT of screwing around on my end today, that I DO in fact have a higher resolution capture than 320x280 with the WINTV-PVR-PCI. Thank you! But I knew that: sort of. I knew that I could capture MPEGS at a higher resolution than 320x240 – as high as 640x480. I stated that earlier. But due to the crap documentation I have had here, I was ALWAYS under the impression that .AVI cap’s could not exceed 320x240. THAT was due to the CRAP doc’s which came with the card, due to an apparent issue with the WINTV CAPTURE software (assuming that no one would ever think about attaining OTHER Cap software.) It states CLEARLY in the Doc’s NOT to exceed 320x240 when attempting to Cap .AVI’s. Ok. Now I know better. I have successfully captured beyond 320x240 .AVI’s. And I thank you Ndb for that. Please don’t take my anger as being directed toward you!

Here’s what pisses me off – I can ONLY cap at 352x240 in VirtualDub, after setting my WINTV CAP software to 640x480. If I Cap in Vegas 3.0, I have no settings other than the original WINTV settings (640x480 or 320x240), or lower, as the Vegas software defaults to the original Capture Card settings, which are embedded BELOW the Vegas Capture Device settings. I don’t like V/Dub so much, because it is confusing and difficult for me. So if I Cap in Vegas, I have huge 640x480 (twice as large) files as I need for Hi-8! Hi-8 records at less than 352x280 resolution, and to me it makes no sense to try to Cap twice as much “info”. And I see NO difference between the three Caps I have made (320x240 or 352x240 or 640x480)! on a burned VCD!

Here’s the deal. GRANTED, I and others don’t like the quality of VCD’s. I don’t have a lot of experience here, but I know I don’t like the quality I see on a VCD. It’s roughly half of the quality of watching the tape play from the camcorder on the TV!!!

I still want to use this learning curve for BETTER quality viewing.

Should I purchase an SVCD capable DVD player to get some satisfaction from these many hours of trial and error and research? I’m thinking that this should be my FIRST purchase on the road to better looking videos! But then again, I have never seen an SVCD in comparison of a VCD, and am taking the word of those who write here on this site – which BTW I take highly. VCD’s are not for me, sorry. I have spent hours and hours and more hours learning Vegas. It’s the best editing program I have use thus far. The effects and audio and all that are GREAT. But when learning how to make it look great playing it on TV…. Blah. The Previews in Vegas look better.

As I stated earlier, I am STUCK with this Cap Card for the time being, as I have a desire to LEARN. Had I known about a DV CamCorder with Analog PassThrough, or the Canopus ADVC-100, I would have gone that route, believe me. But I am stuck for the time being. I am stuck because I don’t have the funds at present to improve my plight, but want to use what I have (if possible) to continue the learning curve in hopes that what I learn now will serve me in the near future with advanced hardware. Does this make sense?

Any and all comments are welcome. Sorry for the frustrated attitude, so please don’t anyone take it personally. I guess that on the bright side, I’m not complaining about dropped frames, as I have none! Things could be worse (as they have been before).

Based one what you know I have, what would be the best route for me in terms of learning/hardware purchases, etc.? I don’t want to waste my time if my setup and means are inferior in relation to what I want to eventually do – quality video, so if I am blowing in up my *as, please let me know straightaway.

Thank you all!

Paul

[Paul Simmel]

Sorry, thanks for of the THREE of you for responding.

[Paul Simmel]

D-Knife,

Just saw your response, and briefly looked it over - am tierd and ready for bed, but will check it out and respond tomorrow. If you don't mind, I will have some questions for you as I have been under the impression that HardWare Capture of Mpegs 1 and 2 are inferior to .AVI Caps which are then in turn encoded to either Mpeg 1 or 2. Then again, whatever I have seen thus far on TV has been in VCD. I don't have the experience of a better quality viewing moment.

Thank you all for your input!

[D_Knife]

Paul Simmel
By all means read through my post again - but please don't be under the misinterpretation I'm talking about VCD ( That is Video CD )
I'm talking about CVD ( China Video Disk )
Read here to learn a bit more about them
http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/userguides/98177.php

Most SVCD capable players will play CVD fine and they really DO look great

[Paul Simmel]

D_Knife,

Before I respond to your earlier post, I quick question please. I have Cap’d a 352x480 .AVI, but it is stretched vertically and out of proportion. To burn the file as either a VCD, an SVCD, or, a CVD (ßwhich I think I will opt to work with), what resolution to I output (or encode) to?????

I need to do some more experimenting and would appreciate your advice on this. I will need to re-read the CVD stuff, as it is a lot to comprehend!

Thank you very much,

Paul

[D_Knife]

well CVD follows mostly the same specs as SVCD - but since it's slighly less in width you get more efficient use of your bandwidth
although it looks streched when you view it on the PC
DVD players - box and software players stretch it out and it looks normal.

when you encode it do it as per normal SVCD - except don't resize

burn ( In Nero) as non compliant SVCD and you should be right

but instead of using your AVI side of the card - try a nice 2496Kbps VBR recording in MPEG 2 and see what happens
if that looks ok then maybe stick with that - if it looks a little you know yuck then go for a higher bitrate and re-encode down to SVCD specs

[Paul Simmel]

D_Knife,

Thanks for your input!

I re-read your original post, and got you now on CVD. I still have some questions, though.

Re your original post, I will definitely try an Mpeg Cap and see what I get re quality. Will have to wait until after the weekend, though, ‘cause camera has been loaned out to family. So I can’t Cap till it is back. But regarding this Mpeg Cap, I will have to Cap at 640x480 in order to possess enough pixel information. Is this what you mean by:

“and re-encode down to a reasonable size”. ???

Since I will have a Cap’ed Mpeg 2 file, will “re-encoding” it mess with the quality, or simply re-size the file?

Got you loud and clear re the CVD being treated as an SVCD in terms of output (but that I should keep the 352x480 resolution) Thank you. You see, I currently do NOT have a DVD player which will play SVCD or CVD. Only VCD. A VCD is all I can view on my player, so I have been encoding a few things to Mpeg-1 just so I can see it on the TV instead of the computer. The quality of a VCD is bad IMO. I am ASSUMING that the compression of Mpeg-2 is much superior to that of Mpeg-1, based on the tons of stuff I have read on this site. I don’t know yet because I haven’t had the experience of Mpeg-2 SVCD on my TV.

Question: Is there any way I can take the 352x480 Caps and make them into BETTER looking VCDs? (Not that I will be making a lot of VDCs. Just because I cannot currently view Mpeg-2 video on my player and would like to see something on the TV)???

Or, should I try Mpeg-1 Capture at 640x480, resize to 352x240 (VCD) in hopes that I might have better quality VCDs since I have been capturing at 320x240 all this time. When the 320x240 capture is put into a project, and than outputted it is outputted to VCD resolution (352x240). I am outputting to a HIGHER resolution that what I have captured, therefore I am thinking that I have LOST quality insofar as the original. My TOP priority right now is to get a player which will play Mpeg-2, but this will have to wait for a little while.

Sorry for so many words. I’m trying the best I can. I would appreciate very much your views are on this.

Paul

[D_Knife]

Hi Paul

Personally I would cap at 352x480 at 7000-8000Kbps and then encode down
I use CCE 3-pass VBR with Min 300 Average 1200 and Max 1800 respectivly
Re-encoding WILL ALWAYS reduce your overall quality however if you do it correctly you can minimize the reduction so it's not really that bad
I'd love to show you something but all my files are around 120MB - and I don't have the bandwidth to send that kind of file - sorry

I believe you can try the "VCD header" trick - but since my DVD player works fine with CVD I haven't tried it

After capturing a file at 352x480 you could try a 2:1 vertical resize and get a very nice little video clip

I don't know if you have access to multiple MPEG encoders but it's generally agreed - especially by me that CCE is optimized for MPEG 2 especially Multipass VBR while TMPEGEnc is best for MPEG 1
I have never been able to be block free with TMPEG - while with CCE it's a snap

[Ndb;-))]

Hi Paul,

If your planning to edit your footage afterwards i.e. trim, title, transitions etc in say VideoStudio/VideoWave etc?? then you realy don't want to capture in MPEG1 or 2. If you only want to capture raw and stick it on a disk then ignore the next bit

MPEG1/2 is a crap format to edit with as you have already lost to much info and when you edit and output it you will loose even more. Plus it takes more CPU power to process when previewing etc and your AMD-900 is not really up to it. Well it is, but it will take much more time and the process will be very sluggish.

My advice is get hold of Ulead Video Studio 6 or MGI (Roxio) VideoWave 5 and capture in AVI using the DV Codec (same as Digital Camcorders use). This will give you max picture quality to start with and your system will handle it far faster. The only drawback is you need between 11-13gb per hour of video @ 720x576 (PAL) or 720x480 (NTSC) and you only have a single 40gb Drive. You should never ever capture to the same drive that holds your OS, as you are just asking for dropped frames. This is because the OS will be accessing the drive at the same time your are writing tons of data to it and your poor little drive heads will be working 10 to a dozen to try and keep up.

Ulead VideoStudio above can also output and author VCD/SVCD/DVD with menus etc (VideoWave can also, but it sucks)

I would go with D_Knife with CCE/TMPGenc for the MPG encoding, i.e. output back to AVI DV then use TMPGenc/CCE to encode to VCD/SVCD/DVD compliant MPEG1/2.

I really would advice getting another hard disk (not partitions, but physical drives) just for capture if you are going to really get into NLE video capture/editing/DVD creation etc. Plus get an ATA expansion card (one of those cards with 2 more IDE ports) so you can keep your hard drives, DVD-RW/+RW and CD-RW drives on indepenent channels. This will cut out any chance of one drive slowing the other etc.

The other thing about capture in MPEG2 with your PVR is quite frankly it's crap at it, well it was when I tested one. It was worse that TMPGenc using the fastest setting. There is a review of one on this site and it speaks for itself.

Once again this is only my opinion.

[Nolonemo]

Based on what I've seen posted (I had card capping questions before I started using DV cam pass-through) I would cap at 640x480. Then bite the bullet and spend $150 on a DVD burner (Staples just ended a deal for the Cendyne/Pioneer A105 for that, so you should be able to get an A104 for that if you shop around for a while). Encode and burn to half D1 (356x480) at a high bitrate. Many new "mainstream" consumer players don't support SVCD or CVD, I'd go for DVD as soon as I could.

[Ndb;-))]

Nolonemo

I think we can all assume Paul is already up for a DVD writer.

Hello,

My WinTv PVR only allows me to capture at a max of 320x240. I am going to buy a DVD writer in the near future, and was wondering what I would need to do with current projects (learning curve stuff) to burn to DVD.

I use a Canon MV530i for analog-digi passthrough (has realtime converter built in) for capping friends analogue tapes, but I always cap at full res 720x576/480. Why resize with this method ?? unless your strapped for HDD space.

Always IMHO Ndb)

[Paul Simmel]

Hi D_Knife,

Thanks again!

>>Re-encoding WILL ALWAYS reduce your overall quality

I think I have some personal experience with what you have said here. As stated, I use Vegas Video 3.0. Vegas has its own Mpeg 1 and 2 encoder, MainConcept Mpeg. After editing, I can Render my work to either Mpeg 1 or Mpeg 2. I have been Rendering to Mpeg 1 so as to at least have a VCD to view on the TV. I use Nero 5.5.9.0 for burning. For whatever reason, after I Render (encode) my work to Mpeg 1 with MainConcept, and pull that file into Nero for burning a VCD, Nero tells me that the file “needs to be re-encoded”, and gives me the option to have NERO re-encode. Up till a few days ago, I let Nero do this each time as I was afraid to have a failed burning session. The other night, however, I opted to ignore the re-encode, and the file burned just fine and able to have my DVD player recognize the Mpeg 1. Although the non-re-encoded “quality” of the VCD was still crappy (IMO) it was noticeably BETTER than previously viewed VCD experiment clips/projects re-encoded with Nero.

>>After capturing a file at 352x480 you could try a 2:1 vertical resize and get a very nice little video clip

With the above in mind, can I do a 2:1 vertical re-size without re-encoding? What software could I use for this?, if it is possible to resize but not re-encode. I do not have CCE, but do have YMPGEnc. I suppose it might be possible to Render a 352x480 .AVI clip fro Vegas to a 352x240 .AVI clip. But I wonder if THAT would be re-encoding, or just re-sizing????

I follow you here. The idea is to CAPTURE all the relevant and important pixel data – “like it is in my possession, I have it!” Now that I have it, I want to change the resolution, and when that resolution change takes place, I can put all the great pixel data to use to fill in the gaps that may occur from the resize, leaving best quality as a result. Conversely, I do NOT want to take an inferior, low resolution capture, and balloon it up BEYOND the original pixel data, as this will be blowing crap up to being crappier. I understand this correctly??? Like scanning a 1” section of a still photo, say at 1200 DPI, and then having TONS of pixel data, I can safely blow that 1” section of the photo up to an 8x10” print. I have done this, so I know it works that way. I am assuming that video capture follows that same theory. Please correct me if I am wrong.

>>don't know if you have access to multiple MPEG encoders but it's generally agreed - especially by me that CCE is optimized for MPEG 2 especially Multipass VBR while TMPEGEnc is best for MPEG 1
I have never been able to be block free with TMPEG - while with CCE it's a snap


I have not tried to encod an Mpeg 1 with TMPEG for VCD – only MainConcepts. I will try this and see if there is a perceptible improvement in quality over the MainConcepts encoder, for VCD. Thing is I am not all that familiar with all of the settings I’d need to pre-set for TMPEG. I will look on this site for the Guide/s.

Ndb),

My fault – I will update my profile after typing here. I have a second HD (40 gb) as a dedicated capture drive. This is temporary as well, as I will be grabbing another drive in the near future, probably at least an 80 gb drive, or a 100 gb drive depending on price, for capture-only.

>> The other thing about capture in MPEG2 with your PVR is quite frankly it's crap at it, well it was when I tested one.
I don’t know. I haven’t enough experience. I can easily edit mpeg 1 and 2 caps in Vegas Video – but then again, I will have to re-encode when I Render to an Output file. See my concerns above.

So, because I like to do editing (cross-fades between clips, audio, special effects, etc.), and because I do not know what an Mpeg 2 captured file would look like in terms of quality after re-encoding (because I can’t physically view it anyway), I have not tried. However, these are my thoughts in terms of my immediate situation – only making VDCs so that wife and family can view on TV what I’m spending all these hours on! I have to have SOMETHING to show them other than what I can view on the pc. If I were to capture Mpeg 2, at the highest quality that my system could handle, at 640x480 (which is dedicated, unchangeable resolution above 320x240 for this WINTV PVR card), with the intention of making a DVD, then again, I am sure the quality would be MUCH better than what I am looking at right now on this VCD limitation! So, D_knife has stated that his videos have been “stunning” as CVDs (Mpeg 2 captures). Again, I cannot view Mpeg 2 projects because my DVD player will not allow me to view them (even though I have the capability of creating better).

My experience is that .AVIs make superior clips when captured as such, and en-coded to Mpeg after, rather than Cap’ing in Mpeg 1 (2), and then re-encoded. There is no question about this, from my experience. I think I am beginning to understand that the issue here is the RE-ENCODING process, which degrades the source??? AVIs are superior to the compressed files, either Mpeg1 or 2. But D_Knife, if I understand, is stating that an Mpeg captured file (highest quality) will look great if reduced to 352x480 and played as a CVD or DVD – which is a far cry from my crap VCD capability. I hope I understand D_Knife on this point. But again, I cannot physically view his example due to hardware limitations on my end.

>> Based on what I've seen posted (I had card capping questions before I started using DV cam pass-through) I would cap at 640x480. Then bite the bullet and spend $150 on a DVD burner (Staples just ended a deal for the Cendyne/Pioneer A105 for that, so you should be able to get an A104 for that if you shop around for a while). Encode and burn to half D1 (356x480) at a high bitrate. Many new "mainstream" consumer players don't support SVCD or CVD, I'd go for DVD as soon as I could.

>> I think we can all assume Paul is already up for a DVD writer.

Nolonemo,

Ndb),

Ditto Nbd! And Ditto Nolonemo! I think I stated originally that I made a mistake in buying the Cap Card to begin with, and that learning after of such things as Analog Cam Pass-through and the Canopus ADVC 100, I regret the mistake, as I could have had at the least the ADVC on my desk right now for what I paid for the HAUPPAUGE card. However, since I do have the Card, and ONLY because of the Card, I have learned about this website, I am less regretful. As I see it the whole issue here is that I have “inferior” hardware, both on the pc and on the Player end.

NDB, I think you are right. I should probably get a DVD writer asap. However, I am following the opinions of those on this site who have HIGHLY recommended that Sony DVD DRV500A writer which is so hot right now with many here. Problem is it’s $350.00. Believe me I’d love it, and it may happen very soon that I buy it. So I take your suggestion kindly, as in fact you are absolutely right. You are right, no question. My solution is to get a DVD writer! But I am sold on that Sony writer for now due to the fact that so many people LOVE this drive.

I am going to be selling the Harley, a true friend of mine. The least I can do is to get up to speed with hardware over here on the video end.

DV Cam PassThrough:

What an awesome deal this is! Like I said, I had no idea just a few months ago that such-like existed. I have my eye on the Canon ZR-40,45,50. I’d really like the GL2, but that will have to wait until I sell my next house!

ITMT, I am grateful to all of you, as I want to sharpen my video skills with what I have to work with in the present, all-the-while keeping in mind that what I learn here and now will help me advance onto better video with better hardware in the near future.

Looking forward to hearing replies!

Paul

[Ndb;-))]

DON'T SELL THE HARLEY A Mega PC/Super DV Cam/Ultra DVD Writer etc etc is not a Harley!!!!

Right that's out of the way Paul, You have Vegas Video which is a very good NLE Video Editor and a 40mb capture drive.

Why not then capture in DV format?? Vegas Video like Video Studio etc should have installed a DV Codec, so should give the option to capture in DV format @ full res 720x480.

I don't remember saying a DVD Writer is a must, but I could be wrong. I'm with D_Knife on the Super-Video CD/China Video Disk in taht you can get great quality video. I just want to give you the best quality to start with. I've also done loads of VCD's at very good (better than VHS) quality using TMPGenc (never let Nero do it).

I have encoded ton's of Wedding/Party etc videos on an Athlon 950mhz system and an old ATi AIW pro, but I always captured in AVI DV format.

Give the DV format a go, your 40gb drive has plenty of room for more about 3 hours of video and audio. Another good codec is Huffy (a lossless codec, most are lossy) which you can dowload from here if you click on Tools to the left.

Virtual Dub is also a very good capping app and free to boot (also in tools on left) and it can use tons of codecs, do all your resizing, filtering etc. It can't output to anything but AVI codecs, so no good for MPEG (it can import it, but not output it).

On the Sony DVD-RW/+RW drive never used one, so can't say what it's like. I've only got an old Pioneer A104 and Phillips 228, but hey they do the job

It's good to see you are open minded and this is the best way to be. Just experiment a bit and find the way that best suits you and the way you wish to work.

Ndb)

[Paul Simmel]

NDB,

Thanks! Before I reply in more detail, two things:

I have to sell the Harley anyway because we are going to be selling the house and I will be personally building a new house soon after that. I will have not have time to ride it anyway! And can always get another one later after some profit.

If I cap at DV full res @ 720x480, wont this be at a resolution higher than what my WinTV card could handle? I am pretty sure (but not positive) that I can not exceed 640x480…. If it is, then I could cap at 352x480. But if so, the question still is, can I resize down to 352x240 (VDC format) to view on TV, without re-encoding? I guess I am confused about this and would appreciate someone steering me right on this.

I am very interested in getting quality VCDs, as you have said you’ve done, NDB, so I will be picking your brain on that. I’m sure that whatever I’d learn on that issue could be transferred to future, higher level projects!

Thanks again,

Paul

[Ndb;-))]

Hi Paul good bye Harley

You should be able to cap in what ever res you wish using DV in reality.
The main reason people cap at smaller sizes is really to save space, the smaller the res the less bitrate is needed to keep the quality.

With MPEG1/2 it is different because unless you have a really good capture board or a fast PC the compression could be to much at high res and you would get loads of dropped frames and this makes choppy video.

AVI in DV format uses a very low compression in regard to MPEG, so it does not tax your system anywhere as much, so you can cap at a higher res. You see 720x480 is your TV's resolution, well it's actually 704x480, but what the hell.

352x240 (VCD Res) is half the vertical and half the horizontal of 704x480, so this is also a perfect res for TV, so either will do really.

The only reason I always cap at say 720x480 (well actaully 704x576 - me in UK) is it gives me as much picture data as poss and when resized and to VCD/SVCD or left as is for DVD and encoded to MPEG1/2 I get the minimal quality loss.

You see the better the source, the better the final output after encoding.

As to great quality VCD with TMPGenc, just use the wizard and pick "NTSC VCD" and pick the slowest setting for motion detection and you should get a fantastic VCD.

If your capping in low res MPEG or even AVI (i.e. 320x240) you've lost so much picture data and then have to upsize to meet the VCD std 352x240, your gonna get a much softer (i.e. less focus) video. Plus if using Nero to do it, well nuff said

There are some fantastic guides on the left from people far more up on it than me, check out a few.

I hope this helps - Ndb)

[Paul Simmel]

NDB,

Yes, the Harley will be going I’m sorry to say. But it is for the best, really. I’m 51, and this is my 3rd Harley since I was 17. (I usually keep them for a long time!) This one is a ’98 Sportster Custom and I bought in new. There will be others coming my way down the road, I am absolutely sure of that!

Thank you so much for responding. I am so glad that I will in time be able to figure out how to make decent looking VCDs at this time, so I will work on this.

CRAP, I was going to do a little work, but realized that we left the video camera at the InLaws! SO I can’t do any experimenting for a few days.

>>I have encoded ton's of Wedding/Party etc videos on an Athlon 950mhz system and an old ATi AIW pro, but I always captured in AVI DV format.

>>You should be able to cap in what ever res you wish using DV in reality.
The main reason people cap at smaller sizes is really to save space, the smaller the res the less bitrate is needed to keep the quality.

But I have an Analog Cap Card at the moment, which I believe (not sure) is restricted to 640x480 caps. I do not have the analog pass-through option as of yet. Are you saying that my WinTv PVR, analog card will cap “honestly” at 720x480? And BTW, I had NO IDEA that the TV res was 704x480! This helps me conceptualize what the hell I am doing, and WHY my previous 320x240 caps look so BAD! Thank you for that little tid-bit! Also, I did a few 640x480 AVI caps last week and as I recall, they were about 1 GIG per minute!

Another question:

If I cap at 352x240, which is half of the 704x480 res that the TV displays, is the 352x240 cap doubled in size by the player? Am I loosing quality, or are the pixels simply being multiplied x 2?

>>As to great quality VCD with TMPGenc, just use the wizard and pick "NTSC VCD" and pick the slowest setting for motion detection and you should get a fantastic VCD.

Thank you. I will attempt this as soon as I get the camera back.


>>There are some fantastic guides on the left from people far more up on it than me, check out a few.

Yes, I have read through these several times, and I will for sure be looking through them again. Thank you for your input. I feel like a fish out of water, but, with time and advice/help, will be swimming in great video after this learning curve!

Looking forward to whatever you may have to say!

To anyone:

If I cap at 352x480, and “resize/encode” to 352x240, am I getting better quality than capping at 352x240 from the beginning? I am assuming that a 352x480 cap is going to have more of that sweet, wonderful and most valuable pixel information as a source file.


Paul

[Paul Simmel]

Ndb,

One last thing I missed:

>>Why not then capture in DV format?? Vegas Video like Video Studio etc should have installed a DV Codec, so should give the option to capture in DV format @ full res 720x480.

Because I don’t have the camera here to for an immediate capture, I will need to work out how Vegas Video’s Capture works in terms of resolution-settings. I am relatively sure that the Capture software cap’s at the resolution settings I set in the Project Preferences within the editing portion of the program, but I am unsure at this writing. IOW, if I open Vegas and choose a NEW Project, set the Preferences, and THEN cap, I am pretty sure that if I setup Project Preferences to 720x480, or, 352,240, or, 352x480, I will cap at that res. But I’m not sure.

Thanks again,

Paul

[Ndb;-))]

Paul,

An ATi AIW is an Analogue Capture Card (and a TV Card, AV In/Out Card, 3D/2D Graphics Card, Hardware Assist DVD Player Card etc etc)

I used to use it to capture from old S-VHS-C, 8mm, Hi8 etc. When I got my Canon it had an Analogue to Digital converter built in, so I just use FireWire with the Analogue cam plugged into my canon etc.

The cameras pretty crap, but the quality of the analog-digi is top and well worth the cheep price I paid for it.

Let me know how you get on with capping in AVI DV format.

[Paul Simmel]

Ok, NDB, sorry. Understood. DV capture is different than analog capture. Will be working this out over the next few weeks.

Paul


ps: Will let you know.

[Paul Simmel]

Hi guys,

I did a one-minute 352x480 capture, from Hi-8 source, using VirtualDub with the YUY2 codec. I then encoded to VCD (352x240) and have better-than-before quality when viewing on TV. I was unable to locate the Huffyuv codec under VirtualDub’s Set Custom Format option (where I set the capture to 352x480). I have heard that the Huffyuv codec is lossless, and was wondering how to capture with it. I know I have it, because when I initially start Vdub, a window comes up from which I choose Huffyuv – but apparently I loose it in the Custom Format option. Any suggestions????

Thank you!

Paul

[Ndb;-))]

I can't help you on this one Paul, as I have never used V-Dub to capture from my camera's. I only use V-Dub to encode pre-captured video (or DVD Rips) to avi formats (i.e. XViD, DiVX, Huffy etc) chosen in the Video - Compression menu.

I prefer to capture in something like VideoStudio etc and choose the codec I wish to capture with in there. If I captured in V-Dub I would then have to feed it into a NLE app to title, caption etc.

Hopefully someone on here will capture with V-Dub the same as you and can help. Here are some guides for V-Dub (yuo may have read them):

https://www.videohelp.com/mjpeg.htm

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/89899.php

[Paul Simmel]

Thanks, NDB,

I here you, and understand. I use Vegas Video for my NLE, and it has a great capture option as well. Problem is I can’t figure out how to set the resolutions and or codecs for capture. That’s why I used VirtualDub for my experimental stuff. I think I will do is post a different thread specifically on how to cap using the V/Video Cap at a 352x480 resolution, and see if this is even possible.

ITMT, if anyone has a thought on this, please post.

Thank you!

Paul

[Paul Simmel]

Hi all,

It turns out that Vegas Video’s Capture is preset with no options, really, mainly used for DV firewire captures.

So I guess I am back to the original question.

I did a one-minute 352x480 capture, from Hi-8 source, using VirtualDub with the YUY2 codec. I then encoded to VCD (352x240) and have better-than-before quality when viewing on TV. I was unable to locate the Huffyuv codec under VirtualDub’s Set Custom Format option (where I set the capture to 352x480). I have heard that the Huffyuv codec is lossless, and was wondering how to capture with it. I know I have it, because when I initially start Vdub, a window comes up from which I choose Huffyuv – but apparently I loose it in the Custom Format option. Any suggestions????

-=-=-=-

Or explanations?

Thank you,

Paul