Is realtime MPEG-capture always better then AVI-capt +encod?

[twoages2]

I like to capture SonyDigtal8 tapes for DVD burning. I consider a new firewire card. Making the right decision I have the following question:

Do I need to capture realtime MPEG2 for the best result? Or can I use the procedure: "AVI-capture plus MPEG2-TMPGenc" for the same (or even better?) result. I have no experience in realtime MPEG capturing. Currently I use the Pinnacle Studio DV firewire for AVI-capturing.
In other words: Does the realtime capture always delivers a better result by eliminating a step for encoding?

P.S. Is realtime capturing always a hardware issue or can it be also software-driven using a regular firewire card like Pinnacle Studio DV?

[donpedro]

Why do you think that you need new firewire card ?

I don't think that you can get same results wuth realtime MPEG2 capture. I think that software after capture encoding will be allways better. You can tweak settings, enable filters... With real time encoding your PC have to work very hard and you need a lot of power. And also it very depends what software do you use to do real-time MPEG2 encoding. So it is combination of software/hardware that play role in real-time MPEG2 capture.

Now of course you can allway go with hardware MPEG2 encoding cards. But that is different arena.

I would stick with current firewire card and do after encoding for Digital8 captures.

[sterno]

Capturing to AVI and converting will almost always give you better results. I've heard that some of the real-time software MPEG-1 encoders are pretty good for direct-to-VCD captures, but real-time software MPEG-2 will probably give you unacceptably poor quality. A decent hardware MPEG-2 capture card will do far better than software MPEG-2 capture, but you can probably still do better capturing to DV-AVI with firewire.

[SatStorm]

Realtime mpeg 2 capture, gonna give you great results only on higher bitrates (>4500Kb/s for CCIR-601)
You can succeed the same quality in much smaller filesize, by grabbing to avi with Huffyuv (IMO mjpeg is ok also) and encode to mpeg 2 with mutipass VBR and your favorite encoder.
That is my opinion, others may have a different one

[RudiVVC]

Here my personal desasters:

At first I had a Hi8-Handycam (1997). I bought a Pinnacle dc10plus-card.
This one does hardware MPEG-encoding.

The quality was acceptable, but the handling was not very good (in these times Pentium II 266MHz was state-of-the-art and RAM was expensive...) this was too slow!

Today I have a MiniDV-Handycam. So I bought Pinnacle Studio DV (incuding the firewire card).
Now we use A1700+ or faster, RAM is now cheap, everything should be fine. BUT:

Handling the capture process is perfect. You can control the camera by the Studio-software (forward, rewind ,play, record -> to harddisk). optimal!

Editing the movie in Studio 7 is really simple and effective. Again: optimal.

But: today I want to create VCD or SVCD. Output to DV isn't possible for me, because my handycam has no DV in and I do not want to collect MiniDV-tapes. CD-Rs are much cheaper.

Then comes the output: a disaster! The MPEG-Files created by Studio 7 present inacceptable quality.
An upgrade to Studio 8 brings nothing. The word "horrible" nearly describes the result.
Now I tried an alternative: save video as AVI, then encode to MPEG with TMPGenc. The result is much better, BUT: the quality is not acceptable, if you compare this to the original DV-quality.

I didn't bought the expensive handycam in order to watch inacceptable SVCD-quality.

Up to now I found no way, to convert the firewire-captured DV-movie to good SVCD-quality.

The good old copy of the movie over the S-VHS-connector to an SVHS-videorecorder shows the best quality.

If anybody had similar problems and solved them, I`ll be glad to hear about.

Bye
Ruediger

[donpedro]

RudiVVC, You are not going to like my answer but I did. I bought DVD burner and upgraded to Pinnacle Studio 8.

[twoages2]

Thanks guys.

Your answers help me a lot.
Until now I capture with VirtualDub, Huffyuv (recently I tested Scenalyzer = a great tool!!) and encode with TMPGenc to MPEG1 and MPEG2 (for VCD and SVCD). The results at usual rates (1150kbs and 2100kbs) are quiet satisfying. I just asked myself: "is realtime capture is better", because I'm getting an new configuration (2,4 Ghz, 180GB, 512RAM etc) with a DVD-burner and can create/burn files up to 6000kbs.
I wil continue AVI-capture and TPMGenc.


P.S.
Is upgrading from Studio7 to Studio8 recommanded?

[Brpod]

If you capture to AVI then you can use Nero to write to VCD. It will automatically re-encode the AVI file and fit it onto a disk, so long as it is shorter than 70mins (depending on the disk)

TTFN

[donpedro]

Studio 8 can author DVD, Studio 7 can't.

[Will Hay]

I may be wrong but I was under the impression you'd have to spend a small fortune on a realtime card to match the quality of huffyuv/picvideo avi/encoding.
Will

[ktnwin]

I capture via Firewire, then convert using TMPGEnc to make X/S/VCD. Quality is really great, very hard to tell from the original until.....I bought a HDTV (65" wide screen). X/S/VCD now show poor qualty on this screen although they look beautiful on a 50" or 32" tube TV.
Only DVD gives decent quality on HDTV.
So this tell me quality is pretty subjective (vary by person and equipments).
Commercial DVD look superb on the HDTV, however the DVD I made (using DMR-E30, a real time DVD recorder, 1 hour per DVD) still show some level of quality loss on the HDTV. Again my DVD look great on other TVs.
I still have to try the DVD writer path (using TMPGenc or Studio DV8 for conversion) and see if I get better DVD quality.

[BJ_M]

I may be wrong but I was under the impression you'd have to spend a small fortune on a realtime card to match the quality of huffyuv/picvideo avi/encoding.
Will

yes - pretty well

[Will Hay]

I may be wrong but I was under the impression you'd have to spend a small fortune on a realtime card to match the quality of huffyuv/picvideo avi/encoding.
Will

yes - pretty well

I don't remember asking if you were feeling okay
Pretty well what?

[Craig Tucker]

If you capture to AVI then you can use Nero to write to VCD. It will automatically re-encode the AVI file and fit it onto a disk, so long as it is shorter than 70mins (depending on the disk)

TTFN

Try TMPGEnc to encode, once you see the results you won't want Nero to do the encoding for you again.

Nero is good for burning, but it is a poor encoder.

[BJ_M]

I may be wrong but I was under the impression you'd have to spend a small fortune on a realtime card to match the quality of huffyuv/picvideo avi/encoding.
Will

yes - pretty well

I don't remember asking if you were feeling okay ;)
Pretty well what?

that you have to spend a small fortune .. i thought it was self-evident.

[donpedro]

BJ_M, It was

[MJPollard]

Studio 8 can author DVD, Studio 7 can't.

True, but Studio 8 has got some major problems in the DVD authoring department (many complaints on the Pinnacle webboard, though it works okay for some). The consensus seems to be that if you're using Studio 7, stick with it until Studio 8 stabilizes. I, of course, found out about this after I had purchased Studio 8...

BTW, longtime lurker, first-time poster here. I'm learning a lot!

[donpedro]

MJPollard, I am one of the "some"

You can find uot how I did make it to work here:

Pinnacle Studio 8 and DV home video editing

If you follow all sugestions (main one is clean Win install without any un-necessary junk)

[MJPollard]

MJPollard, I am one of the "some"

Heh. I did forget to mention that as a video editor, and if I don't do anything more than simple menus, Studio 8 works just fine for me. It's the more complex stuff that's been a bear, though I do have other solutions so it's not a hardship.

You can find uot how I did make it to work here:

Pinnacle Studio 8 and DV home video editing

If you follow all sugestions (main one is clean Win install without any un-necessary junk)

Thanks, I'll check it out! Always good to get advice from Those Who Have Gone Before Me.

[Will Hay]

I may be wrong but I was under the impression you'd have to spend a small fortune on a realtime card to match the quality of huffyuv/picvideo avi/encoding.
Will

yes - pretty well

I don't remember asking if you were feeling okay
Pretty well what?

that you have to spend a small fortune .. i thought it was self-evident.

Oops <hand slapped> Consider me 'well and truly chastised'!
Forgive me for seeking such offensive clarification (not bothering with an emoticon this time).
W.

[twoages2]

*G

Funny to see the diversity of reactions compared to my original question.
P.S. I tested Scenalyzer for capturing. Good tool!!

Undeed: Nero and Studio (and many others) encoding is very bad. TMPGenc is the best/cheap tool so far. Support these guys (they do a good Job) and buy the pro version ($48 )


Herman