Dazzle

[erichb]

I would like to get a Dell 8200 system.
With Dazzle analog to digital capture card.
And VideoWave software. But i have heard of many
problems, with this configuration. I Would like to know if
Dazzle is a decent card for capturing ? And possibly using different
software, not the VideoWave as this may be the cause of trouble.

[The village idiot]

Razzle (Dazzle) = EVIL

If it works, then you are fortunate. If it doesn't, you will regret your purchase for a long time! The tech. support from Razzle ABSOLUTELY SUCKS. Don't look to those idiots to solve anything.

Get a great huge hard drive, and a Canopus ADVC-50, or ADVC-100, or Datavideo DAC-100.

Good luck in making your choice, I hope all works out for you.

[henan]

I agree! Avoid Dazzle at any cost!

Dazzle's so called "support" just told me to contact the company that sold the card to me. Dazzle themselves didn't want to bother with me...

[tharris]

The Dazzle DVC-1 worked OK on my Dell PIII-450 but the VCD codec produces low quality (lots of blockiness) and editing MPEG1 has its own set of problems.

I tried the Dazzle DVD Creation Station 200 and that thing was a complete piece of junk; returned it to the store within a week as the software had huge problems - many bugs.

I almost gave up on editing video entirely until I got the Canopus ADVC 100 and the Canopus EZDV card. These work flawlessly on the same system and the Canopus VCD MPEG encoder creates incredible VCD MPEGs.

Avoid Dazzle.

[subclubkid]

Dell= over paying
Dazzle= shitty hardware
VideoWave= nightmare software

I will never again mess with a dazzle product or videowave software

just my 2 cents

[The village idiot]

HA HA HA! I hope Razzle reads this thread! I'm not trying to be vindictive, just honest!

If you really want to see some funny crap, I'll cut/paste what my email support looked like. Frelling idiots they are.

[tharris]

Dell= over paying
Dazzle= shitty hardware
VideoWave= nightmare software

I will never again mess with a dazzle product or videowave software

just my 2 cents

Isn't it nice when everything can be distilled down into such basic insight.

You are right, those comments are worth just 2 cents.

Here's a thought - put some substance behind your opinion otherwise why bother?

[solarfox]

OK -- substance.

I own a Dazzle DVbridge. It works... but only sometimes. It is prone to several peculiar and annoying behaviors, such as:

#1 -- an overly-sensitive Macrovision-detection circuit which can be tripped by even the slightest loss of sync, making it difficult to transfer old VHS recordings;

#2 -- an odd tendancy to disconnect itself from the IEEE1394 bus for no apparant reason;

#3 -- "failed to build a preview graph" errors during capturing in ULead Media Studio Pro (and yes, I do have the latest DirectX installed, as per ULead's recommendation) which makes it almost impossible to do seamless captures.

Dazzle has shown exactly zero interest in resolving any of these issues. They, too, simply referred me back to the seller which, of course, doesn't know anything about these products at all save what's written on the box. They also blame ULead's software for #3, and insist that I should use the editing software that came with the DVbridge; when I point out to them that I don't get these errors while capturing from my Sony camcorder, they still insist that ULead's software is at fault and I should use what came with the device.

[subclubkid]

Dell= over paying
Dazzle= shitty hardware
VideoWave= nightmare software

I will never again mess with a dazzle product or videowave software

just my 2 cents

Isn't it nice when everything can be distilled down into such basic insight.

You are right, those comments are worth just 2 cents.

Here's a thought - put some substance behind your opinion otherwise why bother?

What lacked the most substance?

My comment, wich was just opinion


or you knocking my comment because you didnt feel it was up to par.


Well heres at least 75 cents

Dell- I have a Dell, and I must say it is well over priced.

Dazzle- I once had a Dazzle, and I didnt like anything about it. It caused to many problems for me, and the quality of the captures were just ok.

VideoWave- I wouldnt wish this software onto my worst enemy. It flat out sucked. I returned it for my money, wich took forever to get worked out.

If you have sand in your v@gin@ wash it out.

[The village idiot]

I've tried several Razzle products, and own 2 (yeah, I'm a glutton for punishment). Never again Razzle. And as I said, if anyone wants to see my tech un-support, I'll gladly try to find it and cut/paste it. Is that enough substance?

[tharris]

Dell= over paying
Dazzle= shitty hardware
VideoWave= nightmare software

I will never again mess with a dazzle product or videowave software

just my 2 cents

What lacked the most substance?

My comment, wich was just opinion

or you knocking my comment because you didnt feel it was up to par.


Well heres at least 75 cents

Dell- I have a Dell, and I must say it is well over priced.

Dazzle- I once had a Dazzle, and I didnt like anything about it. It caused to many problems for me, and the quality of the captures were just ok.

VideoWave- I wouldnt wish this software onto my worst enemy. It flat out sucked. I returned it for my money, wich took forever to get worked out.

If you have sand in your v@gin@ wash it out.

What lacked the most substance?

Lets see:

"Dell=Overpaying" - what does that mean? Can YOU build a comparable system for less; the economics would suggest you can't as Dell gets huge discounts for components due to volume purchase. Sure, you can find sales off retail, use auctions, etc. but time has value and so does a warranty. The fact is, most people do not have the technical expertice to build a computer and don't even have a clue about how to fix it. Some have the opinion that support has value, especially for non-power users, but I suppose we can also argue if Dell has "good" support.

"Dazzle = shitty hardware" - I don't disagree that Dazzle, especially products following the DVC-1, are problematic. As I said in my previous post, my experience with Dazzle left alot to be desired, especially with the Creation Station 200 and I ended up returning that box. If it weren't for discovering Canopus and VCDhelp, Dazzle would have been the end of the road for video editing.

"Videoware = nightmare software" - OK, again, an opinion, but why?

Finally - "If you have sand in your v@gin@ wash it out." Great advice if you are in that situation but unclear on what this has to do with Dazzle and video editing.

The point is the value of forums come from substantive dialog. Everyone has an opinion but if you aren't adding value, a flame post may be amusing, but it is really just more static.

To the The Village Idiot: Please post your tech un-support. No doubt anyone considering Dazzle would be interested.

[Craig Tucker]

Dell=Overpaying" - what does that mean? Can YOU build a comparable system for less; the economics would suggest you can't as Dell gets huge discounts for components due to volume purchase. Sure, you can find sales off retail, use auctions, etc. but time has value and so does a warranty. The fact is, most people do not have the technical expertice to build a computer and don't even have a clue about how to fix it. Some have the opinion that support has value, especially for non-power users, but I suppose we can also argue if Dell has "good" support.

No, I can build a better system for less and specify the exact components that I want to use. Once you try to build your own system you will find that is far easier than you may of first imagined. People buy from companies like Dell because it is easy, they dont have to source the components themselves, they dont have to build it themselves and install the operating system. Anyone serious about computers and who knows what they want, will build themselves, as they can tailor the machine to their exact requirements for a very reasonable price.

Those that dont have the technical expertise to build their own pc (although there really isn't that much required), buy a Dell (or other prebuilt PC). Those that do build their own. Once you have built your first one, you will never buy a prebuilt PC again.

I realise that Dell is in the upper price bracket for prebuilt PC's presumably because they use better quality components, I don't know I have never looked inside one. But I have friends that have bought Tiny and Time PC's and once you take the lid off you realise why the PC was so cheap - All the components are cheap. Baby ATX Motherboards with only 2 PCI slots. Onboard graphics and sound, no spare expansion bays, cheap flimsy cases, etc. Basically if you want value for money, build your own.

[tharris]

I agree with you that someone with technical expertise can build their own PC and tailor it to their exact requirements. I also agree that PCs boil down to many off the shelf components which is why they are known as commodity equipment.

Whether or not you can build a PC with the same or very similar specs cheaper than a company, like Dell, that is able to acquire those same commodity components at large discounts off of list/retail prices is something I would debate.

Taking it further, there is also value in the time it takes to research and acquire the components as well as the assembly and problem diagnostic time to build the PC. The warranty/support has value even if you are a power user capable of building your own PC and choose not to.

I have no doubt that you can realize a certain level of satisfaction with the knowledge that you built your own PC but would argue that most PC users do not have this ability, have no interest, and simply want a box that works.

I also agree that Dell is in the upper price bracket for a prebuilt PC because, at least for the 4550, 8200, and 8250 top notch components can be specified and tailored to a certain narrow degree in the configuration (ex: Soundblaster or not, onboard video or not, DVD burner, etc).

Companies like Dell also compete in the value space as well and I would argue that it is tough to configure a $600 Intel box, with monitor and printer, at retail component prices. Given that the CPU is one of the most expensive components, it is going to be tough to put a comparable value system together for under $600.

Arguing in your favor, lets take a look at the boxes offered by http://www.alienware.com This company actually targets the power gamer and user who likely DO have the technical skills to build their own box. Not only can you tailor the box with many combinations of top notch components, they charge a premium for the priviledge, end product, and higher level of customer service/support.

So, whether you can build a "better" system for less is really a matter of perspective. I agree there is value in the exercise and the satisfaction gained but it does not necessarily translate into $s saved.

Statements like "Dell=overpaying" that subclubkid eloquently stated are too simplistic and do not take into account the requirements of a given customer. If I buy an Alienware system for a premium price of $500-700 over a similar Dell system or one that I built does that mean I overpaid?

If you value a top notch system with excellent components and customer service, may be not as the $ difference is not always measured in pure hardware $s as that customer has different requirements than someone mearly buying on the value end of the argument.

[va_bank]

I think Dazzle should merge with Pinnacle, this way they can have editing software that is as sh**ty as their hardware.

You probably work hard for your money, they don't deserve it.

[Craig Tucker]

tharris

"Dell gets huge discounts for components due to volume purchase".

Do you think component suppliers can't get discounts due to their volume purchases ?

Do you think Dell assembles their machines for the good of the consumer or do you think they are making a tidy profit ?

I think out of all the prebuit PC suppliers out there Dell are probrably one of the better ones. But then you get what you pay for, and Dell's aint cheap.

[subclubkid]

I didnt Flame anybody.

The guy was aking about what it would take to do some good capturing. He said he was looking at a Dell, and the dazzle product it came with. And Dazzle products come with Video Wave (last time I checked at least).

So I was making a small statement.

I didnt knock Dell. I own a Dell, and thats why I said "over priced" because I was a begginer and I bought one and now I feel I overpayed. I will put my next computer together on my own. And when I do I will customize it for all my needs.

I did knock Dazzle and Video Wave. And you yourself said Dazzle products arent that good. So I dont understand the debate there. I might have said it meaner than you....well a duck is a duck any way you call it.

Then there is Videwave. The software really stinks. It dosent do anything it says it can. I bought Videowave for my first video software and it even made me give up on everything for a while. Ulead quickly made me realize that I could do things really fast, it was just the software that sucked.

Your the one who felt the need to single out my comments. You asked for substance with a post that lacked more then my original. I gave you substance. And you still came back for more. So calm down, relax, start breathing......its going to be ok.

[tharris]

tharris

"Dell gets huge discounts for components due to volume purchase".

Do you think component suppliers can't get discounts due to their volume purchases ?

Do you think Dell assembles their machines for the good of the consumer or do you think they are making a tidy profit ?

I think out of all the prebuit PC suppliers out there Dell are probrably one of the better ones. But then you get what you pay for, and Dell's aint cheap.

So the question becomes: who gets the biggest discount and what is it going to cost you in real world $s to build a comparable system.

If you are going to buy a hard drive for your system and you want 1 drive from component supplier X vs. Dell who either buys thousands of the same drive direct from the manufacturor or component supplier X then who do you think is going to get the better deal?

I know what % my company gets off of network hardware list and we do over a million $s per year with them in addition to State agencies working off the same contract direct with the manufacturor and no one, short of the telcos, can cut a better deal. Volume = component discount.

Even if we bought our gear from an independent component supplier with the same volume, we would not get it for less than we do off our current contract because even with the discount the independent gets they can not offer it to us within margins acceptable to them without incurring a loss (in other words they need a margin as well).

Since we are talking about a value equation, the bottom line for you is how much are you going to pay for the hardware? I seriously doubt you are going to be able to cut a deal on the components that will allow you to break even or save significant $s over buying a comparable system from a large vendor.

Obviously Dell is making a profit otherwise there is no reason for their existence as they are not doing it out of the kindness of their heart and do not have non-profit status.

So the question becomes, are they adding $s to what they pay for the component over what you could get it for? We would need to know what their margin is.

I agree with you that many times you do get what you pay for and from my perspective, it does not boil down to a simple equation that states "Dell=over paying". It really depends on what your requirements are.

[Craig Tucker]

Since we are talking about a value equation, the bottom line for you is how much are you going to pay for the hardware? I seriously doubt you are going to be able to cut a deal on the components that will allow you to break even or save significant $s over buying a comparable system from a large vendor.

Well, as they say the proof is in the pudding so I have gone to the trouble of pricing a system from Dell, and comparing this with components from a supplier I regularly use. CCL Computers.

The specification is for a Dell Dimension 8200 2.0GHz. The prices next to the components are from CCL's pricelist. Dell do not list the price of their components individually.

Dells Website

CCL Computers Website

P4 Motherboard with onboard sound £55.58
Mini Tower Case £21.39
Floppy Drive £8.02
P4 2GHZ 512k cache £144.97
256Mb Rambus RD ram £75.67
40Gb UDMA Hard Drive £64.63
17" CRT Monitor £89.30
16Mb ATI Rage Pro Video Card £20.46
40/10/40 CD-RW £45.89
Windows XP Home £71.29
Microsoft Works 6.0 £19.50
Entry Level PS2 Keyboard £6.82
Entry Level PS2 2 button mouse £4.64

Total Price of components from CCL Computers = £628.16
Price of a Dell Dimension 8200 2.0GHz = £971.73

Making a total saving of £343.57

And this was just searching through one suppliers price list very quicky, if I put in any serious effort I could probrably source some components even cheaper.

So I stand by my first statement, I can not only match the specification of a Dell machine for the same price. If i wanted to I could far exceed the specification.

You still sure it's not worth building one yourself.

[John Pilkinton]

Here's my 22,999 cents in US currency(The price of my DVDDCS)

I guess I'm the only person in the world with a working Dazzle DVD Creation Station. I also own a Dazzle DVC-80 w/ VideoWave, and yes that one SUCKS! A/V out of whack. I love my Razzle Dazzle. As far as Dell.....
they are supposed to be the best priced pc's out there. Just stay the hell away from them damn E-Machines. My wife had 3 of them right after the other. Continous software/hardware problems. Tek Support sucked. Kinda like ya'll described for Dazzle.

[Craig Tucker]

tharris

Just in case you are wondering how this £343.57 saving relates to an increase in specification, I have done this for you as well.

These are extras I could specify on a hombuilt machine over and above what you would get on a combarable priced Dell.

Upgrade to a 2.4 GHz P4, extra £26.11
Upgrade to 512Mb ram, extra £75.67
Upgrade to 120Gb hard drive, extra £69.80
Upgrade to 64Mb ATI Radeon 7000 Vid card, extra £12.83
Upgrade to a Pioneer DVR-A04 DVD-R, DVD-RW Burner, extra £178.49

Total price for homebuilt (far superior PC) £991.47

Admittedly this is £20 more than the Dell, but I have included a DVD burner which takes up a large chunk of the extra cost. If you weren't interested in a DVD burner you could include an ATI All in wonder 8500DV and a soundblaster audigy player and still come in with a better price than the Dell at only £962.63.

So Dell are charging you quite a premium for assembling your PC. And lets face it if you couldn't build your own PC for less than you could buy a preassembled one, who would bother.

[tharris]

Well, as they say the proof is in the pudding so I have gone to the trouble of pricing a system from Dell, and comparing this with components from a supplier I regularly use. CCL Computers.

The specification is for a Dell Dimension 8200 2.0GHz. The prices next to the components are from CCL's pricelist. Dell do not list the price of their components individually.

Dells Website

CCL Computers Website

P4 Motherboard with onboard sound £55.58
Mini Tower Case £21.39
Floppy Drive £8.02
P4 2GHZ 512k cache £144.97
256Mb Rambus RD ram £75.67
40Gb UDMA Hard Drive £64.63
17" CRT Monitor £89.30
16Mb ATI Rage Pro Video Card £20.46
40/10/40 CD-RW £45.89
Windows XP Home £71.29
Microsoft Works 6.0 £19.50
Entry Level PS2 Keyboard £6.82
Entry Level PS2 2 button mouse £4.64

Total Price of components from CCL Computers = £628.16
Price of a Dell Dimension 8200 2.0GHz = £971.73

Making a total saving of £343.57

And this was just searching through one suppliers price list very quicky, if I put in any serious effort I could probrably source some components even cheaper.

So I stand by my first statement, I can not only match the specification of a Dell machine for the same price. If i wanted to I could far exceed the specification.

You still sure it's not worth building one yourself.

craigtucker:

I priced what appears to be the same 8200 system you speced off of
the Dell website this morning and am getting a significantly different
cost from what you specified:

Dimension 8200 2.0GHz Includes CD-RW!
£649 excluding VAT, £762.58 including VAT

Standard Features: Mini Tower Chassis
3.5" 1.44 Floppy Drive
Norton AntiVirus 2002 (with 90 days free virus updates)

Online Offer!: Please Click Below to Receive Discount

Enhanced Support Packs: 1 Year Collect and Return Service (-GBP - £129)

Processor Upgrade: Intel Pentium 4 Processor 2.0GHz with 512K Cache
Memory: 256MB Rambus RDRAM
Hard Drive: 40GB Ultra Hard Drive
Monitor: Dell Value 17" (15.9" VIS) FST Monitor
Home Installation: Not Included
Video Card: 16MB ATI Rage Pro 128 Video Card
Optical Device: 40/10/40 CD-RW
ZIP Drive Options: Not Included
Sound Card: On-Board Sound
Speakers: Not Included

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows XP Home Edition (Why not upgrade to Windows® XP Professional?)

Network Card: Not Included
Modem: Not Included
High Speed Internet Connection: Not Included
Software: Microsoft Works 6.0
Mouse: Entry Level PS2 Keyboard
Mouse: Dell Logitech PS/2 2 Btn Mouse

Your CCL price is £628.16 and Dell is £649 or £762 depending on whether you include VAT. I suspect the price difference you saw with the Dell pricing was due to their enhanced support package but since we are tech gurus, tech support is added cost even though Dell is providing a basic support package with this specification.

There is a total difference between CCL do it yourself and Dell prebuilt of £20.84 using Dell's no-VAT price or £133.84 using Dell's VAT price. I'm not clear on when VAT is applied but for arguments sake, lets assume the worst cast difference of £133.84.

Is the £20.84 or £133.84 a big enough pure hardware cost difference to justify the time (which is not included in our analysis) to build it and support it yourself? For most people, the answer is probably no as evidenced by the existence of companies like Alienware that configure high end systems at an even higher premium over cost and target power users/gurus who can build it themselves.

[Craig Tucker]

Well if you take off the warranty which was one of your reasons for a Dell. The price including VAT and Delivery is £820.15 (lets not forget the delivery charge now). The prices I quoted for CCL computers include VAT and Delivery so you are still £191.99 more expensive. I don't know about you, but I know it takes me longer than the couple of hours it would take to build the PC to earn £191.99.

You stated that I would not be able to match or undercut the price of a Dell with that of a home built PC, because of Dells superior buying power. I think I have proved beyond any doubt that I can (and so can anyone else). So lets not move the goalposts now and ask if any saving I can make is worth it. Because to me any saving is worth it. Oh and if you really did'nt fancy building the PC yourself CCL will assemble it for you for £25. But for the sake of an hour or two assembly time I would still rather do it myself.

[idTV Nico]

I´m happy, to be on the lucky side:

Bought my Canopus ADVC 100 one month ago - I even captured 7 hours without one dropped frame - could capture even months, if my harddisk was big enough.

Really cool thing, not the cheapest, but RELIABLE! and very good quality.

This is not only the best capture device, it is the ONLY capture device I know, that really works on every system.

Have fun capturing :c)
idTV Nico

[Craig Tucker]

Is the £20.84 or £133.84 a big enough pure hardware cost difference to justify the time (which is not included in our analysis) to build it and support it yourself? For most people, the answer is probably no as evidenced by the existence of companies like Alienware that configure high end systems at an even higher premium over cost and target power users/gurus who can build it themselves.

For people who use thier PC's seriously, who want more than just a wordprocessor and something to surf the web with (i.e. most of the people on this board). I would disagree, and this VCDHelp poll would seem to back me up.

[jeepers94]

I live in the USA,and up until this week bought Dells.They are not what I consider overpriced! I bought an 8200/2.53ghz,1 gig rdram,120 gig Maxtor HD,16x LiteOn DVD,NEC 40x cdrw,firewire card,Turtle Beach sound card,and the GeForce 4 ti4600 video card.Total with 4 year warranty,after rebate $1504.I then bought a Planar 19" flat panel for
$624.Grand total $2128 shipped.In the USA,I can't say about elsewhere,
if you watch the online sales you can save BIG! I saved over $1000 off this system.I have built systems since before ms-dos,and I do build a few systems,with my spare parts.By the way I put together a Dell 4550,with 15" lcd for $550.
I also have an Alienware P4/1.8 gig system.I CAN build a hell of a lot better system for half the cost of these ! I got mine in trade.All though it
uses name brand parts,some of these parts do not work well together.
I feel the folks at Alienware did not test the compatability of the components very well! I have just ordered 14 Gateway systems,because of Dells delivery problems.I have had very few coplaints with Dells quality,or price!

[Greg12]

I have a DV-Bridge and it works 90% of the time. I use it for 30 minute captures and i can't complain to much. My dazzle is behind an IEE Repeater box which also hosts my DVD-RW.

I have to say Dell is good about warrenties.