Slowdown Time-compressed cartoons

[vidga45]

Dear VideoHelp members.

I have a question that i can't seem to figure out.
A few years back i bought a DVD set from Captain N the Game Master by Shout Factory.
Recently with finding old TV recordings I discovered that the DVD episodes contained various changes compared to the original broadcasts.
Music was replaced due to licensing issues and some scenes where missing.

I wanted to try and recreate the missing opening teasers and combine the DVD and VHS audio to recreate the show like it aired on TV.
But the problem i'm running into is that the broadcast TV episodes are time compressed to fit in more commercials and there for run slightly faster than the DVD episodes.
This makes it impossible for me to combine the audio and frame accurately recreate the opening teasers unless i somehow can figure out how to slowdown the TV episodes so the frame accurately match the DVD episodes.

So my question is is it possible to slowdown the VHS source so the audio and video frame accurately match my DVD episodes?

Note: the TV recordings i found are not the most ideal to work with.
The have been deinterlaced and are pretty bad quality.
The also have a different length because the VHS sources begin with a teaser trailer which is not included on the DVD's.

I currently tried to slowdown the VHS source using Avisynth to recreate the teaser.
I don't know much about changing the audio but i tried to adjust the tempo in Audacity but i have no clue how to figure out the correct tempo

# IMPORT VIDEO FILES
VHS = FFVideoSource("CaptainNVHS.mp4")
DVD = MPEG2Source("CAPTAIN_N_1.Title4.d2v", cpu=0)

# Resize the VHS video to match the DVD
VHS = BicubicResize(VHS, 720, 480)

# Select VHS teaser
VHS_teaser = Trim(VHS, 0, 462)

# locate the same scenes in the DVD video to recreate the VHS teaser
black_frames = BlankClip(DVD).Trim(0, 14)
part1 = Trim(DVD, 26628, 26876)
part2 = Trim(DVD, 19907, 20363)
DVD_teaser_remake = black_frames++part1++part2

# ?? Slowdown the VHS source ??
# Have no clue how to correctly speed this up
# The following filters made it look closer to the DVD speed but it's doesn't frame accurately match
VHS_teaser_speed_up = AssumeFPS(VHS_teaser, 19.4100).ChangeFPS(DVD)

# Compare
StackHorizontal(VHS_teaser_speed_up, DVD_teaser_remake)

I attached the output from my Avisynth script.
Also I don't know if i'm allowed to post here a raw DVD and VHS sample from the episode ?

[Brad]

Assuming it was originally film rate, to get the frames to literally match throughout, you would have to figure out how to undo the sped-up pulldown, which is complicated enough when the video hasn't already been deinterlaced. It may not be possible at all now.

Yes you can post short samples of the sources. Try to find a scene with lots of continuous movement: camera pans etc.

[manono]

No one wants to see what you did with it. Just the VHS tape source. Unfortunately, because it was deinterlaced it makes it more difficult, if not impossible, to discover the framerate at which they're playing. Your DVD has been hard telecined so it's easy to IVTC it to 23.976fps. If, for example, your television captures have been speeded up to 25fps, and if you can figure that out accurately, it's a simple matter to slow both the video and audio to 23.976fps. Ordinarily they do this time compression crap by removing fields, and with the capture already deinterlaced it becomes a much more difficult chore to discover what was done to it.

Anyway, if you could provide a sample of your lousy tape source before you messed it up even more, that would be nice.

Oh, vaporeon800 said pretty much the same thing while I was fooling around with this thing.

[vidga45]

First of all thanks for the quick replies.

Here are two clips i made.
I DGindex the DVD Audiodub the audio to it and trimmed it in Avisynth.
Then i used Virtualdub video / audio direct stream copy.

The raw VHS source i found was a MP4 which i opened in Avisynth using FFVideoSouce and FFAudioSource.
Again i also trimmed this one and used Virtualdub for the direct stream copy.

I hope this is the correct way to make a raw clips.


DVD:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-OCwR3XUA_YRmhOMFFJUXo4NTQ/view?usp=sharing

VHS:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-OCwR3XUA_YRExhby1YU3dIVlU/view?usp=sharing

[jagabo]

I DGindex the DVD Audiodub the audio to it and trimmed it in Avisynth.
Then i used Virtualdub video / audio direct stream copy.

You should have used Save Project And Demux Video in DgIndex, then uploaded the M2V (MPEG 2 video) file.

The raw VHS source i found was a MP4 which i opened in Avisynth using FFVideoSouce and FFAudioSource.
Again i also trimmed this one and used Virtualdub for the direct stream copy.

That's wrong too. You can just use an MP4 cut/paste editor to trim out a small section. I rarely output anything in MP4 so I don't know what tool is best.

But if you didn't do any other filtering the two videos have the same underlying frame rate -- the runtime is the same once they are synchronized.

Both have problems with duplicate and missing frames. But that's common in the opening sequence of cartoons because the video is often synced to the audio after being telecined. FWIW, here's a script I used to match the two over the entire video:

DVD = AviSource("C:\Users\John\Downloads\CPDVD.avi") 
VHS = AviSource("C:\Users\John\Downloads\CPVHS.avi")

DVD = DVD.AssumeTFF.TFM().TDecimate(cycle=15, cycleR=2)
VHS = VHS.TRIM(3,0).TDecimate(mode=2, rate=26.00)
VHS = VHS.Spline36Resize(DVD.width, DVD.height).AssumeFPS(DVD)

StackHorizontal(DVD, VHS)

That doesn't match frame-for-frame but they're in sync overall. And the DVD video is fairly smooth, although at an odd frame rate of 25.974 fps.

[vidga45]

Hi Jagabo,

You should have used Save Project And Demux Video in DgIndex, then uploaded the M2V (MPEG 2 video) file.

Your absolutely right, sorry i totally forgot i could just use DGindex to trim and demux the DVD to M2V.

You can just use an MP4 cut/paste editor to trim out a small section. I rarely output anything in MP4 so I don't know what tool is best.

As for the MP4 i usually never edit these files but in this case it's the only VHS source i could find recorded from TV.
It's not my capture i found the mp4 video in a torrent.
I have never had to trim a MP4 before so i didn't know what program to use either.

But if you didn't do any other filtering the two videos have the same underlying frame rate -- the runtime is the same once they are synchronized.

Thats correct i didn't do any other filtering to the two videos besides using Avisynth to open and Virtualdub to direct stream copy the videos to Avi.

Both have problems with duplicate and missing frames. But that's common in the opening sequence of cartoons because the video is often synced to the audio after being telecined. FWIW, here's a script I used to match the two over the entire video:

DVD = AviSource("C:\Users\John\Downloads\CPDVD.avi") 
VHS = AviSource("C:\Users\John\Downloads\CPVHS.avi")

DVD = DVD.AssumeTFF.TFM().TDecimate(cycle=15, cycleR=2)
VHS = VHS.TRIM(3,0).TDecimate(mode=2, rate=26.00)
VHS = VHS.Spline36Resize(DVD.width, DVD.height).AssumeFPS(DVD)

StackHorizontal(DVD, VHS)

That doesn't match frame-for-frame but they're in sync overall. And the DVD video is fairly smooth, although at an odd frame rate of 25.974 fps.

Hmm that's interesting also that's one weird frame rate for a NTSC DVD then again it is a very old tv show from 1989.
I guess this is probably the only way to sync the videos?
It's probably not possible to keep the DVD video untouched and only TDecimate the VHS source to play in sync with the original interlaced DVD video ?
Also regarding the audio would it be possible for example in Audacity to sync the VHS audio to the DVD ?
Without making changes to the DVD audio ?
I think i should do something with the Tempo but i have no idea how to figure out the correct values.

I uploaded the raw DVD and VHS audio
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-OCwR3XUA_YSUc2SzB6eGMteDA/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-OCwR3XUA_YMDdwMndjZVg4aFU/view?usp=sharing

In the VHS audio there's specific part where thriller is being played on the background.
The DVD has some other instrumental song.
So i want to try and sync the VHS audio to the DVD so i can edit in the original TV music.

Please note the reason why i wanted to have the VHS video sync the DVD was so i could recreate the teaser frame accurately but sins it seems like the only way to sync both videos is by altering both the DVD and VHS i might just forget about that.
Sins I don't really want to change the frame rate from the DVD source.

[jagabo]

TFM and TDecimate don't change the running length of the video and therefor don't require any changes to the audio. The only change I made that required changing the audio is the Trim. I removed 3 frames so about 90 ms of audio would have to be removed too.

Sure you can match the VHS audio to the DVD video. But...

For the full audio tracks, the difference isn't just the starting point and that one was linearly sped up. They both have the same pitch and various sections sync once you move the VHS tracks earlier. But different shifts are required for different sections. So the DVD has some shots removed or otherwise shortened. To match the VHS audio to the DVD video you'll have to figure out exactly where those changes are and adjust the audio to suit. You can't simply trim and time-shorten the VHS audio to match the DVD video.