Want to replace DVDShrink/AGK with Handbrake

[njitgrad]

Handbrake newbie here....still having problems using HB to back up my DVDs into MP4 files (for playback on my networked Samsung HDTVs via my Synology NAS).

Today I used HB (right after ripping with DVDFab) and created an MP4 using the High Quality preset. Although it plays fine, my resulting MP4 file has an aspect ratio issue when played on my Samsung TVs.

However if I use DVDFab then DVDShrink then AGK to create an Xvid AVI and use that AVI file as an input to HB, the resulting MP4 file play fine and looks fine minus the large horizontal bars across the top and bottom of my screen.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong here?

Here are some screen shots of file specs:

What HB tells me about the source (the folder produced by DVD Fab):



What Windows Explorer tells me about the resulting MP4 file (that was created by HB without using DVDShink & AGK). This MP4 file has an aspect ratio isssue when played back on my TVs


What Windows Explorer tells me about the resulting MP4 file (that was created by HB using the AVI file from AGK as the source):


Obviously AGK changed the dimensions more drastically than HB resulting in the correct aspect ratio. The frame height is 52 pixels shorter. Why didn't the HB preset automatically do this for me? Is there something about HB's High Quality preset that I need to change? If the original source is 720x480, why can't the resulting file be 720x480? Is this because a DVD player automatically changes when it plays it back to a TV? If someone can explain this to me I would be very grateful. Right now I'm just very confused.

[redwudz]

I would try VidCoder instead of Handbrake. It's a front end for the Handbrake program that works much better and is easy to set up.
I primarily encode DVDs to MKV with AC3 audio, but MP4 is OK.

In VidCoder leave everything at default except for setting 'Detelecine' and 'Decomb' to default. I set the encoder to 'Constant Quality' of 19.5 and a 'Constant Framerate'.
I encode the DVDs directly from the optical drive. Takes about 15 minutes with my PC. I use AnyDVD HD for decryption. Quality is good on a 12' video projection screen.

I would try similar settings for MP4 and see how they look before making any other adjustments.

[njitgrad]

I would try VidCoder instead of Handbrake. It's a front end for the Handbrake program that works much better and is easy to set up.
I primarily encode DVDs to MKV with AC3 audio, but MP4 is OK.

In VidCoder leave everything at default except for setting 'Detelecine' and 'Decomb' to default. I set the encoder to 'Constant Quality' of 19.5 and a 'Constant Framerate'.
I encode the DVDs directly from the optical drive. Takes about 15 minutes with my PC. I use AnyDVD HD for decryption. Quality is good on a 12' video projection screen.

I would try similar settings for MP4 and see how they look before making any other adjustments.

Will give it a shot. Thanks for the suggestion. I believe I used that app before for something else.

[newpball]

Handbrake newbie here....still having problems using HB to back up my DVDs into MP4 files (for playback on my networked Samsung HDTVs via my Synology NAS).

Why?
Is mpeg2 not supported on the Samsung?

[njitgrad]

I would try VidCoder instead of Handbrake. It's a front end for the Handbrake program that works much better and is easy to set up.
I primarily encode DVDs to MKV with AC3 audio, but MP4 is OK.

In VidCoder leave everything at default except for setting 'Detelecine' and 'Decomb' to default. I set the encoder to 'Constant Quality' of 19.5 and a 'Constant Framerate'.
I encode the DVDs directly from the optical drive. Takes about 15 minutes with my PC. I use AnyDVD HD for decryption. Quality is good on a 12' video projection screen.

I would try similar settings for MP4 and see how they look before making any other adjustments.

Did not work. It created an MP4 file with the same dimensions as the other .mp4 file (that I had created without the AGK AVI file) as input.

See screenshot below.

[Dougster]

Are you sure you want crop the image for your application? That may be your problem.

[njitgrad]

Dougster, these are the default settings for VidCoder's "High Profile" Preset. When I disable cropping it produces an mp4 file that was centered on my screen (bars on all four sides now) and still had the aspect ratio wrong.

The only way I can get this to work is by using AGK first to create an AVI file, which is then converted to an MP4 via HB. At least AGK knows to how to make the AVI file the right aspect ratio. However I want to avoid having the unnecessary step of making the AVI file with AGK. It should be noted that doing it this way created an MP4 file that had very wide bars across the top and bottom. I don't see why I can't create a file that will more or less fit my screen completely while having the right aspect ratio with no distortion in the actors' faces.

[njitgrad]

Interesting....after a bit more testing I realized that the HB-generated MP4 files play fine in all three of my newer Samsung TVs (2011 and newer). These three TVs connect directly to my NAS via my LAN. However when playing back the same file on the 2009 model (which can only connect to my NAS using DLNA) I get the distorted faces in the picture. Can anyone explain why?

[hello_hello]

The video in question needs horizontal bars top and bottom. There's 62 pixels worth on top and 62 on bottom that VidCoder is removing (according to the pic in post #5), and the output aspect ratio of the video itself is 2.40:1 (853/356). Your TV screen is 1.7777 (16:9). The only way for a 2.40:1 picture to display correctly on a 16:9 screen without stretching or zooming (and your TV might have a zoom but if it does I'd disable it for testing until you know what's working correctly) is to have black bars top and bottom (they're cropped/removed when encoding, but the player should add them back on playback so the shape of the actual picture remains the same).

A 2.40:1 video on a 16:9 screen should look something like this:


AutoGK confirms this. It crops the black bars and then resizes your video to square pixels (that's how it resizes), so the resolution and aspect ratio are the same. It resized to 720x304 and 720/304 = 2.37:1. AutoGK probably cropped a little differently to Vidcoder so as not to distort the picture when resizing which is why it's not exactly 2.40:1 but don't worry about that for now. DVDs don't use square pixels so the aspect ratio and resolution are different but don't worry about that for now either.

So if the AutoGK encode displays without black bars top and bottom it's displaying incorrectly. I don't connect my TV over a network but while the TVs are displaying the video in question try pressing the Tools button on the remote and if there's a picture size option you probably want "mode 1". Mode 2 will stretch the picture to fill the screen (evil unless the picture is supposed to be 16:9).

If you encode the DVD used in your pic in post #5 with Vidcoder, try changing the anamorphic option to "anamorphic none" (the video will be resized to square pixels just like AutoGK does it) and change the resizing to around 854x356 if need be. That'll be the about the same aspect ratio as AutoGK, but with a higher resolution, however both should display the same way (black bars top and bottom).

720x304 = 2.37:1
854x356 = 2.39:1

When they display correctly with black bars top and bottom, by adjusting whatever TV/player settings need to be adjusted, then you can move onto using anamorphic encoding with Vidcoder and discover the joy of anamorphic video probably not displaying correctly, but from the information you've posted so far it appears when you think the video is displaying correctly it's not, and when you think it isn't, it is. I think......

[hello_hello]

After re-reading some of the posts I think maybe I've got it the wrong way around and the AutoGK encode is displaying correctly (with black bars top and bottom), and if you resize to square pixels when encoding with Vidcoder ("anamorphic none" as per my previous post) it should also display correctly, in which case it's the anamorphic encoded video that isn't displaying correctly (when using "anamorphic loose" etc) but I'm not sure. That'd be typical for a Samsung player but I'm not sure. If you could clarify when you return......

[njitgrad]

The video in question needs horizontal bars top and bottom. There's 62 pixels worth on top and 62 on bottom that VidCoder is removing (according to the pic in post #5), and the output aspect ratio of the video itself is 2.40:1 (853/356). Your TV screen is 1.7777 (16:9). The only way for a 2.40:1 picture to display correctly on a 16:9 screen without stretching or zooming (and your TV might have a zoom but if it does I'd disable it for testing until you know what's working correctly) is to have black bars top and bottom (they're cropped/removed when encoding, but the player should add them back on playback so the shape of the actual picture remains the same).

Knowing that most if not all TVs these days are 16:9, why is the DVD source footage in such a wide aspect ratio? What confuses me is that HB indicates that the source is really 720x480 when I open the source DVD folder. I need to a little lesson in aspect ratios, why there are many types, and how a playback device knows how to take a 720x480 source and play it in the aspect ratio it was intended to be displayed on.

AutoGK confirms this. It crops the black bars and then resizes your video to square pixels (that's how it resizes), so the resolution and aspect ratio are the same. It resized to 720x304 and 720/304 = 2.37:1.

If AGK does this automatically, why doesn't HB?



But what doesn't add up to my is why can my newer TVs can play the MP4 file created by HB in the correct aspect ratio but my older TV (which only has the choice of receiving the video stream via DLNA) displays an incorrect aspect ratio. How do the newer TVs know to display it correctly?

[hello_hello]

The video in question needs horizontal bars top and bottom. There's 62 pixels worth on top and 62 on bottom that VidCoder is removing (according to the pic in post #5), and the output aspect ratio of the video itself is 2.40:1 (853/356). Your TV screen is 1.7777 (16:9). The only way for a 2.40:1 picture to display correctly on a 16:9 screen without stretching or zooming (and your TV might have a zoom but if it does I'd disable it for testing until you know what's working correctly) is to have black bars top and bottom (they're cropped/removed when encoding, but the player should add them back on playback so the shape of the actual picture remains the same).

Knowing that most if not all TVs these days are 16:9, why is the DVD source footage in such a wide aspect ratio? What confuses me is that HB indicates that the source is really 720x480 when I open the source DVD folder. I need to a little lesson in aspect ratios, why there are many types, and how a playback device knows how to take a 720x480 source and play it in the aspect ratio it was intended to be displayed on.

All NTSC DVDs are 720x480. They're either squished to 4:3 on playback or stretched to 16:9 (1.777777), depending on whether they're a 4:3 or 16:9 DVD. The aspect ratio is stored in the video stream (for the purpose of the discussion).

If they're 16:9 and the picture has a wider aspect ratio than 16:9, it's encoded with black bars top and bottom, however it's still 720x480 and 16:9, but that's including the black bars.
If the black bars are removed when you encode the resolution is no longer 720x480. If there was 62 pixels worth of black at the top and 62 at the bottom, what you're left with is 720x356.

Remember for a 16:9 DVD the picture is stretched to 16:9, so if you translate that to square pixel dimensions the 720x480 DVD is stretched to 852x480 on playback to display correctly. 852/480 = 1.777777 (not quite, but for the purpose of the discussion I'll stick to whole numbers for the resolution).
Your cropped DVD would be stretched the same way, but you've removed the black bars top and bottom and the height remaining is only 356, so it's not 852x480, it's 852x356, and 852/356 = 2.40:1.

After you've cropped the black bars you can encode it two ways. You can encode it at 720x356, but for it to display correctly the player needs to stretch it to 852x356, add back the black bars for 852x480 (16:9), then upscale it to fill the screen (effectively), but for the 2.40:1 video to display correctly, it still needs the black bars top and bottom so the total resolution is 16:9 again, assuming you have a 16:9 TV. Encoding at 720x356 and stretching to 852x356 on playback is called anamorphic encoding. The aspect ratio is written to the video stream.

The alternative is not to use anamorphic encoding. You resize to square pixels first, then encode. These days you'd probably resize to 852x356 after the black bars are removed and encode. When AutoGK ruled the world, the maximum width was generally 720 pixels, so instead of stretching the width and resizing to 852x356, it'd reduce the height and resize to 720x304 or thereabouts after removing the black bars. The same principle applies though. 852x356 and 720x304 aren't 16:9 so the black bars need to be added back on playback for a total aspect ratio of 16:9 if you have a 16:9 TV.

Not all 16:9 DVDs have black bars top and bottom. Some use the whole 720x480 for picture, so the picture is 16:9, they'd be encoded using anamorphic encoding at 720x480, or resized to square pixels by Vidcoder first for 852x480 and then encoded, or resized by AutoGK to 720x400 etc. Whichever way, the picture is 16:9 (or very close).

AutoGK confirms this. It crops the black bars and then resizes your video to square pixels (that's how it resizes), so the resolution and aspect ratio are the same. It resized to 720x304 and 720/304 = 2.37:1.

If AGK does this automatically, why doesn't HB?

It can. You need to select the "anamorphic none" option and it'll resize to square pixels. Last I checked, HandBrake resizes "down" so the output resolution will be similar to AutoGK. By default, VidCoder resizes "up" which might retain some extra picture detail. If you use one of the anamorphic options (ie anamorphic loose as per your pic) it won't resize to square pixels. it'll just encode and set the aspect ratio and the picture needs to be stretched correctly by the player on playback.

But what doesn't add up to my is why can my newer TVs can play the MP4 file created by HB in the correct aspect ratio but my older TV (which only has the choice of receiving the video stream via DLNA) displays an incorrect aspect ratio. How do the newer TVs know to display it correctly?

I don't know, and that's partly why I wondered if you've got it the wrong way around, but the thing is........
If you resize to square pixels the encoded video should always display correctly. Unless the TV itself is set to stretch the picture to fill the screen which is bad because it errr...... stretches the picture. So if you've got a wider aspect ratio AutoGK encode (ie 720x304) and it's not displaying with black bars top and bottom, you should fix that.

For anamorphic encoding, it relies on the player reading the aspect ratio and stretching the picture correctly and Samsung TVs are notorious for not doing that when playing video via their built-in USB media players, so in order for video to display correctly it needs to be resized to square pixels before it's encoded. Whether they're more clever playing anamorphic video over a network I don't know, unless you're using a network player which resizes anamorphic video correctly and the TV isn't doing anything but displaying the picture.

The million dollar question is, if you stick the DVD in a DVD/Bluray player and compare the picture to the encoded version, is it the same? It should be. Play the AutoGK 720x304 encoded version using one of the TV's built in USB media players and see how it looks. It should look like the pic I posted earlier. If the DVD has black bars top and bottom the encoded version should too on playback. If it doesn't and the picture is being stretched to fill the screen then it's not displaying correctly. That's about all the information I can give you. You might need to read it a few times as DVD aspect ratios (anamorphic video) can be a little confusing at first, but eventually the penny drops. I'm still not 100% sure when the video is displaying correctly for you and when it isn't, but hopefully all the above will help you to work it out and if need be hopefully I (or someone) can help further if you need it.