Problems with interlaced/progressive on Simpsons DVDs

[zlep]

Hi guys,

I try to make a high quality rip of my Simpsons PAL DVDs. When I started with Season 1 I had no problems because DGIndex stated that the DVDs are interlaced and also MeGUI (automatic detection). So I used the recommended setting (partially interlaced, top field, YADIF) and the output looked pretty good. (I also used CRF 20,5 and the "animation" settings by the way).

So now I tried the same thing with season 2 but MeGUI says it is progressive. I encoded one episode with the above mentioned interlaced settings (because DGIndex still says it is interlaced) but I'm not sure if these are the correct settings for season 2. To be honest I think the picture seems to be a little bit "smudge".

Does anybody know if season 2 (and I guess all following seasons) are progressive or what am I doing wrong?
Are my settings correct?

Thank you very much.

[jagabo]

Posting a sample is your best bet. Use Mpg2Cut2 or DgIndex to extract a short clip with motion.

[zlep]

Hi, thank you very much.
Here are 2 samples. The first one is from season 2, which seems to be progressive. The second one is from season 1, which should be interlaced (because there are "interlace lines" and MeGUI recognizes it as interlaced).

season 2: http://www.share-online.biz/dl/W0CZ1TOMGPA
season 1: http://www.share-online.biz/dl/IL0V1TOM9HB

Thanks again

Edit: Season 2 attached:
https://forum.videohelp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18449&stc=1&d=1371923101

[jagabo]

The second season video was encoded interlaced but contains progressive frames. You can treat it as progressive. Be sure to check the body of the video -- title sequences sometimes differ from the body of the video.

[zlep]

Thank you very much for your help. So I don't need any filters like Yadif to get the best quality?! May I ask you which settings you recommend? I used the Animation-settings and CRF 20.5 but I'm not sure if this is really the best quality. I'm new to Video encoding so every help would be really appreciated. Tanks again.

[sanlyn]

The Season 1 clip appears to be progressive with pulldown applied (telecine), but field-blend artifacts are present in the sample. Telecined video should have telecine or pulldown removed, not deinterlaced.

[jagabo]

Thank you very much for your help. So I don't need any filters like Yadif to get the best quality?!

You don't need any deinterlacing.

I used the Animation-settings and CRF 20.5 but I'm not sure if this is really the best quality.

That should be fine. If you want higher quality (relative to the source) use a lower CRF value. But file sizes will go up. And with this type of material you'll just be encoding the noise better. You could do some noise reduction and chroma sharpening.

I wasn't able to download the season 1 sample for some reason.

[manono]

So I used the recommended setting (partially interlaced, top field, YADIF) and the output looked pretty good.

As sanlyn said, the season one is field-blended and shouldn't have been deinterlaced. You should have used an unblender:

Yadif(Mode=1)#or a better bobber, one such as QTGMC
Srestore()

jagabo, I had trouble getting the season one sample, too. I've uploaded it here:

[sanlyn]

I got it after navigating back and forth around the download page, then it took 9 minutes. Odd download site.

[zlep]

Hi guys, first of all sorry for the trouble you had with the file hoster and thank you for your help.

That should be fine. If you want higher quality (relative to the source) use a lower CRF value. But file sizes will go up. And with this type of material you'll just be encoding the noise better. You could do some noise reduction and chroma sharpening.

Thank you. I'll experiment with the CRF value and see what suits best for me. I use the MeGUI Script Creator and added the QTGMC filter (thanks to manono, this was very helpful), so this is my current script:

ColorMatrix(hints=true, threads=0)
QTGMC( Preset="Slow" )
SelectEven()
crop(10, 4, -6, -4)
#resize
mergechroma(blur(1.3)) # Little Noise

But how can I do the noise reduction and chroma sharping?

And one more question: Should I use the QTGMC also for season 2?
Edit: I saw that there are also a few "telecine lines" in season 2, so I guess I need the QTGMC filter also in season 2.

Thank you so much for all your help.

[manono]

so this is my current script:

Although not a whole lot of field-blending is present, because of the primitive nature of the way The Simpson's is drawn, deinterlacing with QTGMC isn't enough. It should be unblended, as in the script I posted last time.

And one more question: Should I use the QTGMC also for season 2?

Since jagabo said it has progressive content, the answer is 'no'.

Just because it's been encoded as interlaced doesn't mean the video itself is interlaced and doesn't mean it should be deinterlaced. If you don't see any interlacing, don't deinterlace. No matter how good the deinterlacer, leaving progressive material alone is still way better.

[zlep]

Thx, my problem is I don't know where to add your lines you posted. May I ask you to edit my script?

I also just saw that there are such "interlaced lines" in season 2. When I use QTGMC they are gone, so I guess I need this filter in season 2 too?!

[zlep]

Ok, I used a lot of Google search and I think I've got it (more or less). This is my new script:

LoadPlugin("C:\Users\Admin\Downloads\MeGUI_2356_x86\tools\dgindex\DGDecode.dll")
DGDecode_mpeg2source("C:\Users\Admin\Downloads\simpsons\7g01\VTS_01_1.d2v", info=3)
LoadPlugin("C:\Users\Admin\Downloads\MeGUI_2356_x86\tools\avisynth_plugin\ColorMatrix.dll")
ColorMatrix(hints=true, threads=0)
Load_Stdcall_Plugin("C:\Users\Admin\Downloads\MeGUI_2356_x86\tools\yadif\yadif.dll")
Yadif(Mode=1)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Average.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\SRestore.avs")
Srestore()
QTGMC( Preset="Slow" )
SelectEven()
crop(10, 4, -6, -4)
#resize
LoadPlugin("C:\Users\Admin\Downloads\MeGUI_2356_x86\tools\avisynth_plugin\Convolution3DYV12.dll")
Convolution3D("movielq") # Heavy Noise

Anything wrong?
Thanks

[jagabo]

I did this:

Mpeg2Source("season2.demuxed.d2v", CPU=6, Info=3) 
Santiag().Santiag().Santiag()
MergeChroma(awarpsharp2(depth=20))
McTemporalDenoise(settings="very high")

The very high setting in MCTD does cause some details to be lost, especially in panning shots.

[zlep]

Hi jagabo, this looks absolutely amazing.
Unfortunatelly I have some new problems with your script.

1.) I collected all the filters which are needed for McTemporalDenoise (from here: http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/MCTemporalDenoise)
But now it says "can't load fftw3.dll. I already put it into the system32 folder.

2.) MeGUI says "there is no function named awarshap2" and "there is no function named Santiag"
In both cases I can't find any files for this. What do I need to get this working?

Sorry for all my questions. It would be so nice if you could help me. Thanks again.

[jagabo]

If you're running 64 bit Windows and using 32 bit AviSynth, put fftw3.dll in the SysWow64 folder, not System32.

Get awarpsharp2.dll and put it in AviSynth's plugins folder.

[zlep]

Unfortunately I'm running Windows 32 bit. Hmmm... ?
Do you have a download link for awarpsharp2.dll? I can't find it with Google. Thx

[jagabo]

awarpsharp2: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=147285

I don't know what the problem with fftw3.dll is. Since you're running 32 bit Windows it would normally go in C:\Windows\System32\fftw3.dll. Do you have fft3dfilter.dll in AviSynth's plugins folder?

[sanlyn]

awarpsharp2 link and discussion page: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=147285
(Oops, sorry. jagabo got here first)

Make certain your Windows is 32 or 64-bit. fftw3.dll is supposed to be:
- in System32 if you have 32-bit Windows.
- In SYSWOW64 if you have 64-bit Windows.
- it is should not be located in your Avisynth plugin folder.
- it cannot be called by a LoadPlugin statement in your avs script. FFTW3.DLL is not an Avisynth plugin. It's a Windows system library file. An avs script can't load it.

[manono]

Anything wrong?

Yes, you deinterlaced after unblending.

Yadif(Mode=1)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Average.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\SRestore.avs")
SRestore()
QTGMC( Preset="Slow" )
SelectEven()

You shouldn't add the very slow QTGMC after unblending. It's not needed. Either remove the QTGMC and SelectEven from the script entirely, or replace Yadif(Mode=1) with it (without the SelectEven). And all that LoadPlugin and Import stuff is usually put before you actually use any of the filters.

[zlep]

Thank you everybody. I don't know why but now it works. I installed all filters which are necessary for jagabo's script. It looks pretty good. But I guess I've to get a new PC because it takes about 6 hrs for one episode.

[jagabo]

If you have a multicore processor you can speed it up by using a multithreaded build of AviSynth and SetMtMode():

SetMtMode(5,6) # Mpeg2Source needs mode 5, adjust number of threads to ~1.5x the number of cores
Mpeg2Source("season2.demuxed.d2v", CPU=6, Info=3)
SetMtMode(2) # the rest of the filters will run at mode 2
Santiag().Santiag().Santiag()
MergeChroma(awarpsharp2(depth=20))
McTemporalDenoise(settings="very high")

I recommend you try variations of the script and examine more of your source. As I noted before, "very high" in MCTD can lead to some details being lost. For example, look at the spots in the dark green brush in frames 45 to 55 of your sample. Some of them disappear in some frames. MCTD has tons of individual settings you can adjust too.

Also try some of the other Convolution3D presets instead of MCTD. Especially the anime and vhs presets. They're much faster.

[sanlyn]

OMG, that season 1 transfer is a nightmare. Taking manono's suggestions, I used QTGMC as a bobber and sRestore to get back to the original 23.976 FPS progressive. But cleaning that result was another chore in itself and took several more plugins plus VirtualDub. And it still needs tweaking. There are so many good Simpsons issues on DVD, it's hardly worth the bother and time to clean up a poor copy.

[zlep]

Thank you. Yes this is getting really complicated especially for a newbie like me. I also don't get this multithread avisynth running, so I guess I have to give it a new try in a few months. Anyway thank you for all your help I'll come back to you with new questions

On the other hand I still hope that all Simpsons seasons will be published on itunes so I don't need to put too much effort in this project.

[jagabo]

I also don't get this multithread avisynth running

That's easy. Download the archive from here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=148782

Extract avisynth.dll from that archive and replace the one that's installed in C:\Windows\System32\ (32 bit windows), or C:\Windows\SysWow64 (32 bit Avisynth in 64 bit Windows). You'll need administrator privilege to do that. Then add SetMtMode() to your scripts as indicated earlier.

[zlep]

Hi jagabo, I already did this but unfortunately this is the error I get:

I used this MCTemporalDenoise script: http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/MCTemporalDenoise

[jagabo]

I don't know why, but the latest AviSynth build seems to require an explicit call to SetMtMode() when using some filters -- like QTGMC(). Just add a SetMtMode() to the start of your script. Or supply the arguments for the mode and number of threads (as in the sample I posted earlier). The number of threads should be set to at least the number of cores your CPU has. I usually set it to 1.5x the number of cores (I have a quad core CPU so I set it to 6) for maximum performance.

[zlep]

Hello everybody, I got a 4 core CPU and 64bit Windows so I decided to give this another try. As suggested by jagabo this is the script I try to use:

SetMtMode(5,6)
Mpeg2Source("test.d2v", CPU=6, Info=3)
SetMtMode(2)
Santiag().Santiag().Santiag()
MergeChroma(awarpsharp2(depth=20))
McTemporalDenoise(settings="high")

Unfortunately I get this Virtual C++ error:

"this application has requested the runtime to terminate it in an unusual way"

When I leave the "SetMtMode(2)" out it works but I guess that's not the correct way to use it, isn't it?
It would be so nice if anybody could help me. Thank you in advance.

Edit: By the way: I use MeGUI. Is there a better tool or way to encode?

[jagabo]

What you're doing is basically correct. Unfortunately, multithreaded AviSynth and/or many filters still aren't thread safe. In my experience QTGMC() and McTemporalDenoise() together often leads to problems. All you can do is try playing around with different modes and thread counts.

I use the x264 CLI encoder directly. It accepts AviSynth scripts. I have a few batch files for settings I commonly used. I just drag the AVS script onto the batch file, or right click on the AVS script and select Send To -> (x264 batch file).

[zlep]

Thank you. I got it working with SetMtMode(3), don't know why but it works.

It needs about 2,5hrs for one episode but the outcome is worth it. With your filters it looks better then on DVD, so it's kind of upscaled. Pretty impressive.
I started with season 10, so I hope these settings will also work for the previous seasons. Especially season 1 could be tricky I guess. I've learned a lot about video conversion but I'm still a beginner.