replay Weirdness

[OldNick]

On two PCs at home, both connected to the Internet, but not networked and heavily AV, FW, Defence protected, I have recently found that I cannot get good results from .vob files.

- VLC Player works OK, but has some flicker issues (which may have already been there)
- Windows Media Player plays beautifully smoothly, but will not play sound.
- Windows Media Centre will not play .vob files at all. It shows a white screen wither progress bar showing "progress" but absolutely no video or audio.

At first I thought it was an issue with vob files that I had produced, but now I find it's the same with vob files from commercial DVDs.

However VLC does play an actual DVD smoothly. WMC will not play them. WMPlayer plays, with no sound.

In the last few days I have installed various video and DVD producing software. There seems to be a coincidence.

If I uninstall those programme, will they remove their codec, which may be getting in the way of playing stuff? I am willing to try uninstalling, but not if it's a waste of time.

Thanks for any help or other ideas about this problem.

Nick

[Hoser Rob]

I don't think it's a coincidence that you installed other media software and you're having problems now. I suspect it's codecs. I won't use anything anymore that needs 3rd party codec packs.

You didn't specify what you installed. uninstalling the program itself may do it, maybe not. For example, I yanked avstodvd and also had to uninstall other things it installed separately, like haali media splitter. Same with mpc-hc.

What happens when you install programs that use that codec crap in windows is that the registry is changed so that everything is now using those codecs / filters instead of directx. Then other programs that use their own internal codecs, through directx or directshow or the .net framework, don't work as well. I've never had any problems as serious as yours but I found that both vlc and smplayer work much, much better. In fact I couldn't really get the smplayer settings right without yanking those damn codecs.

If you're using windows 7, be advised that it specifically says on the microsoft tech support site not to install any non microsoft codec packs. I wouldn't want them on an earlier windows either. They are simply unnecessary hacker crap.

Most every media program I use now is a Linux port. That's a pretty good way to avoid those problems. Unix/linux is very robust when it comes to program dependencies. You'd never be able to get away with the stuff you can with the windows registry.

One more thing ... vlc has problems playing dvd/vob files. 2.0 seems better than the last version but it's still not right. I think you need to go back to 1.1.05 or something like that to get proper dvd playback, but then the streaming isn't secure anymore.

For dvd/vob I prefer powerdvd (which came with both my laptops) or smplayer.

[OldNick]

Thanks for the reply.

Sounds a bit grim and could be messy. I have tried uninstalling a heap of stuff that I had installed so I guess it left stuff hanging around. Getting rid of this sort of stuff is not going to be easy. I do use an uninstaller that tries to trip all files and registry entries as it goes.

Surely if you are not to use anything but Win native codecs, that would exclude Vegas, Adobe Prem, etc? I got the impression they used their own stuff.

Apparently VLC is having trouble and the next version will be addressing the problem.

I will try powerDVD and smplayer
\
Nick

[OldNick]

OK. I wandered about and found a little programme called "InstalledCodecs". It let me disable codecs. I disabled everything bar none. It looks as if it worked, because after I had played a video (wondering "what the....") Microsoft had re-enabled some that I had disabled. So it recognised that none were working and fixed it.

However, the ghosted playback was still there.

So have I done enough to say it's not a codec issue?

Nick

[Hoser Rob]

I'd try Codec Tweak Tool, and point the stuff that was redirected away from directx or directshow back to it.

[OldNick]

HokeyDoke! Will give that a try.

Nick

[OldNick]

hang on wait...what?

Sorry, I am not sure what you meant. I tried "Fixes" and "re-register base DirectShow Filters" which was the closest to what I thought you said. It made no difference.

Nick

[jagabo]

You probably need a DirectShow AC3 decoder.

[SpectateSwamp]

Try My MultiMedia player.
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/stonedan/search.exe

It will play videos that other media players won't.

put it on a usb stick and start up and exit out. then on the second attempt. at prompt #2 enter "gf" for get files this will catalog your vob files or mpg. The result temp.txt or what ever you name it is then entered at prompt #1 with "ww" at prompt #2 and "photo" at prompt #3 and it will run and show your videos.

I have over 1700 videos on youtube. Some videos just won't play. If this player won't do it, then you have a bad video.

Or you could post it temporary on archive.org and I'll give it a spin for you...

[OldNick]

Thanks for the reply.\

Well first of all the programme will not run. MSVBVM50.dll is missing.\

The other thing is that it's not just one video. The problems are occurring on every video I have.

Nick

[OldNick]

You probably need a DirectShow AC3 decoder.

Why do you say that? Why would I not have one already? Is there a particular one I should be lo0oking for?

Nick

[jagabo]

You probably need a DirectShow AC3 decoder.

Why do you say that?

Because some versions of Windows don't come with one and WMP isn't playing the audio. And you're playing VOB files which usually have AC3 audio. VLC has it's own internal AC3 decoder -- that's why it plays the audio.

Is there a particular one I should be lo0oking for?

You can try AC3 filter. Or install ffdshow (a single library with decoders for most common audio and video codecs). Or use another player with built in decoders. MPCHC, KMPlayer, PotPlayer.

[OldNick]

I checked and I do have an ac3 codec. IN fact I have several, including the ffdshow one

Microsoft AC3 Encoder DirectShow Filter No 14/07/2009 12:41:24 PM Microsoft AC-3 Encoder 6.1.7601.17514 (win7sp1_rtm.101119-1850) Microsoft Corporation Microsoft® Windows® Operating System 226,304 C:\Windows\System32\msac3enc.dll {C6B400E2-20A7-4E58-A2FE-24619682CE6C} 0x00200000 msac3enc.dll 18/03/2012 11:26:29 AM 20/11/2010 8:19:44 PM

wmplayer now plays _with_ sound. I have no idea what changed.

Windows Media Centre still only shows the timeline and play controlled, with the time changing, but no vob videos showing on screen.

[OldNick]

Sorry. I already haver MPCHC. It works. As I said WMPlayer does now as well.

Trouble is, all this started when I was in the middle of trying to solve a problem with all video files. I have an issue where there is "ghosting". I was posting about this HERE.

It was being discussed, but has been quiet for a bit.

Nick

[jagabo]

The ghosting you see in the earlier parts of that thread is from Vegas' frame rate interpolation -- 50 frames per second source to 59.94 fields per second NTSC output. There's a setting you can change to eliminate that.

If you are seeing ghosting when playing the clip in post #30

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/344277-Vegas-Studio-Plat-DVD-files-to-HD?p=2147093&...=1#post2147093

your player is not deinterlacing well while playing the video. The installed DirectShow MPEG file reader, MPEG splitter, and MPEG decoder must all be set to pass interlace information to the Video Renderer if you want the renderer to automatically deinterlace interlaced sources. Or you can manually force the renderer to deinterlace.

[SpectateSwamp]

Thanks for the reply.\

Well first of all the programme will not run. MSVBVM50.dll is missing.\

The other thing is that it's not just one video. The problems are occurring on every video I have.

Nick

quite a few windows systems have this dll but some don't

http://www.dlldump.com/download-dll-files.php/dllfiles/M/msvbvm50.dll/download.html

sure sounds like a problem on your computer and not the video. I have shot close to 10,000 videos and have only come across 2 or 3 that were just no good.

[OldNick]

The ghosting you see in the earlier parts of that thread is from Vegas' frame rate interpolation -- 50 frames per second source to 59.94 fields per second NTSC output. There's a setting you can change to eliminate that.

If you are seeing ghosting when playing the clip in post #30

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/344277-Vegas-Studio-Plat-DVD-files-to-HD?p=2147093&...=1#post2147093

your player is not deinterlacing well while playing the video. The installed DirectShow MPEG file reader, MPEG splitter, and MPEG decoder must all be set to pass interlace information to the Video Renderer if you want the renderer to automatically deinterlace interlaced sources. Or you can manually force the renderer to deinterlace.

OK. First one. Unfortunate choice of video to post with a 29.97 FR. I was floundering at the time. Trouble is I get the same ghosting at PAL frame rates.

Second one. I did not change any settings. Something else did. How do I get the codecs to deinterlace, or pass the right info to Vegas?

Nick

[OldNick]

Look I am really puzzled. I take a 1080p source, then say use Progressive Scan to render, and yet I see stuff that I am now being told is caused by not deinterlacing when I play....errrk.

[poisondeathray]

Look I am really puzzled. I take a 1080p source, then say use Progressive Scan to render, and yet I see stuff that I am now being told is caused by not deinterlacing when I play....errrk.

Please be more specific .

Are you talking about a progressive export (1080p50 same as your source) ? or interlaced DVD export? Post mediainfo reports and/or post video samples. Screenshots of your settings. All your posts are too vague. It's like trying to pull teeth.

Go back to your very 1st thread, it's explained there in more detail, the limitations of DVD

DVD-video doesn't support 720x576p50 , so you have to make it interlaced 720x576i50 .

On a progressive display (eg. flat panel) , it needs to be bob deinterlaced , but that causes bob flicker, unless you use slow, high quality methods of deinterlacing - these cannot be done in real time

[jagabo]

Here are two MPG videos, one encoded 25p the other 25i (50i if you wish). What do you see?

You should see bars like this, moving right to left. You should see no ghosting*. The 25i clip should have smoother motion.



* The 25p clip may appear a little ghosted because of persistence of vision and the large-ish motion between frames. But if you pause the video you should see no ghosting.

[OldNick]

when I play the interlaced one and pause it. the bars are ghosted, not the progressive one.

[OldNick]

Look I am really puzzled. I take a 1080p source, then say use Progressive Scan to render, and yet I see stuff that I am now being told is caused by not deinterlacing when I play....errrk.

Please be more specific .

Are you talking about a progressive export (1080p50 same as your source) ? or interlaced DVD export? Post mediainfo reports and/or post video samples. Screenshots of your settings. All your posts are too vague. It's like trying to pull teeth.

Go back to your very 1st thread, it's explained there in more detail, the limitations of DVD

DVD-video doesn't support 720x576p50 , so you have to make it interlaced 720x576i50 .

On a progressive display (eg. flat panel) , it needs to be bob deinterlaced , but that causes bob flicker, unless you use slow, high quality methods of deinterlacing - these cannot be done in real time

Give me a break! Please. If I had any idea what to ask "properly" I would probably not need to ask.

I have posted mediainfo stuff for various videos. ALL my videos are the same. You have been taking part in my other post about the same problem,k. I felt I was getting nowhere, even when I did try to get it right. I just kept being asked to do more and more, and there was never any follow-up when I tried and it did not work.

This is not about DVDs. _This_ thread started out about DVDs, but the ghosting and flicker problem are in all my videos. You have seen it, in my other thread that seemed to be getting nowhere.

[OldNick]

So the ones that were posted, with the bars, does not ghost if I play the progressive rendered version. But if I play a progressive verwsion rendered on my machine, by either Vegas or Adobe Elements, if I pause there is ghosting.

[jagabo]

I don't use those programs but -- video editors are not media players. It doesn't matter what you see when you use them. What matters is what you see when you use a media player. Or what you see after burning a DVD and watching it on TV.

[OldNick]

OK. Probably my fault (again). I have seen that what the editing software shows can be very little like the actual output.

I am playing your files in a player (Media Player Classic Home Cinema..BUT the problem is the same with all the players I have tried). I have made my own files in Vegas, then I play them in MPCHC. Your files showed ghosting in the Interlaced one, when I freeze-framed. The Progressive one did not. However anything edited /rendered on my machine, interlaced or progressive, has ghosting if you freeze-frame.

Also I did an flv render in Adobe Elements, and that had no ghosting. BUT, it plays at what looks like half speed. Audio is OK. Video is too slow, but very smooth.

I give up. I thought I had this right then this latest stuff started happening. There are so many things going wrong I just can't keep up. I am still trying to learn what to do when it all goes _right_, but this is just round and round nonsense. Something app[ears to be fundamentally stuffed on this machine. Whatever codecs I try, I get either ghosting or slow playback. I have disabled codecs, enabled codecs, reinstalled codecs, used on only MSoft codecs, NOT used MSoft codecs. I have uninstalled and resinstalled programmes, both players and editors.

I am sorry if I am a but vague, but I feel like I am just chasing my tail, waiting to fix something and see the next problem.

[poisondeathray]

Look I am really puzzled. I take a 1080p source, then say use Progressive Scan to render, and yet I see stuff that I am now being told is caused by not deinterlacing when I play....errrk.

Please be more specific .

Are you talking about a progressive export (1080p50 same as your source) ? or interlaced DVD export? Post mediainfo reports and/or post video samples. Screenshots of your settings. All your posts are too vague. It's like trying to pull teeth.

Go back to your very 1st thread, it's explained there in more detail, the limitations of DVD

DVD-video doesn't support 720x576p50 , so you have to make it interlaced 720x576i50 .

On a progressive display (eg. flat panel) , it needs to be bob deinterlaced , but that causes bob flicker, unless you use slow, high quality methods of deinterlacing - these cannot be done in real time

Give me a break! Please. If I had any idea what to ask "properly" I would probably not need to ask.

I have posted mediainfo stuff for various videos. ALL my videos are the same. You have been taking part in my other post about the same problem,k. I felt I was getting nowhere, even when I did try to get it right. I just kept being asked to do more and more, and there was never any follow-up when I tried and it did not work.

This is not about DVDs. _This_ thread started out about DVDs, but the ghosting and flicker problem are in all my videos. You have seen it, in my other thread that seemed to be getting nowhere.

Ok take a deep breath

So what are you testing now?? Again , be specific. You're jumping all over the place, and you are chasing your tail

If we revisit the DVD thread for a second:
1) The problem was solved with your last export (the video itself was fine), confirmed by several people. I mean the actual video export, not necessarily playback. The first few samples had problems as discussed in that previous thread

2) The problem you have is you aren't being very consistent with your methods , and seem to be jumping all over the place. You need to do this 1 step at a time instead of installing various codecs that invalidate everything you've tested so far

3) VLC doesn't rely on system installed codecs. Did you follow the instructions on how to setup bob deinterlacing there?

Part of the problem might be you need longer samples, because as soon as you click , the clip is already over and it's already reverted back.

MPCHC, MPC are directshow players - they rely on system installed codecs and splitters. So you may get inconsistent results depending on how that particular PC is configured.

VLC, SMplayer are independent of system configurations, so those are good to use tests on. However, they do not bob deinterlace by default, they have to be "turned on"

You don't need to deinterlace progressive files, such as your original source, or if you render out a 50p file

4) I think we are labelling things differently. Earlier what you called "flicker" was actually 25p judder or studder motion

[poisondeathray]

I notice your screenshot in post #21 was taken with kmplayer. Using default settings, it will single rate deinterlace mpeg2 - so it will look choppy (you might call it "flicker"), it also looks to be blend deinterlacing

Open jagabo's interlaced 50i clip and use smplayer and activate the yadif 2x deinterlacer and it will be much more smoother. (right click, video=> deinterlace=> yadif double framerate). Set it on "repeat" so jagabo's 10sec clip loops. Now change it to yadif (normal) and see the difference . In the first case, it is bob deinterlacing, so you get 50p as a result, in the second it single rate deinteraces to 25p (throws away half the fields).

On a normal DVD setup, it will bob deinterlace automatically (you will get similar to the smooth double rate results)

[poisondeathray]

At first I thought it was an issue with vob files that I had produced, but now I find it's the same with vob files from commercial DVDs.

Earlier you said you had problem with commercial dvd's - well if they are theatrical releases (e.g. Hollywood movies) , the they are supposed to be jerky. They are shot at film rate (23.976) , so motion is a lot worse than home movies (50i in PAL land DVD, or your source camcorder 1080p50) . Filmmakers use techniques like stabilization, show pans, defocusing, shot framing to hide these issues. Even PAL converted DVD movies will be 25p at the most, so again a lot more jerky than 50i or 50p

[jagabo]

Some things you can try in MPCHC:

1) View -> Options -> Playback -> Output, in the DirectShow Video box select EVR Custom Preset. Exit MPCHC and play inter.mpg. Any difference?

2) View -> Options -> Internal Filters, In the Source Filters box make sure MPEG PS/TS/PVA is selected (MPEG file reader and splitter). In the Transform Filters box enable the MPEG 2 Video option, disable the MPEG-2 Video (DXVA) option. Exit MPCHC and play inter.mpg. Any better?

3) View -> Options -> Internal Filters, double click on MPEG 2 Video to bring up its configuration dialog. Make sure "Set interlaced flag in output media type" is enabled. See if you can change the Dinterlacing pulldown. On the system I'm currently useing that pulldown is disabled so I can't see what the options are, but select a Bob setting if you have one. Do not select Blend. If there's no Bob look for a discard, interpolate. Exit MPCHC and play inter.mpg.

4) While inter.mpg is playing right click on the window and select Filters -> Enhanced Video Renderer (custom presenter). What does it show for the average frame rate? It should show 50, not 25.

You don't have to keep these settings permanently. These are just tests that use known configurations. Steps 1 makes sure you are using the advanced EVR renderer Windows provides. Step 1 assures you are using MPCHC's internal MPEG 2 reader/splitter and decoder (rather than installed DirectShow filters which may not be working correctly). Step 3 makes sure the MPEG 2 decoder is passing interlace information along to the video renderer. Step 4 verifies the video renderer (graphics card) is bob deinterlacing.