Reading this site, I feel like I should hire someone to convert VHS

[raggedrobin]

So, I've been reading a bunch of threads on ripping VHS to Digital. Now, like so many others, I realize this is a bigger project than perhaps I'm willing to undertake. I'd hate to DIY my VHS tapes only to produce a bad quality result.

It's making me wonder: perhaps since my store of VHS tapes is so small (15-30 tapes), what can I expect to pay and have someone else do this work for me? And can you wonderful people help me with a recommendation on an affordable, reliable service?

Alternatively, I'd love to know a good price you think I should be paying per tape. I guess there are maybe 10 tapes on which I'd love a little general restoration effort (I'm sure I can' t afford anything super aggressive), but 20 tapes on which none would be necessary.

I would go with somebody local, but I'm betting they don't know what you guys know--or at least, I'd have trouble discerning who knows what they're doing and who doesn't!

I live in the Bay Area, if that helps.

Thank you in advance! And if it's inappropriate forum etiquette to advertise, please PM me!

[raggedrobin]

Also, is the non-hobbyist's best approach still considered to be the purchase of something like the Pioneer 220 DVD Recorder?

I am fairly comfortable with computers, but I'm wondering what is considered the current simple solution at a decent cost.

I have a bunch of decent quality commercial VHS tapes I'd love to turn into digital, and maybe like five or ten lower quality bootlegs which could use some tender care.

Perhaps the best solution is buy a DVD recorder for the decent quality ones, and get a professional to help with the lower quality ones?

What are your thoughts, fair folk of the forum?!

[sanlyn]

A good starting place to read up on VHS->DVD transfer and get a taste for the these projects is digitalfaq, where many members of this forum first got hooked. The home page lists services and other matter. If you want to get more nitty-gritty, try doom 9.

The Pioneer 220 wasn't the only good DVD recorder around. The Panasonic ES and Toshiba RD-XS lines were pretty nice (and in some ways better). But the ES units are long in the tooth now and premium Toshibas with their Zykor encoders in good shape are selling for nearly twice their original price (MSRP $500 and up). Haven't mentioned the cost of a good VCR, which doesn't include anything new on the market today. The digitalfaq site has some informative info in that area.

Ultimately it's up to you. I started with some 400 hours of old VHS by capturing to PC, cleaning them up, and making them into DVD. I'm finally down to the last 200 hours -- but I started in 2003. But, then, I'm kinda picky: why put time into making VHS into DVD if the result looks just like the tape , or worse.

[raggedrobin]

Thank you very much! OK, I read that guide, and actually, having looked at prices, it seems like it would be significantly cheaper and perhaps even more fun to go ahead and build a setup here at my house. I'm not daunted by technical things, although I'm by no means a programmer/hacker level guy, but still I feel alright installing a video card and whatnot.

So... is there a guide on what SPECIFIC parts to buy, right now? Like the latest good, not-quite-top-of-the-line setup? For example, I looked around for an ATI AIW card, because that seemed to be the place to start, and I wasn't sure if it was okay to buy a slightly older one, or what. Particularly wondering if there will be compatibility issues since I'm running Windows XP SP3.

Is what I should buy, and stop sweating the details? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=ATI+All-in-Wonder&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=sho...ed=0CGIQ8wIwAA

Is this an okay place to ask questions about specific purchases along the way? Sure would love some help!

For example, I saw this on Craigslist - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pho/2804832940.html

Is this decent, or for this price is there something brand new I can get that's comparable? I guess my main question is, should I be wary of how old this thing is?

[raggedrobin]

Oh! Also, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how I can tell if my video card works as a capture card or not. Where/how the heck do I find that out?

Here's what I'm twerkin' with:

Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8800GT (512 MB)
Windows XP SP3 - Home Edition Version 2002
Intel (R) Core (TM)2 Duo CPU
E8400 @ 3.00 GHz
3.00 GHz, 3.50 GB of RAM

The website detailing my video card said this stuff below, which... I assume unless it raves somewhere that my card can do video input, then it can't? Or since it's a modern card, should I assume it CAN? That's what one site said... so confusing!

Display Support:
Maximum Digital Resolution2560x1600
Maximum VGA Resolution2048x1536
Standard Display Connectors - Dual Link, DVI
HDTV Multi Monitor
HDCP
HDMI: Via adapter
Audio Input for HDMI: SPDIF

[MOVIEGEEK]

If these tapes are copyrighted store bought movies then they have Macrovision and a professional won't transfer them, there are ways to do it on your PC but it isn't easy. It would be cheaper and easier(not to mention better quality) to find the DVD online or in the bargain bin at a local store.

If they are home movies then a DVD recorder or video capture device would make sense:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=1428


BTW: your videocard is NOT a capturecard and welcome to VH.com.

[smartel]

if your gonna do it yourself start here :

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/286055-VCR-buying-guide-(S-VHS-D-VHS-Professional)

[sanlyn]

Here's what I'm twerkin' with:

Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8800GT (512 MB)
Windows XP SP3 - Home Edition Version 2002
Intel (R) Core (TM)2 Duo CPU
E8400 @ 3.00 GHz
3.00 GHz, 3.50 GB of RAM

The website detailing my video card said this stuff below, which... I assume unless it raves somewhere that my card can do video input, then it can't? Or since it's a modern card, should I assume it CAN? That's what one site said... so confusing!

Display Support:
Maximum Digital Resolution2560x1600
Maximum VGA Resolution2048x1536
Standard Display Connectors - Dual Link, DVI
HDTV Multi Monitor
HDCP
HDMI: Via adapter
Audio Input for HDMI: SPDIF

No, it's not a capture card. But by all means stay with Win XP. One glance at complaints about Vista/Win7 and video gear will quickly convince you that what you have is the way to go. It's certainly better than the cheapo Biostar mobo and puny 2.4 GHz Athlon I've been using. Most of the capture devices you'll find don't care about HDMI, but your monitor should be calibrated to sRGB standards (which is quite useable with the kind of Rec601 and Rec709 colorspaces you'll be aiming for). There are various ways to calibrate a monitor, but here's how most people do it: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eye_one_display2.htm . The prices of the type of gear discussed are going down at this point.

You'll need plenty of hard drive space, even if you don't work in AVI. Video takes a lot of room. It's most helpful to keep the bulk of your work on an external storage drive, but get one that has good cooling, such as this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817173043 . Newegg, tigerdirect, and amazon have many drives on sale.

The good news: almost all of the video processing apps and filters you see discussed in this forum are free.

[GoPhoto]

Hey there,

It may or may not be more cost efficient to DIY; part of this is of course determined by what your time is worth.

We at GoPhoto charge $19.95 per tape to convert video to DVD - this is in-line with what you'll find elsewhere. With 20 tapes, that definitely adds up, so: figure out (A) what your project will cost to outsource, then figure out (B) what the cost of the equipment that you need to use is. Subtract B from A to get (C), estimate the number of hours it'll take you to do the project yourself, and you get a realistic idea of what you'll be "paying" yourself to do it. Video can be more time-efficient; getting into a DIY photos to digital project is really where the time starts to seriously add up.

We're in the Bay Area too, and digitize photos, slides, negatives and VHS in Northern California.

(i.e. yes, we too are a little sad this morning after that fumble... )

Good luck!

[sanlyn]

For problem tapes, you might look for ATI HD 600, 650, 700, etc., there are many of them around.

As the previous post states, there are shops that do it for you. "Problem" tapes that require major cleanup will take more time and effort.

[raggedrobin]

Holy schnizz, that is a cheap hard drive! I actually bought a really big internal hard drive not that long ago, only to find that Windows XP can't even talk to a hard drive of that size. So pathetic!

Anyway! OK, it sounds like universally my first step is to find a good VCR.

Then I will ask you wonderful people some other questions!

Btw, the commercial tapes I have that I want to digitize are, surprisingly, things which have never been released digital. I know, almost everything has at this point...

The main thing I am interested in transferring intact are some non-great-quality live music bootlegs I've got. I would be sad if they disappeared forever, and it seems like none of the popular torrents have much in the way of 90s band bootlegs. I'm surprised--I would think everyone would digitize everything! Anyhoo...

[raggedrobin]

P.S. I notice a bazillion complaints on the handy transfer gadgets on Amazon.com - issues like sync, and taking a bazillion years to copy an hour of footage.

I know my rig is better than the average computer. Should I give it a try and see if the issue is that they all have weak computers?

I mean, $50 is not a lot to pay to see I can get results I'm satisfied with...

But it sounds like I still have to start with a great VCR as the backbone of what I'm doing.

This posting on ebay is on the list of great VCRs. What's the highest price for this thing that you guys think is reasonable?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-VHS-Recorder-Player-Time-Scan-HR-S7600U-FS14684-/370577961...item56482af13e

[themaster1]

Btw, the commercial tapes I have that I want to digitize are, surprisingly, things which have never been released digital. I know, almost everything has at this point...

The main thing I am interested in transferring intact are some non-great-quality live music bootlegs I've got. I would be sad if they disappeared forever, and it seems like none of the popular torrents have much in the way of 90s band bootlegs. I'm surprised--I would think everyone would digitize everything! Anyhoo...

Which artists, songs , concerts are we talking about here ?

[raggedrobin]

Nobody anybody's really heard of, but they matter to me. Small folk band called Jabbering Trout.

[sanlyn]

Holy schnizz, that is a cheap hard drive!

That link isn't a hard drive. It's just the enclosure and cooling fan . You put your drive of choice into it, and you can take drives in and out if necessary. Most ready-assembled hard drive units have no cooling mechanism -- expect them to fail early, especially if used often .

Btw, the commercial tapes I have that I want to digitize are, surprisingly, things which have never been released digital. I know, almost everything has at this point...

The main thing I am interested in transferring intact are some non-great-quality live music bootlegs I've got. I would be sad if they disappeared forever, and it seems like none of the popular torrents have much in the way of 90s band bootlegs. I'm surprised--I would think everyone would digitize everything! Anyhoo...

The trick of using a DVD recorder as tbc pass-thru has allowed me to capture many retail tapes (and even DVD), with no problem so far. Sooner or later I'll hit upon something that refuses to record, but it's worked OK so far. The Toshiba and Magnavox DVD recorders being sold today aren't all that great, but their tbc circuits do work.

[sanlyn]

P.S. I notice a bazillion complaints on the handy transfer gadgets on Amazon.com - issues like sync, and taking a bazillion years to copy an hour of footage.

A bazillion years? Take some of those complaints with a grain of salt; if you have a VHS tape with 6 hours of video on it, it'll take at least 6 hours to play the tape and capture it no matter how you do it.

The old AllInWOnder line of ATI AGP cards is very hard to come by, but the X-series used PCIe. There's always the TV tuners from the 600 to 700 series, those are found frequently. I doubt you'll find them on Amazon. The ATI AIW Radeon 7500 and 9600 series often shows up on eBay, sometimes without the connection dongle (those are sold as well, and non-used accessories are also available). You seldom see the remotes for those units (you wouldn't use the remote anyway). Don't even discount the 64MB 7500 series -- you wouldn't play high-speed games with one, but I've been using it to capture and view on an HD monitor for years. You find legacy drivers on the AMD website (AMD now owns ATI).

But it sounds like I still have to start with a great VCR as the backbone of what I'm doing.

This posting on ebay is on the list of great VCRs. What's the highest price for this thing that you guys think is reasonable?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-VHS-Recorder-Player-Time-Scan-HR-S7600U-FS14684-/370577961...item56482af13e

I managed to burn up three 7600's off eBay in short order. The first one lasted only a week. They originally sold for about $100 less than JVC's other "big guys", but I think they output a cleaner image than JVC's heavier units -- still, the 7600 wasn't cheap. The difference was a smaller digital processor and a lighter tape drive. It had much in common with most JVC's, including choking on damaged tape, poor slow-speed playback, and a habit of damaging tapes permanently. Biggest problem with JVC today is that JVC discontinued VCR parts support years ago, and you can't navigate some necessary menu items without the JVC remote.

Many will contend the JVC's are overrated (I agree). Panasonic, SONY, Toshiba, and Mitsubishi were more popular, especially as the VCR era was wearing down in the late 90's. But these machines are 10 to 20 years old now (the 7600 came out around 1998 or so). Panasonic made millions of 8000-series and 9000-series. Watch out for the professional series Panny and SONY, however; they were around $1000 - $1500 retail new, but that was a long time ago. A set of replacement heads for these dudes is still available from Panasonic (around $400 for a 4-head replacement set, plus labor).

You had all these invaluable tapes around, but what happened to your VCR?

[MOVIEGEEK]

If you need a VHS player I would recommend a combo recorder such as these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&Ntt=VHS+To+DVD+Recorder&A=endecaSea...tialSearch=yes

[raggedrobin]

We at GoPhoto charge $19.95 per tape to convert video to DVD

Hi GoPhoto, and thanks for your response!

Do you charge the same for EP as for SP?

[raggedrobin]

If you need a VHS player I would recommend a combo recorder such as these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&Ntt=VHS+To+DVD+Recorder&A=endecaSea...tialSearch=yes

I should just get one of these and be done with it, shouldn't I?

The part where I was getting ready to buy a VCR from the list of top VCRs, but then maybe it's kind of not a great VCR, was a little beyond my mental readiness for this project.

[sanlyn]

If you need a VHS player I would recommend a combo recorder such as these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&Ntt=VHS+To+DVD+Recorder&A=endecaSea...tialSearch=yes

I should just get one of these and be done with it, shouldn't I?

The part where I was getting ready to buy a VCR from the list of top VCRs, but then maybe it's kind of not a great VCR, was a little beyond my mental readiness for this project.

Most of those old "legacy" VCR's are in pretty poor shape by now. For the link at BH Photo (a very good dealer, by the way), you can kill two birds with one stone: the Toshiba and Magnavox units have a VCR along with built-in line tbc you can use for pass-thru. I don't know about the Panasonic pictured, it might or might not have a tbc that can be used that way - some other members more familiar with the Panny unit might have more info.

[raggedrobin]

Okay, cool. So I found a Toshiba DVR670 on Craigslist nearby for just $130, brand new in the box. So that seems like a great deal.

I guess since that actually copies on its own, my next order of business is to see if copying just using that is enough to satisfy me... right?

Then if it doesn't, what are the steps?

1) Get a video capture card
2) Get some codecs
3) Get good capturing software
4) hook up the VCR to the capture card and start trying to copy?

Is that right?

[MOVIEGEEK]

Just buy a combo recorder and burn it as DVD+VR, that way you can edit on disc. Make sure to finalize the disc when you are done so you can rip it to your PC. You can also burn as DVD-Video if no editing is needed. If you want to edit a DVD+VR disc on a XP PC you need UDF Reader.

[sanlyn]

Just buy a combo recorder and burn it as DVD+VR, that way you can edit on disc. Make sure to finalize the disc when you are done so you can rip it to your PC. You can also burn as DVD-Video if no editing is needed. If you want to edit a DVD+VR disc on a XP PC you need UDF Reader.

Mm, I think the point is that recording old, faded, damaged, noisy tape directly to MPEG lossy compression before cleanup is what we're trying to avoid.

[raggedrobin]

So, I bought the Toshiba DVR670. DVD-Rs are on the way.

Am I understanding right that the resulting DVDs will not be lossless? Can I rip them to my computer and even have a video file of the same quality as the one on the DVD?

[sanlyn]

So, I bought the Toshiba DVR670. DVD-Rs are on the way.

Am I understanding right that the resulting DVDs will not be lossless? Can I rip them to my computer and even have a video file of the same quality as the one on the DVD?

The Toshiba DVR670 is a DVD recorder. It records to lossy compressed MPEG2/DVD standard. It has a built-in line-tbc that can be used as a pass-thru tbc. The VCR inside is passable, certainly not the playback quality of a prime VCR; no combo unit made today has a tape player that can match VCR's of the late 1990's. But you can play a tape in it and record to lossy DVD or use its s-video output to record in lossless AVI to your PC. The machine will not record copy-protected tapes from its internal VCR.

[raggedrobin]

OK. Trying out a DVR now.

So, do I run the S-Video cable directly from the VCR to a Capture Card, run capture software with proper codecs and see my results?

[sanlyn]

Are you copying a DVR to your PC? IS this is a DVD that you recorded on the Toshiba? If so, you're wasting your time and lowering quality by recording a second time. If you want to copy that home-made DVD to your PC, but for what purpose? It's already a compressed video. Recording it to your PC just adds another lower-quality level of more lossy compression by the time you've re-processed it on your computer -- which is why most people looking for quality would record from tape to AVI in the first place, and then clean up and encode only once.

If you just want a copy of the DVD video on your PC, finalize the home-made DVD in your Toshiba machine. Then put the DVD into your PC's optical drive, navigate to the VIDEO_TS folder on the DVD, and copy the VOB files with names like "VIDEO_01_x.VOB". There will be at least one, probably more if it's not a very short video. Each "VIDEO_01_x.VOB" will be 1-GB or less. The VOB's have the video and audio for your movie. You can change the filename extension from *.VOB to *.MPG, then join them with software to have the entire movie in one MPEG file. There are free MPEG/VOB joiners and editors in the Tools section of videohelp.

If you recorded from tape directly to DVD and intend to clean up the results in your PC, you're in for some heavy-duty work. Tape noise and color and luma level problems are extremely difficult to correct after a video has gone into lossy digital compression.

[raggedrobin]

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. My apologies. I understand that simply using the Toshiba to burn DVD-Rs is a separate route from using the computer to do capture.

I was just asking what the equipment route would be if I was going from the Toshiba VHS through S-video to a capture card instead.

[sanlyn]

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. My apologies. I understand that simply using the Toshiba to burn DVD-Rs is a separate route from using the computer to do capture.

My apologies, too . Even while I posted that answer I was saying to myself, no, they couldn't mean doing it that way.

s-video from Toshiba's output to the cap card's input. Don't forget: you need audio cables, too. S-video wire is video-only.

If you acquire or use an outboard VCR instead of the built-in job (an older standalone VCR in good shape will give better tape playback), you can hook it up this way: (a) External VCR with composite or svideo output -> (b) Toshiba composite or svideo input -> (c) Toshiba s-video output -> (d) capture device. Note that you can let the Toshiba convert the input to s-video, their converter is pretty good. Toshiba should also have an input y/c noise filter that you can enable to reduce dot crawl, etc., on composite input. Again, don't forget audio cables. Using this hookup, if you find yourself with a copy-protected tape that gives capture problems, you'd need a full-frame TBC in the circuit between the Toshiba output and the capture device input. Always use a full-frame tbc after processing with a line-tbc. Otherwise the full-frame unit will make corrections that render the line-tbc mostly useless.

[raggedrobin]

Thank you so much, O video god! A very handy, functional guide.

I feel like my videos are looking pretty good in this Toshiba, actually, so I'm not sure I need to buy another VCR or feed it through a TBC, but I'll wait and see the results, I s'pose.

The videos are old but not super old, so they seem to not have really deteriorated. But maybe I'm daft. It's hard to tell with them playing on such a huge screen, the video quality on a huge screen makes them look very surreal.

Once I get some kind of capture card and try to figger more out, I'll report back... thanks again!