Upscaling and proper SD DVDs (704x480/576i)

[gaelsano]

I would do trial in a store but given my location and the nature of showrooms here, I can't. Whatever I order will be through the internet. I appreciate any help here.

I can't stand improper ratios and scaling. I can notice it very easily. I know that non-Hollywood DVDs in standard definition (usually analog or DV sourced) will use 704 horizontal pixels with 8 pixels of padding left and right (704+8+8=720). BBC DVDs follow the protocol well. Goldeneye (American release) was one of the few correct film DVDs. Both had their 16 pixels of padding cut off on DVD players via component for me years ago. Stretched properly and all that. (10:11 or 40:33)

I'm looking to get a universal hardware player region wise and dvd/blu-ray compatible.

If I use the 1080p upscaler via component or hdmi, what are the results (respectively)? Do DVD component upscalers, DVD HDMI upscalers, Blu-ray component upscalers and Blu-ray HDMI upscalers behave differently?

Software video players always show all 720 horizontal pixels with limited cropping options so that DVDs like Goldeneye are not stretched enough and get the thin pillars at the sides on a 16:9 TV. Worse yet, you get garbage pixels showing! Analog sources had a gradual cutoff to black. These "wobbly" edges are bothersome and not meant to be seen; they are just smoothing out the analog output signals so you don't get ringing from a sharp transition to blacker than black (Y=0).

What's the deal? Do upscaling players do the non-standard thing of showing all 720x480 pixels on Standard Definition content. Do they copy the Hollywood DVDs and software video players that are often ignorant of protocol? I'm not going to use HDMI for DVDs if I have to deal with wrong aspect ratios and possibly non-black padding pixels.

Help me spend the money carefully.

PS: Don't recommend "overscan" modes. That ends up cutting off the top and bottom and zooms in. That causes rescaling distortion, loss of vertical picture, and does not fix the aspect ratio problem (not sufficiently widened on playback).

[Cornucopia]

You can know when a circle is no longer a circle, but is a 2% wider (or narrower) oval?

Somehow, I don't think so. That's why the whole 720 vs. 704 difference is really a non-starter - people can't really tell. And the engineers that make the chips/software used in players & scalers know this.

...and Overscan is still a fact of life for most displays. The pro shooters know this, so nothing "important" is shot there. You don't really have to get worked up about it...

Scott

[gaelsano]

I can tell the difference and it annoys me the way that PAL DVDs sped up audio bothers some people.

It does matter because not everything overscans, and like I said, I don't want things squished horizontally on actual, proper DVDs or deal with junk pixels for certain films which do have it (I own North by Northwest). If the player upscale according to Rec.601 I could just use HDMI with a computer monitor and not bother with an HDTV. However, if it just stretches 720 horizontal pixels to 1920 horizontally, that's a no-go.

I know what I like and I just want to get what will make me happy. If you can't help, then please don't try to dissuade me. If someone came to a fashion forum and asked if the Withersby belts were made from polished on both sides or just the front, would say it doesn't matter? (For the record, leather belts that are only smooth on side tend not to hold up as well.)

I wasn't complaining about overscan itself. I was saying, I don't want to use *additional* overscan or zoom on a TV or monitor to hide the junk pixels on the sides. I'm not going to cause further damage to a standard definition image by applying zoom to hide pixels that the DVD/Blu-ray player was too dumb to crop in the first place.

[jagabo]

I know that non-Hollywood DVDs in standard definition (usually analog or DV sourced) will use 704 horizontal pixels with 8 pixels of padding left and right (704+8+8=720).

That's the BT.601 spec. The DVD spec refers to the MPEG 2 spec for aspect ratios. The MPEG 2 spec is very clear: the entire 720x480 or 720x576 frame contains the 4:3 or 16:9 picture. This difference between these two specs is largely ignored by commercial DVDs. Some use one, some the other.

[gaelsano]

[QUOTE=jagabo;2132951]

This difference between these two specs is largely ignored by commercial DVDs. Some use one, some the other. Get over it.

I know that. I'm asking about the hardware players. You don't have to tell me to get over it. I'd rather have a DVD/Blu-ray player that crops to 704x480 and lose some picture on Hollywood DVDs that fill all 720 pixels. The reason being that is that Hollywood films usually get a Blu-Ray re-release. Older titles and analog-sourced DVDs do not get re-releases on Blu-Ray. Older titles are often shown in ITU Rec.601 pixels anyway.

If I want to save money and use a computer monitor with HDMI then it does matter. It'd save me money if I knew beforehand. I have to do some electronics shopping anyway and I'd save money on the player and put that cash towards a TV if I have to buy one. If there is a hardware player that crops to 704x480 on playback via HDMI then I'd like to get that one and not buy a TV with analog inputs and overscan.

[jagabo]

I think you'll find all upscaling players scale the entire frame because that's what the spec says to do.