Aspect ratio problems, please help!

[phdutton]

Hi guys,
I'm trying to rip my DVD's, to put them on my network drive. All I want is the straight MPEG2 rip, no recoding or conversions.
Seems simple. Using DVD Decrypter I started on a TV Series shot in 4:3. All worked fine, ripped all the episodes off the discs, put them on the NAS any my PS3 played them back perfectly.
The problem comes when I try and rip something in 16:9. The file rips as normal, but then does not play back at the right aspect ratio. It plays in 2.35:1, so squashing the picture vertically. I have tried DVD Patcher and ReStream to look at the file data, both report that the file is in 16:9. The only way it plays back right is through VLC, everything else (PS3, Windows Media Player, and Media Player Classic) all play it back squashed.

Please help! This seems like a simple task, which is becoming very difficult!!
Thanks.

[edDV]

The problem comes when I try and rip something in 16:9. The file rips as normal, but then does not play back at the right aspect ratio. It plays in 2.35:1, so squashing the picture vertically.

Yes and?

Isn't this what it is supposed to do?

[phdutton]

The problem comes when I try and rip something in 16:9. The file rips as normal, but then does not play back at the right aspect ratio. It plays in 2.35:1, so squashing the picture vertically.

Yes and?

Isn't this what it is supposed to do?

No, I'm trying to rip full screen 16:9, but its playing back as full screen 2.35:1. So everyone is short and fat.

[edDV]

So your DVD's are 16:9 like SNL? Or CSI? But not movies?

All my 16:9 series play 16:9.

[jagabo]

What edDV is getting at is that most movies are wider than 16:9 (2.35:1 for example) and should have black bars top and bottom on a 16:9 screen. Also many computer monitors (and some HDTVs) have 16:10 screens not 16:9. So even 16:9 material should have black bars top and bottom.

[phdutton]

I know what the difference is. I'm talking about full frame 16:9, TV shows at the moment. Not done any 2.35:1 movies, which I know are put in a 16:9 frame with letterboxing, yet. But what is in the picture is irrelevant. I'm ripping a DVD which on a 16:9 TV fills the screen, yet the rip plays back at a much more narrow aspect ratio.

[edDV]

I know what the difference is. I'm talking about full frame 16:9, TV shows at the moment. Not done any 2.35:1 movies, which I know are put in a 16:9 frame with letterboxing, yet. But what is in the picture is irrelevant. I'm ripping a DVD which on a 16:9 TV fills the screen, yet the rip plays back at a much more narrow aspect ratio.

The problem is your player/tv or the original disk encoding.

If you play the original DVD, does it play 16:9?

[phdutton]

The discs are all good, commercial BBC DVD's, have played without flaw for years. So we can eliminate that one.
The player, I don't see how it can be, again. But as I said, VLC plays back ok. But I'm using Windows Media Player, and the PlayStation3, which play back other similar files, again without flaw. I'm only having issues with these rips....!
Anyone?

[edDV]

The discs are all good, commercial BBC DVD's, have played without flaw for years. So we can eliminate that one.
The player, I don't see how it can be, again. But as I said, VLC plays back ok. But I'm using Windows Media Player, and the PlayStation3, which play back other similar files, again without flaw. I'm only having issues with these rips....!
Anyone?

Your evidence seems to show no problems with the DVD.

Are you in NTSC or PAL land? I can't speak for the PS3 I don't have one.

[guns1inger]

Post a mediainfor text view of a couepl of the problem files

[phdutton]

I'm in the UK, all PAL. The PS3 is playing back 4:3 MPEG2 files ripped from similar DVD's without problem, as well as many other video types.

@guns1inger Post what?

[jagabo]

Post what MediaInfo says about your files.

Are you playing full IFO/VOB rips? Or just the VOB files or MPG files? Sometimes the IFO files override the aspect ratio that's flagged in the VOB files. Ie, the IFO file may tell the player to play the video 16:9 even though the VOB files are flagged 4:3. If the IFO files aren't preset the VOB files will play with the wrong aspect ratio.

[phdutton]

I've tried it with and without the IFO files, doesn't seem to make any difference.
I've tried playing the VOB which DVD Decrypter throws out in IFO mode, and remuxing that into an MPEG file, both look the same.

OK, MediaInfo says its 2.35:1:

ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Duration : 28mn 17s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 745 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 300 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.554
Stream size : 1.13 GiB (95%)


However if I open the same file while on the disc, I get this.....

ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Duration : 23mn 23s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 789 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.558
Stream size : 968 MiB (95%)

[phdutton]

Sorry, its not the same file on the disc, its a different length, but its a different episode on the same disc, so the same.

[manono]

I'm going to assume that the DVD plays fine in a standalone DVD player. Is that correct?

My guess is that the VOBs were encoded as 16:9 but it's really a 4:3 DVD and when played on a standalone DVD player it's the IFOs that are used to determine the DAR while often software players get the information from the VOBs.

One way to confirm (or disprove) that theory is to open the DVD in PGCEdit , right-click on an episode, and then hit 'Domain Streams Attributes'. Check what it says about the Video. If it says 4:3, then there's your answer.

If you insist on playing the DVD using software that gets it wrong, you'll have to patch the VOBs to 4:3 using DVD Patcher.

I could be wrong about all this, but it does explain your problem.

[phdutton]

@ manono
Thanks. Unfortunately as you can see from the screen shot, your theory isn't right. You are right in saying that the DVD plays fine in both stand alone players, and the very same software on my laptop which is playing it wrong once its ripped.
Changing to 4:3 in DVD Patcher seems to have worked! It plays back right in WMP now, will have to check it on the PS3, but fingers crossed!

Thanks!!

[manono]

PGCEdit shows it as being 16:9 but patching the VOBs to 4:3 worked? I sure didn't expect that to happen. But congratulations for going ahead with the patching anyway to solve your problem.

r0lZ (PGCEdit developer), was I wrong about PGCEdit showing what the IFOs say about the DAR, rather than the VOBs? And if not, why does it play correctly in a standalone DVD player if both the IFOs and the VOBs are 16:9? Is there some other part of the IFOs or in PGCEdit where we can see what DAR the standalone DVD players use?

[guns1inger]

2.35:1 is not a standard aspect ratio for mpeg-2 video. mpeg-2 video supports 4:3, 16:9 and 2.21:1. I don't know how you managed to get a 2.36 AR set when the disc source clearly shows 16:9.

[Alex_ander]

It plays back right in WMP now

Do you play separate VOBs (after DVDPatcher)? Unless you correct ifo's (PGCEdit or DVDRemake), nothing will change for DVD AR, ifo's have priority in a hardware DVD player (not sure how PS uses DVD files).
BTW, there is a popular utility IfoAR2WS for changing AR in the opposite direction. It only modifies ifo's and it would never work, if VOB AR correction were necessary for DVD.

[phdutton]

@Alex_ander
By DVDPatcher I've converted it to an mpeg file, which is what I'd like to put on the server.

[Alex_ander]

Then it's OK.

[jagabo]

2.35:1 is not a standard aspect ratio for mpeg-2 video. mpeg-2 video supports 4:3, 16:9 and 2.21:1.

Yes. In fact, it's not even possible for a 720x576 frame to encode 2.35:1 DAR in an MPEG program stream. MPEG can only flag those three display aspect ratios and square pixel (which would be 5:4 DAR in this case). I suspect the video has been remuxed into another container like MP4 that supports PAR/DAR flags at the container level. What does MediaInfo say about the container?