Optimum dimensions so that black bars are avoided

[pooksahib]

Hi. My brain is scrambled right now with all the arithmetic I've been doing on aspect ratios so maybe someone can help me out?


My TV is 16:9 and I have these vids on my PC which are 1280x720, in other words, 16:9. I'm putting these video files on to a DVD for playback through my DVD player (NB I'm NOT burning a conventional DVD, just putting some avi's, mpeg's and mp4's onto disk).


I know that the DVD player can only handle video sizes up to 720x576 so I've been using xmediarecode to convert the files. I specify a width of 720, check the 'keep aspect ratio' box and end up with a video of 720x408 (16:9). I've just done a diskful of these and the videos on the TV have bars top and bottom. Logic tells me that, if the TV screen is 16:9 then the viewable image CAN'T be 16:9 even though the video file is 16:9.


Can anyone tell me why the DVD player couldn't make use of the entire screen?


To get the 16:9 vids to occupy the whole of my 16:9 screen, what should I convert them to? 640x360 maybe? I'm concerned that the smaller the dimension, the poorer the on-screen quality.


Grateful thanks for any guidance.

[Baldrick]

You should convert to 720x576 with 16:9 display aspect ratio. I'm not sure if xmedia supports that. I would instead use a good dvd converter like avstodvd for that instead of xmedia.


edit: As usual didn't I read everything....A 720x408 avi shouldn't have any bigger black borders on 16:9 tv. Are you making an avi or mpg or mp4?

[manono]

And is your player set up to output for a widescreen TV set?

[Cornucopia]

Assuming, since you're in the UK, you've got a PAL DVD player & TV.

First, you need to find out if your player supports the anamorphic flag on raw files (we know it has to WRT regular authored DVDs).

If so, you should encode to 720x576 (or 704x576, remembering that it's usually padded out to 720) specifically with a 16:9 aspect ratio. That means you're NOT going to maintain your original aspect ratio (your original one - 1280x720 - was 16:9 DAR with a 1:1 PAR).
704x576 with 16:9 DAR uses a PAR of 118:81, or ~1.46.

If not, you should try encoding to 1024x576. This is a 16:9 DAR with a 1:1 PAR. This at least gives you the maximum vertical resolution which should match 1:1 with what the player expects to display, so it shouldn't have to interpolate on playback (and lose more visual quality).

If that doesn't work, THEN try encoding to 712x400 (at least 400 is MOD16), also a 16:9 DAR with a 1:1 PAR.

Don't use 720x408. At a 1:1 PAR, that is NOT 16:9 (it should have been 725x408, or 720x405 - and you don't want ODD # lines).

...

I agree with manono, check your player's output settings to make sure it's set for a 16:9 widescreen TV and not 4:3 PnS or 4:3 LB or 4:3 Auto.

Scott

BTW, it's always best to specify the HEIGHT and not the width, as video signals are inherently discreet in their vertical domain (and NOT in their horizontal).

[pooksahib]

Lot's of food for thought there, my thanks to you all. It just reinforces my view that video conversion is a very complex subject and that this is the place to come for help.

You should convert to 720x576 with 16:9 display aspect ratio. I'm not sure if xmedia supports that.
Are you making an avi or mpg or mp4?

I tried stipulating 720x576/16:9 but xmedia crashes. I'm making avi's although mpg's and mp4's are possible.

And is your player set up to output for a widescreen TV set?

Just double checked – it is.

A: you need to find out if your player supports the anamorphic flag on raw files (we know it has to WRT regular authored DVDs).

B:If so, you should encode to 720x576 (or 704x576, remembering that it's usually padded out to 720) specifically with a 16:9 aspect ratio.

C: If not, you should try encoding to 1024x576.

D: If that doesn't work, THEN try encoding to 712x400 (at least 400 is MOD16).

E: Don't use 720x408. At a 1:1 PAR, that is NOT 16:9 (it should have been 725x408, or 720x405 - and you don't want ODD # lines).

A: I don't know how to find out whether it supports anamorphic flag, nothing mentioned in the handbook. What is WRT short for?
B: As mentioned to Baldrick, xmedia seems not to like me specifying 16:9 alongside those ratios.
C: 1024x576 wouldn't work at all, DVD players can only handle up to 720x576. (Remember, I'm not making a conventional DVD, just a DVD disk full of PC files.)
D: Just curious, what is MOD16 all about?
E: Curiosity again, what's an odd # line?


Now then, having gone through all that, I found something out last night. My TV has it's own Aspect Ratio control which is usually set to 'Original'. That's where I have bars top and bottom of my 720x408 videos. But, if I change the telly's AR to Zoom, Cinema Zoom or 16:9, the picture occupies the whole screen with (depending on the AR chosen) only a very minor cut-out from the edges of the image.


So you could say that solves my problem. But I'm still curious as to why there were black bars in the first place. I know Cornucopia has said that 720x408 is not true 16:9 but it's not far off.


Once again, my thanks to you all for the above and for any further thoughts you may have.

[hech54]

putting some avi's, mpeg's and mp4's onto disk - 1024x576 wouldn't work at all, DVD players can only handle up to 720x576. (Remember, I'm not making a conventional DVD, just a DVD disk full of PC files

What player do you have? (make and model number).

[pooksahib]

Hi hech54 - it's a Sony DVP-NS718H.

[Cornucopia]

A: I don't know how to find out whether it supports anamorphic flag, nothing mentioned in the handbook. What is WRT short for?
B: As mentioned to Baldrick, xmedia seems not to like me specifying 16:9 alongside those ratios.
C: 1024x576 wouldn't work at all, DVD players can only handle up to 720x576. (Remember, I'm not making a conventional DVD, just a DVD disk full of PC files.)
D: Just curious, what is MOD16 all about?
E: Curiosity again, what's an odd # line?


Now then, having gone through all that, I found something out last night. My TV has it's own Aspect Ratio control which is usually set to 'Original'. That's where I have bars top and bottom of my 720x408 videos. But, if I change the telly's AR to Zoom, Cinema Zoom or 16:9, the picture occupies the whole screen with (depending on the AR chosen) only a very minor cut-out from the edges of the image.


So you could say that solves my problem. But I'm still curious as to why there were black bars in the first place. I know Cornucopia has said that 720x408 is not true 16:9 but it's not far off.


Once again, my thanks to you all for the above and for any further thoughts you may have.

A. WRT = With Regards To

B. If Xmedia doesn't have that feature and you want it, you'll have to try another app

C. DVD players are only consistent WRT their support of the DVD Authoring spec; otherwise, they are all different with diff chipsets, etc., so it's possible for a chipset to support 1024x576 in an avi or similar container on a data disc

D. Mod16 refers to the need to be able to have you resolution numbers all be evenly divisible by 16 in order to accommodate the block-oriented nature of the vast majority of today's modern video codecs. Without this, codecs will have to guess and fill in bogus info and/or work harder to interpolate to its native capabilities (if 16 doesn't work, try 8, then 4, then 2)

E. Continuing from the previous idea and for the same reasons, the WORST thing you could do would be to choose a resolution with an odd (i.e., not EVEN) number in the vertical dimension (or horizontal for that matter).

HTH,

Scott

[hech54]

Hi hech54 - it's a Sony DVP-NS718H.

Here are the specs for that player:
http://www.sony.co.uk/product/dvd-player/dvpns718hb.cek#pageType=TechnicalSpecs

What makes you think that all of those different types of video files, burned to a DVD as DATA, are going to play in that machine...regardless of what dimensions the file have?

[Cornucopia]

...does play DivX, but not UltraDivX certified. Does play HD jpegs. Does upconvert through HDMI...

pooksahib,
Are you sending the signal out through HDMI or something else? You have to isolate which device(s) is doing what scaling.

Scott

[jagabo]

A: I don't know how to find out whether it supports anamorphic flag, nothing mentioned in the handbook

Try the two files in this post:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/329066-Dar-sar?p=2038905&viewfull=1#post2038905
They should display as 16:9 and fill the screen of a 16:9 HDTV.

[pooksahib]

A. WRT = With Regards To
C. DVD players are only consistent WRT their support of the DVD Authoring spec; otherwise, they are all different with diff chipsets, etc., so it's possible for a chipset to support 1024x576 in an avi or similar container on a data disc
X: Are you sending the signal out through HDMI or something else? You have to isolate which device(s) is doing what scaling.

Thanks for your comprehensive reply there Scott.
A: Ah, didn't realise you were using shorthand. I had to go and find out what HTH meant. It does.
C: Now that's interesting. A member of a different (but very good) forum told me previously “Maximum allowed size on a dvd player is 720 x 576 (assuming PAL dvd-video). Many newer players can upscale to HD resolutions, but the input has to be within the max allowed resolution for dvd-video, even when you are playing avi files.” He seemed to know what he was talking about so I'd no reason to disbelieve him.
X: I use HDMI. No other equipment is on when I'm watching DVD.

A:Here are the specs for that player:
B:What makes you think that all of those different types of video files, burned to a DVD as DATA, are going to play in that machine.

A: Thanks for that, very kind of you.
B: The instruction book has a wee table listing the file types it can handle.

Try the two files in this post: They should display as 16:9 and fill the screen of a 16:9 HDTV.

Thanks, I'll do that when next I've sufficient material to make a disk. If it turns out that my player isn't supporting 'flags' then I'm not too bothered. As mentioned previously, I can get a full screen picture by changing the TV's own Aspect Ratio control from Normal to Zoom.


Incidentally, I've often wondered this – how do you get the link you created to jump to the exact post within all those on that thread?


Once again, my thanks to all.

[jagabo]

A member of a different (but very good) forum told me previously “Maximum allowed size on a dvd player is 720 x 576 (assuming PAL dvd-video). Many newer players can upscale to HD resolutions, but the input has to be within the max allowed resolution for dvd-video, even when you are playing avi files.”

He is correct. There are few DVD players that support sources over 720 pixels wide or 576 pixels tall. Blu-ray players often support larger frame sizes for Divx/Xvid files.

how do you get the link you created to jump to the exact post within all those on that thread?

Each post has a number at the top right corner. That's a link to that particular post. You can right click on it and select "copy link location" (or whatever your browser calls it). Or you can click on it then copy the address out of the browser's address bar.

[RdM642]

without prejudice to the excellent and direct answers above, I would consider your time as a factor here and really trake a look at getting a media player player which can play off of network shares or local usb.
her int eh states streamers can go as low as $40 to $50 (the seagate freeagent theater plus has bounced between $40 and $50 on newegg) and of course HDD space is getting cheaper and cheaper with 2tb internal often available for $80 and external for >$100.

$50 for a player and $60 for a one TB external comes to $110 and would allow you to load up many 5 to 8 GB 720p mkvs ($0.20 to $0.50 in storage space)and watch them at a nice resolution.

So apologies to the OP if your needs are unalterable, but I just thought you might want to consider just how cheap it has gotten to look at alternatives to encoding so low.

[pooksahib]

Thanks, jagabo. And thanks RdM642 for the suggestion. I've never been attracted to streaming though (I read a lot about it when I was putting my mp3 files onto disk). The idea of having my PC switched on while I'm elsewhere listening or watching something just doesn't seem right. In any event, there's a new TV settop box due out the UK later this year called YouView and it will more than likely have the ability to play files such as avi, mpeg etc, maybe even wmv. If it does handle wmv, I'll have no need for conversion apps any more.

[pooksahib]

Friends - I think I've found the perfect app. Following Baldrick's suggestion to try avstodvd (which I did but it seems to miss out the first half second of video) I discovered "AVS Video Converter 7.1". It's not supposed to be free but it's easy to 'get it'. It's terrific, lots of options, easy to use and great results.