Getting the best results from TMPGEnc 2.5 on 2 AVIs

[buddycat]

I’d like a little guidance on trying to convert and burn a DVD quality video from a couple of AVIs using Tempgnc 2.5. Maybe I can’t avoid a lot of noise with the first one because the source is not DVD quality. But here are the specifics when I ran them through G-Spot on the first one:

XVID
378 MB file size
1 hour, 13 minute runtime
X/Y 492 X 272
Video Bitrate: 358 kbs
30 FPS
Aspect= 1:81:1

This is a file converted from a satellite feed, originally. Has this been reduced to computer-viewing size, only? When I started running it through Tempgnc, I had to play around with the settings to make the aspect ratio look correct, but I noticed there’s a lot of block noise. I’m thinking this is a function of the size of file, so putting it up to DVD 720x 480 is going to make it look worse, but I’m not sure all my settings are correct. I played around with the noise reduction filter, which seemed to help somewhat.

I've read some tutorials, but these two files don't exactly meet the scenarios I've been able to adapt from in the past (like for anime)

2nd one:

XVID
1,776 MB file size
2:19 runtime
X/Y= 900 x 500
Aspect= 1:80:1
Video 1652KB bitrate
25 FPS (this could be problematic?)

This second one sounds like it’s more likely to be able to be a decent DVD image, but again, I’m not sure. In certain previews, I have huge black borders. I’m assuming that the X/Y is the original viewing size – blowing it up to 720x480 will be less problematic than the first?

Any advice to make sure my settings are correct, so I can evaluate whether it’s worth putting this file on disc would be appreciated.

[davexnet]

You haven't mentioned any of your settings.
Why don't you try one of the all-in-one programs like DVD Flick ? It handles all this stuff
automatically.

[redwudz]

Yes, 25 fps may be problematic if you convert it to 29.97 NTSC, mostly because of audio sync issues. There are better methods than just using TMPGEnc. For the first video, I would probably convert it to 1/2 D1 at 352 X 480 as upsizing it to 720 X 480 won't improve it any.

But as davexnet mentioned, you might get better results with a All-in-One converter unless you want to learn a lot more about encoding.

[[_chef_]]

I’d like a little guidance on trying to convert and burn a DVD quality video from a couple of AVIs using Tempgnc 2.5. Maybe I can’t avoid a lot of noise with the first one because the source is not DVD quality. But here are the specifics when I ran them through G-Spot on the first one:

XVID
378 MB file size
1 hour, 13 minute runtime
X/Y 492 X 272
Video Bitrate: 358 kbs
30 FPS
Aspect= 1:81:1

This is a file converted from a satellite feed, originally. Has this been reduced to computer-viewing size, only? When I started running it through Tempgnc, I had to play around with the settings to make the aspect ratio look correct, but I noticed there’s a lot of block noise. I’m thinking this is a function of the size of file, so putting it up to DVD 720x 480 is going to make it look worse, but I’m not sure all my settings are correct. I played around with the noise reduction filter, which seemed to help somewhat.

It surely was already cropped, because there is no feeding with such resolution.

[jagabo]

NTSC DVD only supports 720x480, 704x480, 352x480, and 352x240 resolution. So you'll have to convert to one of those resolutions. I would 720x480 or 704x480 for both videos if you can afford the bitrate. TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 can do the resizing and frame rate conversion for you although it's not the best.

[buddycat]

Thanks for the replies. I first tried one of the DVD conversion programs - VSO's DIVX to DVD. While the picture was pretty good, the motion wasn't the smoothest. I'm not sure if that was a function of the anit-virus & Spybot software gettng int he way of rendering, or if it was the software.

Davexnet mentioned settings - I knew I should have posted those, but I was playing with so many settings it would have not been very useful. Sounds like Tempgnc may be getting creaky? I think I might try the DVD Flick first, and see what results I get.

It occured to me after I'd posted that someting coudn't be right, because when I previewed my files in Windows media player, they looked fine, albeit a bit jerky. I guess when I preview it with my Bitcomet previewer, it must use a specific DIVX player, because everything looked great.

In TEMPGenc previewer, it looked awful. So, obviously, I don'thave some settings there quite right. Let me try the DVD Flick first, today, hopefully. I'll report back and let you know how it goes. Thanks, guys.

[buddycat]

Okay, I'm back. Tried DVD Flick. Not bad. Good picture. Sound's off, but I can deal with it. The only thing I notice is that it the motion is not the smoothest. Again - is that a matter of turning off certain background functins? Is there something I can tweak? So far, this is at least encouraging.

[jagabo]

Many programs that convert PAL to NTSC (25 fps to 29.97 fps) simply duplicate every 5th frame. This results in several little jerks every second. If you want smoother playback convert to MPEG 2 at 25 fps with NTSC frame sizes then use DgPulldown to apply pulldown flags. Author the resulting MPG file to DVD.

[buddycat]

This particular one is the 30 fps AVI. It's more of a matter of if something's sitting still, it's fine - but if something moves (especially if the object on screen is sizable), it kind of jitters. Kind of like when you watch somethng on a big screen TV that's not very good at fast motion.

I'll have to check on that other one that''s 25 fps - I haven't attempted it yet. I don'T think it was PAL. Might it be because it came off a DVR?

[jagabo]

This particular one is the 30 fps AVI. It's more of a matter of if something's sitting still, it's fine - but if something moves (especially if the object on screen is sizable), it kind of jitters.

That sounds like the wrong field order. Look for TFF or BFF settings, change from one to the other. Some software calles it Even/Odd, or A/B field order.

I'll have to check on that other one that''s 25 fps - I haven't attempted it yet. I don'T think it was PAL. Might it be because it came off a DVR?

No, DVD recorders record in the native format. PAL DVD recorders record PAL, NTSC recorders record NTSC.

[buddycat]

I don't see that setting. Are we still talking about DVD Flick here? That's what I've been describing.

[jagabo]

We're talking about all MPEG 2 encoding software. I don't use DVD Flick so I can't tell you where the setting is or exactly what it's called. In TMPGEnc Plus it's here:



and here:



The first one tells the encoder what the field order of the source is. The second one tells the encoder to encode the video in interlaced mode (with the same field order as the source).

[buddycat]

Right. I've seeN that. Okay, here's what I have in TEMPGenc as of the last settings I had - I know they're wrong, but hopefully you can recommend the necessary changes: Hmm. Having trouble making the image bigger....






[Attachment 4024 - Click to enlarge]

[buddycat]

Looking at DVD Flick, there doesn't appear to be any settings one can change the encoding - nor the field order. Not sure what a "thread count" refers to, or "Keep intermediate encoded audio and video files". My four format choices are NTSC, PAL, NTSC-FILM and Mixed. Target rate is set to auto.

[davexnet]

To get some progress from this point perhaps you should review the source in Virtualdub one frame at a time. Find a section
with some movement and step through it. Is it progressive or interlaced? Any duplicate frames? Any field blend ? etc,etc.

[buddycat]

Huh boy. That may be mroe than I can deal with. How would I know if it's Interlaced vs. Non? I dont' recall that being in my Gspot scan.

[davexnet]

Look for a comb pattern on the edges of objects during movement. If you suspect it, select view/arrange panes vertically
then video/filter/deinterlace/unfold fields side by side.

Step through one frame at a time. Look at the area where you see the comb pattern in the top frame.
Check to see in the lower deinterlaced fields whether the comb pattern is missing. If so, it's interlaced footage.

The other thing you can do, is to cut out 15 seconds or so and post it to the forum if you'd like a second opinion.

[buddycat]

The second option sounds like a plan. How would I do that? Just export it and upload it like any other file?

[davexnet]

As long as it's less that 20MB you can post it as an attachment to Videohelp.com,
otherwise post it to mediafire.com and put the link in here.

Use Virtualdub. Set video to direct stream copy and set audio to "no audio". Hold down the shift key
and drag the slider to an appropriate start point. Hit the cut in button, at the bottom second from the right.
Drag the slider to the cut out point and hit the button bottom right.
File/save as a new AVI.

[jagabo]

here's what I have in TEMPGenc as of the last settings I had - I know they're wrong, but hopefully you can recommend the necessary changes: Hmm. Having trouble making the image bigger....


[Attachment 4025 - Click to enlarge]

Video Arrange method is set to Center Custom Size with the same size as your source file. That will distort the picture. It should be set to Center Keep Aspect Ratio or Full Screen Keep Aspect Ratio (unless your source isn't square pixel).

A 492x272 AVI file isn't likely to be interlaced. So Video Source Type: Non-Interlace (Progressive) is probably correct and the Field Order setting won't matter.

[buddycat]

Okay. I exported it through Nero - slightly different resutl than just watching it with the Nerovision player. Here, it just looks jerky. This is after I burned a DVD file with DVD Film.

[buddycat]

Figures - didn't work. "Invalid file". It's the proper size, so not sure what happened. Basically, when I pull the DVD file into Nero, rather than blurring slightly, it jumps.

[davexnet]

I though the OP was trying to create an mpeg to the DVD spec; if that's the case you would normally load one of Tmpgenc's
DVD templates and it would set all the fields up. You could then go in to check/tweak it as necessary.

buddycat - are you still trying to upload a clip of the source? Not sure what your two posts above are referring to.

[buddycat]

Yes, sorry. What I meant to say was, I pulled the DVD file that DVD Film created into Nerovision, cut it down to the 15 second clip, export it, and then upload it. I'll have to try again in the next day or two.

[buddycat]

I'm trying a quick encode using Tempgnc's DVD 16:9 template, just as a trial. So far, what I"m seeing is that the resolution won't be great. If it starts from 492 x 272, going up to 720 x 480, I guess I can't expect as sharp a picture (?). That's why I was wondering if the original AVI is supposed to only be watched on a computer - it looks better on my previewer in Bitcomet. I'm also noticing that - at 720 x 480, it looks like the vertical might be slightly streteched.

[davexnet]

Presuming the source is 1:1 pixels (AVI's usually are) Tmpgenc compensates and creates the mpeg dynamically resized
within the 720*480 frame to maintain the correct aspect ratio when viewed on the TV.

Regarding your observation of the relatively low AVI resolution being sized up. Yes, it's not an ideal situation
but if it's just some movie you're going to watch once, you should be able to make it "good enough".

I really can't comment further on this without seeing a sample of the the original AVI.

[jagabo]

I'm trying a quick encode using Tempgnc's DVD 16:9 template, just as a trial. So far, what I"m seeing is that the resolution won't be great. If it starts from 492 x 272, going up to 720 x 480, I guess I can't expect as sharp a picture (?). That's why I was wondering if the original AVI is supposed to only be watched on a computer - it looks better on my previewer in Bitcomet.

If you want to keep it clearer use Video Arrange Method: Center Keep Aspect Ratio. That will give you a small image with a big black border all around it.

I'm also noticing that - at 720 x 480, it looks like the vertical might be slightly streteched.

16:9 DVD uses pixels that are wider than they are tall. TMPGEnc Plus shows them as square pixels so everything will look tall, or horizontally squished. But when your DVD player plays them they will take on the correct aspect ratio.

[buddycat]

Hunh. Interesting point about the display, davxnet.

Well, I really don't want a small picture with huge borders - so it may not be worth my time to convert these. I'll give uploading my clip another shot soon-ish.

[buddycat]

Sorry, I haven't reported back on this guys - broke my ankle on Tuesday, and I'm just now getting back working on the computer. Hope to re-visit this, soon.